ATD10 Double-A Draft

[Know Your Enemy]

D Don Sweeney

 

[Know Your Enemy]

RW Howie Meeker - 3 time Cup champion. http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=13695

 

[VanIslander]

I'm not the only one whose picks aren't looked at!

evilspeaker, seventieslord picked Charlie Sands yesterday.

C/RW Charlie Sands

- Stanley Cup Winner (1939)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1933)
- Top-10 in goals twice (8th-1937, 10th-1938)
- 8th in assists (1940)

 

[Know Your Enemy]

RW Earl Robinson

 

[Know Your Enemy]

D Lubomir Visnovsky

 

[VanIslander]

Unless more is asked for, I'll do just short summary write-ups from here on out, quick to read (might actually get read!):

HC Sparta Praha select the only member of the great Tre Kronor youth line not to be drafted (both Nilsson and Pettersson went in the AAA)...

Lars Erik Lundvall, leader on left wing

- (in pic) Lundvall accepts the trophy on behalf of his team as captain of Frolunda.

- mainstay on Swedish national team for 10 years, winning world championship Gold in 1957 and 1962, Silver in 1963 and 1964 and, Bronze in 1958 and 1965

The number retired were; the number 13 worn by Lars Erik Lundvall, who spent eight seasons with Frölunda, all of them serving as team captain. The number 14 worn by Ronald "Sura Pelle" Pettersson, who spent seven seasons with Frölunda before suffering a career ending injury on December 14, 1967. The duo of Lundvall and Pettersson was one of the reason behind Frölunda's success in the 60's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frölunda_HC

--------------------

HC Sparta Praha selects the only undrafted member of the first great line in Soviet hockey history, the center between Bobrov and Babich

Victor Shuvalov, all-star center

Top Scorer (Goals) 1950
Soviet All Star 1950
Soviet All Star 1951
Soviet All Star 1952
Soviet All Star 1953
Soviet All Star 1954

- scored goals in 6 of the 7 games at the 1954 world championships (finishing second to Bobrov's 8 goals, Babich had 1 goal for a line total of 15 goals in 7 games and the Soviets first ever gold medal in hockey!)

- scored 150 goals in 222 Soviet league games, 40 goals in 51 games on the national team

 

[VanIslander]

HC Sparta Praha next select one of the fastest defensemen in NHL history, a reliable blueliner with great hockey sense and a pretty conservative, positional style

Brett Hedican, speedy, positional defenseman

- 6'2, 210 lbs yet with all-time class wheels
- 1039 NHL games played (and counting) with 294 points and 893 PIM
- has 108 NHL playoff games experience: 7 points in the Canucks '94 Stanley Cup run; 11 points in the Hurricanes Stanley Cup championship.

from The Hockey News:

ASSETS: Has blinding speed and incredible recuperative ability on defense. Is excellent in transition, underrated defensively and a leader.
FLAWS: Isn't great on the power play, since he usually plays it safe on offense. Doesn't use his size enough. Injuries are always a concern.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?730

 

[VanIslander]

HC Sparta Praha selects as its extra blueliner

Jimmy Orlando, tough defenseman and enforcer

Stanley Cup champion (1937, 1943)

1940-41 NHL PIM 99 (1)
1941-42 NHL PIM 111 (2)
1942-43 NHL PIM 99 (1)

... a mean spirited, hard hitting defenseman with the Detroit Red Wings... Aside from his aggressive play, his rarely-shaven face was a recognizable characteristic of Orlando's. And on one night it cost him a lot of blood.

In a game in 1942-43 between the Wings and Toronto Maple Leafs, Orlando unceremoniously thumped Leafs rookie Gaye Stewart. Stewart didn't like it much, and got up and yelled "Why don't you get yourself a shave!"

Orlando didn't say a word, but rather leaned back and hurled a devastating punch at Stewart, knocking him out instantly.

Stewart recovered and later in the game returned to the ice. Soon enough the two collided again. As Stewart raced down on Orlando with the puck, Stewart suddenly forgot about the puck and took a home run swing at Orlando with his stick. The stick connected with Orlando's head, causing much blood to be spilled.

"The only other time I saw more blood was the day I was taken on a tour of the cattle killing floor of an abattoir," said famed writer Jim Coleman.

Orlando recovered from the incident and continued to play until he 1944 when he was arrested by the FBI. He was charged and convicted of draft evasion and falsifying documents suggesting he held an essential war job and therefore was exempt from military service. Orlando avoided jail time by enlisting in the Canadian armed forces.

