ATD10 Double-A Draft

[seventieslord]

Nice pick ES, that's who I was referring to eariler. I think you guys have absolutely picked hockey history clean now.

Maniago is great. I could have easily taken him over Simmons. Neither one deserves to slip past the end of this draft.

Maniago, despite being 15-21 in the playoffs, actually has a career playoff sv% of .916.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Naah, that would be silly. The goal should always be to select the next best players. With that said, you'll find that the further down you go, the more significant european, international, minor league, and junior accomplishments become.

I don't know. Speaking for me personally, I've done a lot of research on the senior and WHL levels of hockey. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I'd love to put my knowledge to the test.

 

[seventieslord]

I don't know. Speaking for me personally, I've done a lot of research on the senior and WHL levels of hockey. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I'd love to put my knowledge to the test.

What I mean is, by the time we're 1300 picks deep, we're left with mostly middling NHL players, and the resumes of the players we do select are "beefed up" with senior, international, and minor league accomplishments. In a lot of cases they are much more attractive players than NHL-only guys who are left.

Still, I wouldn't be in favour of just "cutting off" the pipeline of players from the NHL to the ATD. I always want to get the next best player, and quite often he played significant hockey somewhere other than the NHL, just like 11 of the 24 selections I made in this AA draft.

I see that a Top-1000 thread has been created. Come on in and give us some examples of players who would be good picks right now, with little to no NHL experience. They are out there.

 

[seventieslord]

VI - let's not be hasty with the playoffs if at all possible. I have had a really busy weekend, my body and head ache from two hockey games, and my opponent has clearly not been able to make their arguments either. There is time to make the semis and finals really good. Maybe look at Wednesday being voting day?

 

[VanIslander]

Congratulations guys! We did it.

ATD10-Double-A Draft team picks:


Montreal Shamrocks

coaches: Bob Hartley, Joel Quenneville

Errol Thompson- Chris Bordeleau - Alexander Bodunov
Dmitri Khristich - Joe Juneau - Willy Lindstrom
Bob Berry - Orest Kindrachuk - John Anderson
Hank Goldup - Joe Murphy - Mel Hill
Olli Jokinen

Marcus Ragnarsson - Tom Bladon
Ilya Byakin - Yuri Shatalov
Irek Gimayev - Oleg Zaïtsev
Dmitri Ukolov

Tommy Salo
Guy Hebert


HC Sparta Praha

coach: Ted Nolan

Lars Erik Lundvall - Normie Himes - Yuri Lebedev
Kelly Miller – Mike Bullard - Mark Johnson
Bob Kelly – Viktor Shuvalov – Rudi Ball
Fredrik Modin - Mike Fisher - Tom Fitzgerald
Sylvain Turgeon

Alexey Gusarov - Igor Romishevsky
Alfred Kuchevsky - Genrikh Sidorenkov
Brett Hedican - Bert Marshall
Sergei Starikov, Jimmy Orlando

Dan Bouchard
Jake Forbes


Tucson Rustlers

coach: John Tortorella

Morris Lukowich - Guy Chouinard - Billy Barlow
Shirley Davidson - Mickey Roach - Wayne Babych
Buzz Boll - Murray Craven - Yevgeny Mishakov
Travis Moen - Darryl Sutter - Rich Sutter
Jaroslav Drobny, Terry Ruskowski

Mike Green - James Stewart
Igor Kravchuk - Bob Rouse
Bob Plager - Percy Traub
Kevin McCarthy

Bohumil Modry
Leif Holmqvist


Saskatoon Sheiks

coach: Terry Crisp

Real Chevrefils - Harry Smith - Jimmy Herberts
Charles Tobin - Daniel Briere - Ran McDonald
Shawn Burr - Charlie Sands - Don Saleski
Bob Errey - Yevgeny Groshev - Mike Murphy
Stanislav Petukhov, Viktor Yakushev

Leo Reise Sr. - Joe Cooper
Bob Trapp - Mike McEwen
Colin White - Bill Brydge
Duke Dukowski

Mike Palmateer
Don Simmons


Vancouver Maroons

coach: Floyd Smith

Yevgeny Mayorov - Jim McFadden - Earl Robinson
Zach Parise - Dan Quinn - Howie Meeker
John Marks- Earl Ingarfield - John McKinnon
Garnet Bailey - Ray Cullen - Mike Grier
Dwight Foster

Rick Simth - Barry Gibbs
Lubomir Visnovsky - Don Sweeney
Jimmy Fowler - Stewart Evans
Billy Stuart

Dwayne Roloson
Cesare Maniago
Byron Dafoe

​

 

[VanIslander]

Now what do we do?

