ATD Chat Thread XV

[seventieslord]

Hey, you're preaching to the choir man

This is the most dominant I've seen Crosby over a 10 game playoff stretch since....hell, probably 09. He's putting the team on his back like never before really and I feel fortunate to be able to witness such greatness as a grown adult vs a youngster when Mario and Wayne were owning the league.

BTW, Crosby also tied Trottier and Lidstrom for 11th all time in playoff scoring at 183 points.

That's a shitload of playoff points for anyone, never mind a guy whose playoff games have all come in the last 11 years.

 

[Iceman]

It's 4 games into round 2 and Guentzel has the 10th most ESP in a playoff since 1997. Only four off the leader (Krejci)

He's scoring so much I'm actually worried he'll get the Smythe over an actual elite player.

Don’t worry, Crosby getting a third was already decided prior to the playoffs.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Gotta give the Caps all the credit in the world. They finally look like a team that has gotten past the mental part of the tournament. I said it before the series even started I thought this was the year for them. They built up so much momentum against Columbus and it carried over to round 2. Pittsburgh just made to many mistakes (Letang was awful) and had no scoring from their bottom 6. Plus Murray wasn't good enough as he has been in the past.

Seriously, congrats to the Caps and their fans. I just have to say, what took you so long?

 

[ImporterExporter]

I think other than the Pens losing a chance at a 3 peat, I'm most disappointed by the fact Crosby and Guentzel were having such elite all time postseasons. Would have been interesting to see how far they took it through 4 rounds. Nobody else on Pittsburgh really stepped up offensively. That was the difference between this year and the past 2.

Crosby (21 points in 12 games) did manage to climb all the way into a tie with Yzerman for 10th all time in playoff points at 185. It only took Stevie 36 more games to reach that number though!

Well, I'm all aboard the Vegas bandwagon now. Would be one of the coolest sports stories in history if they won the whole damn thing.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I hope Ovechkin wins

 

[jarek]

I think other than the Pens losing a chance at a 3 peat, I'm most disappointed by the fact Crosby and Guentzel were having such elite all time postseasons. Would have been interesting to see how far they took it through 4 rounds. Nobody else on Pittsburgh really stepped up offensively. That was the difference between this year and the past 2.

Crosby (21 points in 12 games) did manage to climb all the way into a tie with Yzerman for 10th all time in playoff points at 185. It only took Stevie 36 more games to reach that number though!

Well, I'm all aboard the Vegas bandwagon now. Would be one of the coolest sports stories in history if they won the whole damn thing.

And saddest.

 

[ImporterExporter]

And saddest.

I just don't understand why you hate them so much. It's not like they were gifted some elite or even contending roster to begin with. They're winning with a specific style and incredible team work. It's great for hockey.

 

[jarek]

I just don't understand why you hate them so much. It's not like they were gifted some elite or even contending roster to begin with. They're winning with a specific style and incredible team work. It's great for hockey.

It's hilarious and embarrassing to the rest of the league. All these teams trying so hard to rebuild, and here comes some expansion team with the worst defense I've ever seen from a conference finalist and suddenly they're a cup favourite. It's shameful.

 

[ImporterExporter]

It's hilarious and embarrassing to the rest of the league. All these teams trying so hard to rebuild, and here comes some expansion team with the worst defense I've ever seen from a conference finalist and suddenly they're a cup favourite. It's shameful.

You're so negative these days lol. I mean I know Leafs fans had it tough, but damn, how can anyone not appreciate what is going on in Vegas. On paper they're so far the worst team left and yet there they are. Conference finals. It's fantastic.

 

[jarek]

You're so negative these days lol. I mean I know Leafs fans had it tough, but damn, how can anyone not appreciate what is going on in Vegas. On paper they're so far the worst team left and yet there they are. Conference finals. It's fantastic.

Because it's an expansion team. If an expansion team who had a draft that was widely panned by everyone somehow wins the Stanley Cup, it's a huge indictment on the rest of the league. In a way it would prove BB's point that the NHL just sucks right now.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I hope Ovechkin wins

It's the only thing he needs to fully complete his legacy as a generational talent. I honestly don't even care anymore, as somebody who actively roots against Washington as Pitt fan. Sid and company have 3 titles. His legacy is already secure. If the Caps earn the Cup, all you can do is tip your cap to them and be proud as a hockey fan in general, even if they're rivals. I still hate Tom Wilson though haha.

 

[Theokritos]

Well, I'm all aboard the Vegas bandwagon now. Would be one of the coolest sports stories in history if they won the whole damn thing.

I get this angle, but at the same time I think it raises some serious questions and concerns about the quality of the league as a whole if a team of outcasts and fringe NHLers can just step into the league and become a Cup contender. What and how much are established and above-average NHL teams doing wrong to come up short against them?

 

[jarek]

I get this angle, but at the same time I think it raises some serious questions and concerns about the quality of the league as a whole if a team of outcasts and fringe NHLers can just step into the league and become a Cup contender. What and how much are established and above-average NHL teams doing wrong to come up short against them?

This. So much this.

Vegas winning the cup would be a mockery of the rest of the league.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I mean, there are a couple of angles you could look at that from.

If you're sick of the coverage that the so-called advanced stats revolution has gotten, or if you're a fan of another overachiever who everyone second-guesses (like the Senators last year, or maybe the Blue Jackets?), this whole season could be a welcome spit in the face at anyone who's telling you that they know more than you about how the games are going to turn out, because they didn't predict this, or anything close.