Once he returned from the war, he stayed in his native Quebec and played in the QSHL with Montreal and Valleyfield.

http://redwingslegends.blogspot.com/2008/01/jimmy-orlando.html

Jimmy Orlando was an enforcer throughout his NHL career. He averaged over 80 PIM's per season, twice posting 99 penalty minutes in a single season in 1941 and again in 1943. He posted 111 Penalty minutes in 1942. He helped the Detroit Red Wings win the Stanley Cup in 1937 and in 1943.

Orlando was also described by legendary Montreal sports writer Mike Farber story as being the spectator who rushed to the aid of NHL hockey commissioner Clarence Campbell when attacked at the Montreal Forum at the start of the Rocket Richard Riot. Orlando was described as having knocked the assailant's teeth out "like Chicklets."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Orlando

 

[Hedberg]

Tucson selects G Bohumil Modry

1947 World Championships Gold Medal (He allowed 10 goals in 7 games with 2 shutouts)
1948 Olympic Silver Medal
1949 World Championships Gold Medal

AGRS.cz:

Bohumil Modrý was unsurpassable when in the gate. In his times he was considered an unmatched goalie. In 1947 and 1949 he played an important part in the Czech team obtaining the gold medals. A short time afterwards he was tried unjustly in a communist trial and sent to prison. The price given to the best player of the league voted for by the players carries his name.

From a post on HFBoards: (http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=149416):

None of the remaining Czechoslovakian players had ever seriously considered defection, although they had quite a few chances to do so. Always, the team had returned without incident from past tournaments. But these facts were not taken into consideration by the Czechoslovak Supreme Court and at 8 p.m. on October 7, 1950 the players were sentenced. Goaltender Bohumil Modry received 15 years in prison, forward Gustav Bubnik, 14 years; forward Stanislav Konopasek, 12 years in prison; Vaclav Rozinak and Vladimir Kobranov, 10 years each. Seven other players were given prison sentences ranging from 8 months to 6 years.

Most of the players spent 5 years in jail, after which their passion for hockey--to say nothing of their lives--was seriously damaged. Modry, for example, who some claim to be the greatest Czechoslovak goalie of all-time, was released from prison at the age of 39 and couldn't go on with his brilliant career. He had been one of the LTC Praha players who made an historic trip to Moscow in 1948 for the first international games against Soviet hockey players. Now he was all but forgotten and labelled as a political criminal. During the 1959 World Championships in Czechoslovakia, nobody from the Czechoslovak Ice Hockey Union would even invite him to watch their games or talk to him. But surprisingly, Soviet coaches Anatoli Tarasov and Arkady Chernyshev did talk to him, and even brought Modry back to their team bus and he sat on the Soviet bench at every game.

In 1963, just a few months after Modry's death, Tarasov and Chernyshev were in Czechoslovakia again and invited Modry's widow Erika to their hotel. She recalled: "I came into the room and saw Tarasov, Chernyshev and couple of high officials from the Czechoslovak Ice Hockey Union. Tarasov introduced me to the officials and said: 'This is Mrs. Modry. Do you know who her husband was? He taught us how to play hockey and we will never forget that."

It still remains uncertain why it was decided that Modry was named as the "main figure" in the potential defection plan--particularly in light of the fact that by 1950 he was no longer a member of the national team--but the official decision that he was the ringleader also profoundly affected 21-year-old Gustav Bubnik. Despite their age difference, he was a close friend of Modry. It was the decision of the court that "Modry influenced the situation through the help of Bubnik." The young star forward was one of the few players who appealed the court decision. On December 22, 1950 the appeal of his 14-year sentence was declined, but Bubnik was able to talk to the court chairman right after that. Bubnik said: "I remember him well. He wasn't afraid to talk to me. He said, 'You were used as an example for all Czechoslovak athletes to show what would happen to them. The decision wasn't made in the courtroom."

 

[Hedberg]

Tucson selects:

D Bob Rouse

1997 Stanley Cup Champion
1998 Stanley Cup Champion

Legends of Hockey:

The principal assets in Rouse's favour were his sturdiness, size and determination and a willingness to play within his limitations. He was the prototypical stay-at-home defender who scored few points while clearing creases like a snowplow.
Rouse played parts of three seasons in Washington, where he continued his steady, tough style of play that would keep him in the NHL.

He joined the Toronto Maple Leafs in 1991 and spent fours seasons with the team. In 1994 Rouse became a free agent, and signed with the Detroit Red Wings who wanted to add a Rouse-like steadiness to their blueline.