Option 1: Rank regular season standings, have all-star team and have a lightning round followed by 1 vs. 4/5 winner, 2 vs.3

Option 2: Do an Appreciation (rather than assassination) Analysis of each roster, looking at the top-10 picks on each team, the best lines, pairings, goaltending. This involves me as well as you. Takes participation all around.

Option 3: Call it a day. We had a good draft. The rosters are complete. We never said we'd do a playoffs for the Double-A, and its served its purpose. Future drafts can look at our teams on the first page, at the write-ups on the thread for the picks, and use it as they see fit.

Everybody choose an option (or rank them in order of preference) simply by posting here (or by PM if you prefer).

 

[chaosrevolver]

I wouldn't mind doing 2. A couple other drafts going on might confuse myself if there were a playoffs for AA.

I say we do an appreciation and call it a draft.

 

[seventieslord]

I prefer them in 1-2-3 order. My competitive juices are always flowing, what can I say.

I am open to anything, though.

Any reason why we're being so hasty with the AAA playoffs? Can we give it a couple more days? No one has been able to post any arguments and these are two great series.

 

[chaosrevolver]

I prefer them in 1-2-3 order. My competitive juices are always flowing, what can I say.

I am open to anything, though.

Any reason why we're being so hasty with the AAA playoffs? Can we give it a couple more days? No one has been able to post any arguments and these are two great series.

I kinda agree. I would love if we could make voting Wednesday or Thursday.

Would be able to post an argument in my thread if so.

 

[VanIslander]

seventieslord and chaosrevolver have just committed themselves to posting arguments then

there is no hurry if people are willing to post... no one has, hence the moving on....

POST or vote today, time to urinate or get off the pot!

 

[seventieslord]

Post I shall.

...and I don't urinate sitting down unless it's the middle of the night.

 

[VanIslander]

I don't urinate sitting down unless it's the middle of the night.

you're married, so I thought you might

 

[seventieslord]

you're married, so I thought you might

Bravo!

 

[seventieslord]

So what's going on with the AA? Is it going to be 3, 2, or 1. I know only two of us have given our preferences publically... has anyone else?

 

[Hedberg]

I would like to do option 1, but I'm not sure I'd have time for posting arguments as I'm busy writing end of semester essays at the moment. If we started voting after the conclusion of the AAA draft, I could contribute then.

 

[Know Your Enemy]

option 2 for me

 

[seventieslord]

Not that I think this draft is necessarily over, but I thought I would post some post-draft thoughts:

Players/coaches from ATD9 who never got mentioned or drafted after nearly 1400 players/coaches in ATD10/MLD10/AAA10/Top-1000:

LW Donald Brashear
C Guyle Fielder
Coach Warren Strelow
Coach Francois Allaire
Coach Mike Milbury
C Michel Briere
Coach Vsevolod Bobrov


This all makes sense with the exception of Fielder. I'm surprised someone didn't grab him, given his reputation.

Players/coaches from MLD9 who never got mentioned or drafted after nearly 1400 players/coaches in ATD10/MLD10/AAA10/Top-1000:

C Carl Voss
LW Corey Perry
LW Bobby Kromm
D Mika Stromberg
RW John McCreedy
C Shawn Horcoff
D Darryl Sly
D Ted Crowley
C Travis Green
D Barrett Jackman
Coach Mike Buckna
LW Steve Bozek
LW Shawn Antoski
RW Tie Domi
D Jack Lancien
D Steve McCarthy
Coach Guy Carbonneau
Coach Phil Esposito
C Steve Tambellini
Coach Ernie Marleau
C Jordan Staal
G Vesa Toskala

Most of this can be explained. Perry, Stromberg, Crowley, Antoski, Domi, Staal, and Toskala are not draft material and were taken by camperjr, a newbie in his first ever draft. Kromm, McCreedy, Sly, Bozek, Lancien, and McCarthy were taken by shawnmullin in his admirable attempt to build a competitive squad of players with Trail Smoke Eaters and BC ties. Although I am not sure why he didn't take Harry Smith, an excellent (at that level) offensive defenseman who played for Trail for a while. He had great numbers and was on the all-star team nearly everywhere he went.