Then, if you're worried that greatness is a mirage, and that hockey in general is a pointless grab bag of posts, shinpads and broken sticks that makes billions of dollars a year from people who believe in it, then Vegas would be very worrying indeed.

There's a middle ground between professional coin-flipping, and a sad Raptors-Cavs series that's both dramatic and compelling, and how you feel about Vegas should depend on which extreme you think the NHL errs toward.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Didn't Scotty Bowman take the expansion blues to the Cup final as well?

I don't get how Vegas has made a mockery of the league at all. They're simply out playing everyone else right now. It's amazing.

 

[jarek]

Didn't Scotty Bowman take the expansion blues to the Cup final as well?

I don't get how Vegas has made a mockery of the league at all. They're simply out playing everyone else right now. It's amazing.

I completely disagree. The fact that some rag tag group made up of the cast offs of other teams can get this far is a huge indictment on the quality of the rest of the league.

I'm not saying that Vegas doesn't deserve their position. Good for them. Shame on the rest of the league, however.

 

[Dreakmur]

Well, they’re a team of 2nd liners. While they don’t have star power, they do have the depth that few other teams can match. I agree that shouldn’t be the best team, but there are other factors contributing to their success.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I've criticized parity for years.I hate parity.I like powerhouses and dynasties, but also Gretzky-like individual offensive domination.Or a Harvey-like stretch of Norrises.

Hockey got cancer roughly around 1997 and died a couple of years after that.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I've criticized parity for years.I hate parity.I like powerhouses and dynasties, but also Gretzky-like individual offensive domination.Or a Harvey-like stretch of Norrises.

Hockey got cancer roughly around 1997 and died a couple of years after that.

But BB, there really hasn't been parity in the salary cap era. The past 10 years has seen the Pens, Hawks and Kings more or less own the league. Which is why I think Jarek is out to lunch here. The league has had near dynasties even with a salary cap. I think the NHL has plenty of talent. Elite, generational talent, which is why I think what Vegas is doing is that damn impressive. They aren't a garbage roster, but they're certainly the weakest of any team left and yet they still win. Why? Because they have a style, they stick to it, and quite frankly they're out playing teams. They're outworking folks and getting supremely great goal tending and team defense.

Vegas doing well is not an indictment on the rest of the league at all IMO. Pittsburgh just won 9 straight playoff series and will surely be back in the thick of it next season. The Hawks won 3 in 6 years. The league is fine, sans a few issues with rules and player punishment. Just my .02

 

[BenchBrawl]

But BB, there really hasn't been parity in the salary cap era. The past 10 years has seen the Pens, Hawks and Kings more or less own the league. Which is why I think Jarek is out to lunch here. The league has had near dynasties even with a salary cap. I think the NHL has plenty of talent. Elite, generational talent, which is why I think what Vegas is doing is that damn impressive. They aren't a garbage roster, but they're certainly the weakest of any team left and yet they still win. Why? Because they have a style, they stick to it, and quite frankly they're out playing teams. They're outworking folks and getting supremely great goal tending and team defense.

Vegas doing well is not an indictment on the rest of the league at all IMO. Pittsburgh just won 9 straight playoff series and will surely be back in the thick of it next season. The Hawks won 3 in 6 years. The league is fine, sans a few issues with rules and player punishment. Just my .02

There's still much more parity, even if you're right that the league was owned by PIT, LA, CHI and BOS to add another.The difference between the top teams and the average teams is not that big.Also there's too many teams, and it's harder to keep many superstars on one team, to keep an identity.

I have no strong opinion on Vegas either way.Pittsburgh was a nice surprise the last few years because I thought that as Chicago would decline the league would see a 6-7 years stretch without any great team at all, just due to bad timing (no team with a perfect storm a la Chicago).This seems to be the case, with perhaps Tampa as the exception, especially if Kucherov continues and Stamkos can remain a star.

Anyway, it's not just about parity, it's also about the on-ice product.I can see it visually.Hockey is not what it used to be at all, and not in a good way.

 

[Iceman]

Tampa in 6
Winnipeg in 6

 

[Iceman]

I've criticized parity for years.I hate parity.I like powerhouses and dynasties, but also Gretzky-like individual offensive domination.Or a Harvey-like stretch of Norrises.

Hockey got cancer roughly around 1997 and died a couple of years after that.

The thing is though, the big misconception is that parity = competition. How many players entering the league started their career like Crosby and Ovi since they did it? McDavid? thats it? I think the league is weak right now, but wouldn't surprise me if most think that it's strong.

 

[ImporterExporter]

A league with 30ish teams will always be "weaker" then one with say 6. Perception is reality as we all know. I don't think the league is any weaker or stronger now than it was in the early 2000's or 90's for example. I think the top end talent was better during those periods but I also think the depth of talent is far better today then it was 20+ years ago. A lot of the grinders then wouldn't be able to skate in the league today. So it really balances out.

What player(s) from the DPE for example was clearly better than Crosby, Ovechkin and now McDavid?

Lemieux, when he played. Sure. Gretzky was just about finished so I don't count him. Lidstrom, by a smaller margin over Sid in my book, but then again Sid is still only 30 and the chances he doesn't pass Nick are pretty slim IMO. Plus half of Lidstrom's best years were post lockout. Bourque? Still an AS defender but well past his prime by 95-96. Roy, Hasek and Brodeur are certainly up there and I think goalie is where the biggest top end talent disparity exists when looking at a position and comparing that period to today.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Man, I hope Ovechkin wins the cup and the Smythe.

 

[MadArcand]

WSH in 6
VGK in 6