D James Stewart

1892 Retroactive Norris
1893 Stanley Cup Champion
1894 Stanley Cup Champion

Hockey Notes:

James Stewart was Allan Cameron's defensive conscience and the first, in modern terms, to act as a second goalie. Stewart held the point position like a rock on those celebrated Montreal AAA squads of Stanley Cup hockey's infancy.

D Bob Plager

Legends of Hockey:

Bob Plager picked up a few games with the Rangers during the mid-sixties between frequent trips to the minors. But when the NHL doubled in size in 1967, the fledgling St. Louis Blues reunited the Plagers on their blueline. By then, Bob Plager was known as 200 pounds of humourous turbulence.

Over the eleven seasons that followed, he terrorized his opponents with hard hits and quick fists. But he also terrorized members of his own organization and the press with his practical jokes and humour known as "Plagerisms".

St. Louis Blues:

If someone tried to take advantage of a teammate, you can bet they would have to answer to Bob Plager before the game ended. To this day, Plager remains a St. Louis sports legend.

“We did anything to protect the goaltender,” recalled Bob Plager. “The greatest time for us was the year we won the Vezina Trophy (in 1969). Glenn Hall and Jacques Plante were in goal and we only allowed 157 goals. That record will probably never be broken. Winning the Vezina was the finest reward anyone could get.”

 

[seventieslord]

Saskatoon's picks - bios to follow tonight:

C Yevgeny (Evgueni, Evgeny, Evgeni) Groshev
Coach Terry Crisp
D Colin White
G Mike Palmateer

 

[seventieslord]

Other notes:

- Dang, I wanted Rouse tomorrow. Did you know he went to six straight conference finals? I am pretty sure that is a record since the year the playoffs started going four rounds. I can't think of any guys who moved from one dynasty to another so I doubt anyone else has more than 5 straight besides Rouse.
- Plager was a guy I was considering as a #7 D. It kinda depended if guys like Rouse got taken or not... which they did... which means I probably wanted Plager too
- James Stewart is a nice pick. I forgot about him!
- Shuvalov is a guy I was almost set on taking in the AAA before going with Guryshev. VI, you know more than me. Did I make the right choice?
- Visnovsky was one of the better offensive D-men left. He ranked quite highly for two seaosons but was out of the top-15 before and since. I was ready to take him on day 2 but took a step back to really research older guys like Cooper and Trapp.
- Earl Robinson was one of the very few guys left with 3 top-20s in goals. Twice made the top-15.
- There is one guy left who has been a top-20 scorer in North American hockey on four occasions. He has never been top-10. Anyone know who it is? He'd make a great pick right now. I don't need him at this point.
- I think it is a major stretch to call Jimmy Orlando a cup winner in 1937 considering he played a handful of games and none in the playoffs. If it was the other way around, sure.
- There are just two post-expansion defensemen who have been top-15 among defensemen in points three times or more. One is practically a footnote in history by now even though he hasn't been retired a decade... great name, though. The other is still active, but struggles physically and in his own end. ES knows who I mean, but do the rest of you? They'd both be OK picks right now.
- I'm working on a 1904-1916 goalscoring analysis, based on both top leagues and other leagues of decent caliber. Results should be interesting and will be posted here. Basically, it is to pimp Harry Smith as the AA MVP but I'm sure it will be informative to all aside from that.

 

[seventieslord]

Most Goals In Organized Hockey, 1904-1914 (Harry Smith's Career)
This list only includes players who excelled in the top leagues of the time, it includes all leagues that existed and have stats available, but obviously to include all players who excelled only in lesser leagues would be both exhaustive and pointless

Name | Games | Goals | GPG
H.Smith | 160 | 342 | 2.14
T.Smith | 141 | 288 | 2.04
N.Lalonde | 120 | 219 | 1.83
E.Russell | 111 | 212 | 1.91
M.Walsh | 89 | 203 | 2.28
B.Ridpath | 118 | 192 | 1.63
D.Pitre | 158 | 181 | 1.15
R.Bowie | 53 | 180 | 3.40
D.Smith | 140 | 171 | 1.22
K.Mallen | 131 | 157 | 1.20
T.Dunderdale | 114 | 156 | 1.37
D.Kerr | 102 | 151 | 1.48
J.Hall | 146 | 147 | 1.01
J.McDonald | 123 | 146 | 1.19
T.Phillips | 63 | 144 | 2.29
H.Hyland | 90 | 139 | 1.54
J.Walker | 112 | 138 | 1.23
**** ****** | 79 | 135 | 1.71
H.Jordan | 54 | 134 | 2.48
J.Malone | 99 | 134 | 1.35