Players selected in ATD10/MLD10/AAA10 who were never drafted or mentioned in this section before, along with approximate total draft position:

Coach Ivan Hlinka (506)
Coach Jacques Laperriere (672)
Coach Bob Pulford (673)

LW Dubbie Kerr (735)
LW Red Hamill (762)
RW Viktor Shalimov (801)
D Dunc Munro (809)
C/D Skene Ronan (831)
Coach Eddie Gerard (847)
RW Bruce Ridpath (861)
D Murray Henderson (889)
LW Vic Lynn (914)
D Vitezslav Duris (930)
LW/D Jack Marks (946)
Jiri Fischer (947)

LW/RW Lasse Oksanen (965)
C Herb Jordan (977)
RW Jack McDonald (978)
D Sergei Babinov (983)
RW Vlastimil Bubnik (984)
C Clarence McKerrow (987)
D Weldy Young (988)
RW Tony Gingras (995)
D Reg Hamilton (999)
RW Serge Bernier (1006)
LW/C Don Smith (1010)
C Sergei Shepelev (1011)
D Pavel Kubina (1018)
C Nils Nilsson (1021)
D Art Moore (1031)
D Roy Rickey (1032)
LW Wildor Larochelle (1044)
LW Bohuslav Stastny (1045)
D Miroslav Dvorak (1046)
LW Yuri Blinov (1047)
C Jude Drouin (1052)
LW Lorne Henning (1053)
RW Billy Bell (1054)
LW Matti Hagman (1063)
D Pekka Marjamaki (1064)
LW Ted Irvine (1065)
D Brad Marsh (1070)
D Oleg Tverdovsky (1072)
LW Bill Warwick (1073)
C Alexei Guryshev (1079)
G Nokolay Puchkov (1081)
G Peter Lindmark (1092)
D Roland Stoltz (1093)
LW Thomas Vanek (1095)
D Tapio Levo (1096)
C Mikko Koivu (1097)
RW Ken Mallen (1106)
LW Ville Peltonen (1107)
D Lasse Bjorn (1109)
C/D John Mayasich (1112)
LW/C Hib Milks (1113)
D Joe Reekie (1118)
G Urpo Ylonen (1127)
D Petteri Nummelin (1128)
D Niklas Kronwall (1130)
F Robert McDougall (1134)
LW Bep Guidolin (1137)
LW/D Alf Pike (1139)
Coach Jan Starsi (1144)
D Anders Eldebrink (1148)
D Sami Salo (1151)
RW David Vyborny (1152)
D Mark Streit (1154)
LW Armand Mondou (1157)
D Moe Mantha (1158)
Coach Steamer Maxwell (1162)
C Mike Sillinger (1163)
LW/RW/D Jack McIntyre (1165)
RW/D Sami Kapanen (1168)
Coach Kalevi Numminen (1169)
D Tommy Albelin (1170)
C Mika Nieminen (1171)
Coach Barry Trotz (1172)
RW Andrei Lomakin (1173)
Coach Glen Sonmor (1174)

LW Real Chevrefils (1185)
F Billy Barlow (1188)
C Jim McFadden (1196)
LW Zach Parise (1198)
C/RW Charlie Sands (1199)
RW Ran McDonald (1200)
RW Rudi Ball (1206)
C Mickey Roach (1208)
F Shirley Davidson (1209)
D Barry Gibbs (1216)
D Ivan Romishevsky (1218)
D Alfred Kuchevsky (1219)
D Genrikh Sidorenkov (1220)
LW/D/RW Charles Tobin (1221)
D Bob Trapp (1224)
F Yevgeny Mishakov (1228)
LW/RW Alexander Bodunov (1231)
C Dan Quinn (1232)
C Earl Ingarfield (1233)
D Oleg Zaitsev (1234)
RW Earl Robinson (1237)
LW Lars-Erik Lundvall (1239)
C Viktor Shuvalov (1240)
D Bret Hedican (1241)
D Jimmy Orlando (1242)
G Bohumil Modry (1243)
D James Stewart (1245)
C Yevgeny Groshev (1247)
RW Tom Fitzgerald (1252)
C Mike Fisher (1253)
C Jaroslav Drobny (1257)
LW Travis Moen (1259)
D Bill Brydge (1261)
D Percy Traub (1262)
D Billy Stuart (1263)
D Stewart Evans (1264)
D Jimmy Fowler (1265)
D Sergei Starikov (1276)
LW Sylvain Turgeon (1277)
G Leif Holmqvist (1279)
Coach John Tortorella (1281)
C Viktor Yakushev (1282)
RW/D Stanislav Petukhov (1283)
D Duke Dukowski (1284)
Coach Floyd Smith (1286)
RW Phil Roberto (1290)
LW John Marks (1291)
C Dwight Foster (1292)
C Ray Cullen (1293)
D Dmitri Ukolov (1296)