 

[seventieslord]

Most goals only in top-level hockey, 1904-1914
(in each season there was one or two leagues known as the "top" leagues, these were the leagues whose teams owned the cup or frequently challenged for it: CAHL ,FAHL, EC(A)HA, OPHL, CHA, NHA, PCHA - playoffs and cup matches also count)

Name | Games | Goals | GPG
E.Russell | 111 | 212 | 1.91
T.Smith | 91 | 193 | 2.12
N.Lalonde | 93 | 179 | 1.92
M.Walsh | 70 | 166 | 2.37
R.Bowie | 45 | 153 | 3.40
H.Smith | 76 | 151 | 1.99
D.Smith | 126 | 150 | 1.19
J.McDonald | 123 | 146 | 1.19
H.Hyland | 90 | 139 | 1.54
H.Jordan | 54 | 134 | 2.48
J.Malone | 99 | 134 | 1.35
D.Kerr | 73 | 117 | 1.60
F.Glass | 107 | 115 | 1.07
F.McGee | 52 | 113 | 2.17
E.Johnson | 139 | 112 | 0.81
**** ****** | 66 | 107 | 1.62
D.Pitre | 100 | 104 | 1.04
A.Smith | 63 | 100 | 1.59
W.Smaill | 118 | 99 | 0.84
K.Mallen | 81 | 90 | 1.11

Harry Smith is 6th in goals and 6th in GPG during this time. (Blair Russell also had 2.06 GPG but not enough total goals to get in the top-20)

 

[seventieslord]

It's safe to say that going exclusively by the first list, is biased towards Smith, and going exclusively by the second, is biased against him. What if we assign a "value" to goals scored in other leagues? Based on trends I've seen on the league lists for these seasons, and what certain players did in one league versus another, I'm going to say that a goal in an other league is worth 2/3 what a goal in a top league is worth. So if we adjust goals scored based on that factor, we get this:

Name | Games | Goals | GPG
H.Smith | 160 | 278 | 1.74
T.Smith | 141 | 256 | 1.82
E.Russell | 111 | 212 | 1.91
N.Lalonde | 120 | 206 | 1.71
M.Walsh | 89 | 191 | 2.14
R.Bowie | 53 | 171 | 3.23
D.Smith | 140 | 164 | 1.17
B.Ridpath | 118 | 157 | 1.33
D.Pitre | 158 | 155 | 0.98
J.McDonald | 123 | 146 | 1.19
D.Kerr | 102 | 140 | 1.37
H.Hyland | 90 | 139 | 1.54
K.Mallen | 131 | 135 | 1.03
T.Dunderdale | 114 | 134 | 1.18
H.Jordan | 54 | 134 | 2.48
J.Malone | 99 | 134 | 1.35
**** ****** | 79 | 126 | 1.59
J.Hall | 146 | 121 | 0.83
T.Phillips | 63 | 119 | 1.88
F.Glass | 107 | 115 | 1.07

On this (admittedly, imaginary and arbitrary) list, Smith is 1st in goals, and 6th in GPG, which looks about right.

The other leagues were not minor leagues. The leagues back then were scattered everywhere. Each one had some players who could play in the top leagues, and the ones in these charts obviously could. It's not that they weren't good enough; the players were mercenaries and went where they wanted, sometimes multiple times in a season.

Note that Harry Smith is, along with **** ******, the only player who made it to the AA draft on these top-20 lists. Clearly, Harry Smith did enough in all leagues he played in, to show he was one of the greats of his time.

In case you're wondering who **** ****** is, he's the father of a HHOFer.

 

[VanIslander]

seventieslord, please indicate WHICH leagues you include, the details of your tabulations

those numbers mean nothing otherwise....

it looks good...

On this (admittedly, imaginary and arbitrary) list,

imaginary? arbitrary?

if your list is a compilation of the scoring stats of all professional leagues in a given time period then indicate the details of such...

otherwise there is nothing to it unless we take it on faith that you picked the right leagues, the right stats, etc.

CITE YOUR SOURCES

 

[VanIslander]

Shuvalov is a guy I was almost set on taking in the AAA before going with Guryshev. VI, you know more than me. Did I make the right choice?