3/673 picks in the ATD were "discoveries" - 0.4%.
12/287 in the MLD - 4.2%
64/216 in the AAA - 29.6%
50/120 in the AA - 41.7%
57/89 mentioned in the top-1000 thread - 64.0%

In the actual drafts, there were a total of 129 "discoveries" - anyone care to scan the list and tell us how many you're responsible for? My number is 15. Gerard, Smith, Guryshev, Reekie, McIntyre, Chevrefils, Sands, McDonald, Tobin, Trapp, Groshev, Brydge, Yakushev, Petukhov, Dukowski. A mini-roster! (without a goalie) - and great shev down the middle.

Gerard

Smith - Guryshev - McDonald
Chevrefils- Groshev - Petukhov
Tobin - Yakushev - Sands

Reekie - Trapp
Brydge - Dukowski
McIntyre

I'll reserve comment on my own, but many of the other discoveries in the MLD were outstanding! They are all superb picks with the exceptions of Henderson, Fischer, and Lynn, who are all decent picks. In the AAA, things went off the board a bit from time to time but every selection was well-backed up. We couldn't have asked for anything more. I am honoured to be a part of this "hockey study group" - you guys taught me so much this time, and I hope you learned from me too.

I think that if we were fortunate enough to have a 16-team MLD and maybe a 12-team AAA draft following ATD11, you would see much fewer discoveries. We went really, really deep this time (see my mini-bios of free agents, I feel they are all better than some of the marginal picks of the MLD, AAA, and AA drafts) and it will be tough to find a player we can really back up, who hasn't yet been selected.

Are we moving in the right direction? Absolutely. Compare the "discoveries" with the list of players from ATD/MLD10 who didn't make it this time, and it's clear that as a group we are getting better and better at identifying the best players and coaches from history and building ultimate fantasy rosters from the best of all-time, then picking through the leftovers for the next best, again and again.



Give yourselves a hand. Especially the hardcores who made it all the way through to the end of the AA draft. For which I still hope there are playoffs.

 

[Triffy]

In the actual drafts, there were a total of 129 "discoveries" - anyone care to scan the list and tell us how many you're responsible for?

I took part only in the AAA draft. I picked 16 players who had never been drafted before. Some of them were modern players so I wouldn't call them discoveries, though. Then again, very few of my players were discoveries for me. I just happened to be the first Finn (?) to participate in these things.

Oksanen-Nilsson-Bubnik
Peltonen-Hagman-Kapanen
Warwick-Koivu-Vyborny

Babinov-Levo
Marjamäki-Nummelin
Salo

Ylönen (goalie)

With Kalevi Numminen behind the bench.

By the way, Hagman was a natural center who just happened to play left wing for the Oilers because of Gretzky and Messier.

 

[Hedberg]

In the actual drafts, there were a total of 129 "discoveries" - anyone care to scan the list and tell us how many you're responsible for?

I picked 15 of them:

LW Yuri Blinov (1047)
LW Thomas Vanek (1095)
F Robert McDougall (1134)
D Anders Eldebrink (1148)
F Billy Barlow (1188)
C Mickey Roach (1208)
F Shirley Davidson (1209)
F Yevgeny Mishakov (1228)
G Bohumil Modry (1243)
D James Stewart (1245)
C Jaroslav Drobny (1257)
LW Travis Moen (1259)
D Percy Traub (1262)
G Leif Holmqvist (1279)
Coach John Tortorella (1281)

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Looks like I can claim 16 discoveries, with a few of them shared with MXD, my co-GM in the MLD.