As I said before, he was on my long list but I didn't have much info on him. Guryshev and Shuvalov each led the Soviet league in gooals once in the pre-1954 period, sandwiched between Bobrov's leading years.

In 1954 Guryshev scored in two of the eight international friendlies leading up to the Soviets' first ever world championships, two goals in each of two games; Shuvalov scored in five of the eight games. In the '54 world championships themselves, Soviets won their first ever Gold, and Guryshev scored 5 goals in the 7 games, Shuvalov scored 7 goals in 7 games. Of course, Shuvalov played on the first line and Guryshev didn't, so the edge in historical importance to this point goes to the higher scoring Shuvalov. But he was playing between Bobrov and Babich whereas who the hell played on Guryshev's line? It sure looks like Guryshev was the more offensive talented pivot and indeed after Shuvalov retired the younger Guryshev went on to lead the Soviet league in goals scored several times. I see Guryshev as like Bullard, more of a finisher than a passer at center, unless more info on him shows more to his game.

Guryshev would be a queston mark and extra forward in the MLD barring more info but a decent goal-scoring starter in the AAA; Shuvalov is known to do the little things right and to work hard, he and Babich the conscience and effort on the Bobrov line, so Shuvalov looks like a good third or fourth liner in the AAA and a great pick up for a depth option in the Double-A.

I sure would like to read more about it all.

 

[seventieslord]

seventieslord, please indicate WHICH leagues you include, the details of your tabulations

those numbers mean nothing otherwise....

it looks good...


imaginary? arbitrary?

if your list is a compilation of the scoring stats of all professional leagues in a given time period then indicate the details of such...

otherwise there is nothing to it unless we take it on faith that you picked the right leagues, the right stats, etc.

CITE YOUR SOURCES

What I mean by imaginary and arbitrary, is that it was based on my assessment of the value of a goal scored in a league other than the very best ones. the first list considers them at par value and the second considers them worthless. the third (imaginary, arbitrary) list tries to find a fair middle ground.

My source is the sihrhockey.org database. I will get you the league info when I come back from bowling.

that's right.... bowling.

As I said before, he was on my long list but I didn't have much info on him. Guryshev and Shuvalov each led the Soviet league in gooals once in the pre-1954 period, sandwiched between Bobrov's leading years.

In 1954 Guryshev scored in two of the eight international friendlies leading up to the Soviets' first ever world championships, two goals in each of two games; Shuvalov scored in five of the eight games. In the '54 world championships themselves, Soviets won their first ever Gold, and Guryshev scored 5 goals in the 7 games, Shuvalov scored 7 goals in 7 games. Of course, Shuvalov played on the first line and Guryshev didn't, so the edge in historical importance to this point goes to the higher scoring Shuvalov. But he was playing between Bobrov and Babich whereas who the hell played on Guryshev's line? It sure looks like Guryshev was the more offensive talented pivot and indeed after Shuvalov retired the younger Guryshev went on to lead the Soviet league in goals scored several times. I see Guryshev as like Bullard, more of a finisher than a passer at center, unless more info on him shows more to his game.

Guryshev would be a queston mark and extra forward in the MLD barring more info but a decent goal-scoring starter in the AAA; Shuvalov is known to do the little things right and to work hard, he and Babich the conscience and effort on the Bobrov line, so Shuvalov looks like a good third or fourth liner in the AAA and a great pick up for a depth option in the Double-A.

I sure would like to read more about it all.

Interesting. If only there was more info to go by. There is no book that I know of, written in English, that would tell us any more about these players. At this point, we probably both know all we ever will.

Groshev was a three-time all-star. though he led the league in goals once, he was not near the top in the other years he was an all-star. This tells me he did the little things well to get recognition. thoughts on that?

 

[VanIslander]

Guryshev was a three-time all-star. though he led the league in goals once, he was not near the top in the other years he was an all-star. This tells me he did the little things well to get recognition. thoughts on that?

(By Groshev I assume you mean Guryshev.) Guryshev was a 3-time all-star, Shuvalov was a 5-time all-star. The Double-A pick looks stellar in comparison to the AAA pick.

Shuvalov is cited as doing the little things well. I don't want to make assumptions about a player's all-around game unless there's evidence for it. It's a question mark.

I don't treat this as a fantasy game, as you know. We are amateur hockey historians, displaced in a galaxy far from the History board home we came from, trying to make our way back home. (Just add Cylons and we've got the hockey odyssey version of BSG)

 

[seventieslord]

(By Groshev I assume you mean Guryshev.) Guryshev was a 3-time all-star, Shuvalov was a 5-time all-star. The Double-A pick looks stellar in comparison to the AAA pick.

Shuvalov is cited as doing the little things well. I don't want to make assumptions about a player's all-around game unless there's evidence for it. It's a question mark.

I don't treat this as a fantasy game, as you know. We are amateur hockey historians, displaced in a galaxy far from the History board home we came from, trying to make our way back home. (Just add Cylons and we've got the hockey odyssey version of BSG)

Nope, I meant Groshev, the guy I picked today. He is the only player left who was a 3-time USSR all-star... and not 2nd or 3rd teams, either. (Guryshev is a four-timer) The only 2-time all-star is a goalie who's never been taken either. Anyway, Groshev is only a one-time goal leader. Guryshev did it four times. On the surface, Groshev didn't look like he could have gotten his three all-star selections based on offense alone aside from the year he led the league. That's what I get out of that, anyway.

I just took a look at my "Kings Of the Ice" book and though it does not have a bio on Groshev (), it has bios for Guryshev and Shuvalov... so we're in luck. Had I been at home with my books when making this pick, I'd have been able to post this stuff earlier. The bios are long and typing is tedious, so I have to just cherrypick the best stuff and tidbits about how they played. Enjoy.

...equally outstanding (as Bobrov and Babich)...Shuvalov became the driving force behind Bobrov's troika...a leader, had strong character...Their relationship wasn't always smooth because Bobrov always demanded that the game be focused on him... he reconciled himself to the fact that Bobrov was the dominant member of the line...his style of play changed acordingly... would get Bobrov and Babich to the opposing team's goal with a series of strategic passes...could be counted on to back up his partners and frequently functioned as an offensive defenseman...a skillful and versatile player... also varied his game in front of the goal...would position himself not right in front of the goal itself but farther back, giving the opportunity to attack and if need be, fall back and take up a defense position...often left unguarded, lost no time taking advantage of that situation...would fire the puck on the fly without bothering to set it up... his stability on ice was a great boon to him... with bowed legs spread wide in a low crouch he could avoid sudden bodychecks... had a number of original techniques, among them his famous slapshot that flew four to six inches above the ice... when Shuvalov played alongside Bobrov at the WC, their scoring performances were virtually equal... had his own views on the game, which is perhaps why he quit so early to take up coaching...

to this day, Guryshev is synonymous with the name Soviet Wings... spearheaded their forward line for 15 years and was the top scorer four times... Tall, well-built and resilient, his superb stickhandling and skaing resulted ina style that was both elegant and strategic. A player of exceptional control, he never resorted to battering ram-style charges or frenzied scuffles for the puck. his specialty was cutting through the confusion with split-second timing and sending the puck into the net... An uncanny instinct for goalscoring and a superb finishing shot were his trump cards, but Guryshev may best be remembered for his unusual slapshot - matched only by ****** ******* and Viktor Shuvalov. With no windup, it was a short, quick slap causing the puck to sail straight through midair like a bullet. Guryshev's control of the stick, holding it with a short grip in an almost horizontal position, enabled him to slap the puck on the fly with amazing speed. Guryshev's strength as a forward and leading goalscorer depended on wingers ***** ***** and ****** *****, who drew opposition defensemen away from Guryshev while feeding passes to him as he positioned hmself near the net. Wings coach ******** ******* consciously built the game around Guryshev's exceptional scoring ability, freeing him from defense duties... the opposition's greatest challenge was to neutralize Guryshev... the strongest and most experienced defensemen were assigned the job, but they were rarely successful... even compared to Bobrov's line, Guryshev's troika chalked up impressive scores during the '55 and '57 WCs. During the 1954 WC game against Canada, it was Guryshev who scored the significant first goal...always remained in control of his game, never losing his cool despite constant attempts to neutralize him. His skill lay in being able to size up the goalie's position and stance, the possibility of the enemy's defense line blocking his shot and the precision of his teammates on the ice with instant precision. Then, with split-second accuracy, Guryshev would take advantage of his opponents confusion to fire the puck into the net...even after his former partners had hung up their skates, Guryshev continued to play and score goals. At age 30, he scored 41, then 36, 32, and 40. Even at 36, Guryshev scored an impressive 19 goals during the 1960-61 season.

When you look at everything on Guryshev's resume, it's quite impressive.

Leaderboard finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4.

Bobrov: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3.

Shuvalov ain't bad either: 1, 1, 2, 2, 4.

 

[seventieslord]

- Rudy Ball sounds familiar. And I think I know why. When I was researching Malecek in MLD9 I think I read a couple quotes that said things like "in Europe, only the great Rudi Ball was comparable to Malecek." - So I think you have a pretty good one there.

I was mistaken on this. It was referring a different as of yet undrafted player who I am now considering.

 

[seventieslord]

C Yevgeny Groshev

Apparently, one of these players is Groshev...

- World Championship Silver (1959)
- Olympic Bronze (1960)
- Russian League Champion (1957)
- Russian League Leading Scorer (1962)
- Russian League All-Star (1959, 1960, 1962)
- Was Also 7th in scoring in 1964
- 10 goals, 18 points in 15 international contests (per SIHR)
- 236 goals in 450 Soviet League Games
- 35th highest all-time Russian Scorer; in the Bobrov Club

Rn. | Player | Nat Team | Euro Cups | National Championships | National Clubs | transcontinental | Total
*1 | Boris Mikhailov | 203 | 25 | 428 | 34 | 6 | 696
*2 | Vladimir Petrov | 189 | 32 | 370 | 15 | 4 | 610
*3 | Vyacheslav Starshinov | 149 | 2 | 406 | 28 | - | 585
*4 | Sergey Makarov | 190 | 59 | 322 | 5 | - | 576
*5 | Aleksander Maltsev | 212 | - | 329 | 16 | 1 | 558
*6 | Valery Kharlamov | 193 | 24 | 293 | 21 | 7 | 538
*7 | Aleksander Yakushev | 145 | 2 | 339 | 25 | 2 | 513
*8 | Anatoly Firsov | 134 | 14 | 345 | 12 | 4 | 509
*9 | Veniamin Aleksandrov | 117 | - | 351 | 22 | - | 490
10 | Vladimir Krutov | 152 | 34 | 288 | 6 | - | 480
11 | Aleksandr Guryshev | 70 | - | 379 | 30 | - | 479
12 | Vladimir Vikulov | 109 | 13 | 283 | 39 | 6 | 450
13 | Helmut Balderis | 72 | 3 | 333 | 19 | - | 427
14 | Sergey Kapustin | 118 | 5 | 278 | 12 | - | 413
15 | Vsevolod Bobrov | 94 | - | 254 | 31 | - | 379
16 | Viktor Shalimov | 66 | 3 | 293 | 17 | - | 379
17 | Nikolay Drozdetsky | 64 | 34 | 253 | 11 | - | 362
18 | Andrey Khomutov | 101 | 43 | 197 | 2 | - | 343
19 | Vyacheslav Bykov | 101 | 28 | 195 | 3 | - | 327
20 | Boris Majorov | 63 | - | 255 | 8 | - | 326
21 | Igor Larionov | 80 | 19 | 204 | 7 | - | 310
22 | Konstantin Loktev | 84 | - | 213 | 8 | - | 305
23 | Aleksander Almetov | 78 | - | 212 | 15 | - | 305
24 | Vladimir Shadrin | 71 | 4 | 214 | 13 | 2 | 304
25 | Viktor Zhluktov | 78 | 13 | 197 | 8 | - | 296
26 | ******* ********* | 3 | - | 263 | 26 | - | 292
27 | ****************** | 41 | - | 244 | 7 | - | 292
28 | Viktor Shuvalov | 40 | - | 222 | 21 | - | 283
29 | Vyacheslav Fetisov | 96 | 28 | 153 | 5 | - | 282
30 | ********* *********** | 28 | 1 | 243 | 7 | - | 279
31 | ********* ******* | 42 | - | 225 | 8 | - | 275
32 | ******** ******** | 26 | - | 239 | 9 | - | 274
33 | ******** *********** | 17 | - | 252 | 4 | - | 273
34 | ********** ********* | 24 | 2 | 212 | 26 | - | 264
35 | Yevgeny Groshev | 12 | - | 236 | 15 | - | 263

Yes, there are seven undrafted players ahead of him on this list, but those seven players have a combined TWO all-star team selections. Groshev alone has THREE. Clearly he was doing something right. As a comparison, Yevgeny Babich was a nine-time all-star and is very highly regarded, though he peaked at 5th in the league in goals. Babich is known as a good all-around player which surely earned him his All-star selections - his offense has little to do with it. I believe this is partially the case with Groshev, although having placed 1st and 7th in the league and doing very well internationally, I believe him to be very strong offensively.

 

[seventieslord]

seventieslord, please indicate WHICH leagues you include, the details of your tabulations

those numbers mean nothing otherwise....

it looks good...


imaginary? arbitrary?

if your list is a compilation of the scoring stats of all professional leagues in a given time period then indicate the details of such...

otherwise there is nothing to it unless we take it on faith that you picked the right leagues, the right stats, etc.

CITE YOUR SOURCES

OK, Back to this:

Top Leagues were:

CAHL (Canadian Amateur Hockey League, 1904 and 1905 in this exercise)
FAHL (Federal Amateur Hockey League, 1904-1907)
EC(A)HA (Eastern Canada (Amateur) Hockey Association, 1906-
OPHL (Ontario Professional Hockey League, 1908-1911)
CHA (Canadian Hockey Association, 1910)
NHA (National Hockey Association, 1910-1914)
PCHA (Pacific Coast Hockey Association, 1912-1914)
Any playoffs of these leagues, or Stanley Cup matches also counted

As for "other" goals, I counted all goals scored in leagues that recorded them. I did not notice any silly numbers skewing anything, as in, a really good player tearing up a really bad league, padding his total.

Some other leagues not considered as strong as the above are:

CAHL-I (Intermediate CAHL)
UOVHL (Upper Ottawa Valley)
SOHA (Senior Ottawa League)
MHL Pro (Manitoba)
TPHL (Temiskaming)
MPHL (Maritime)
IHL (International, American, World's first openly pro league)
NOHL (New ontario)
WPHL (Western Pennsylvania League)
MHL Sr. (Manitoba Senior League)
OCSHL (ottawa senior league)
IPAHU (inter-provincial)
APHL (Alberta Pro league)

There were probably a few others, but I bet about 90% of other goals counted were in these leagues. My general impression about all of these leagues was that they were less than the caliber of the top leagues, but not drastically different. When looking at the league lists, there were always at least a few other recognizable names there.

 

[seventieslord]

Coach Terry Crisp

- Stanley Cup (1989)
- Memorial Cup Finalist (1985)
- 3 Times top-3 in Adams award voting (2nd-1988, 3rd-1989, 3rd-1996)
- OHL Coach Of the Year (1983, 1985)
- Led Calgary to three straight division titles
- Guided Tampa Bay to a .425 win% through first 5 seasons, much better than most expansion franchises, and their first playoff berth (the only one they would have for seven more years)
- 286-267-78 in the regular season (.515)
- 24-19 in the playoffs (.556)
- 326-214-30 in Juniors and Minors (.598)
- One of only 14 people to have won the Cup as both player and head coach

He was named Coach of the Year in the OHA in 1983-84 while with the Soo Greyhounds. Moving back to the NHL, Terry joined the Calgary Flames in 1987-88, and in his second NHL season as a head coach, he guided the Flames to the Stanley Cup. After three seasons in Calgary, Crisp was replaced behind the bench. In 1992-93, he was hired as head coach of the Tampa Bay Lightning. He was head coach from the franchise's inception through October of 1997, coaching 391 games - the most ever by an expansion coach. He also served as the assistant coach of the silver medal-
winning Canadian team at the 1992 Winter Olympic Games in Albertville, France.

It's no wonder then why Terry Crisp is one of the most recognizable names when it comes to the hockey world!

 

[seventieslord]

D Colin White

- Stanley Cup (2000, 2003)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (2001)
- Played 78 playoff games by age 26
- Memorial Cup (1996)
- Has been 3rd or 4th on Devils (NHL's best defensive team) in ice time his entire career, for most years behind only Stevens, Niedermayer, and Rafalski

Is adept at clearing the front of the net and strong in defensive situations. Displays a nice combination of toughness and leadership.

The pride of New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, rugged defenceman Colin White was drafted 49th overall in the 1996 NHL Entry Draft by the New Jersey Devils.

White made his NHL debut during the 1999-00 season. In the playoffs, White played all 23 games and helped the Devils win their second Stanley Cup in franchise history. In 2000-01, he helped lead the Devils to an Atlantic Division title with a club-record 48 wins and 111 points and during the playoffs, and helped the Devils win their second straight Prince of Wales Trophy before losing to the Avalanche in the Stanley Cup finals. After a solid rookie season, White was recognized as a member of the NHL's All-Rookie Team.

In only his fourth NHL season with the Devils in 2002-03, White reached the Stanley Cup finals for the third time in his career and was a pillar on the Devils blue line as they eliminated the upstart Mighty Ducks of Anaheim in seven games.