ATD Chat Thread XV

[Dreakmur]

With multiple ticky-tack suspensions already, I don’t think you can say they don’t care.

The problem is that nobody really knows whether that wa clean or not. Based on the video the NHL released a week ago, that was not a head contact situation. Now, it looked like he left his feet, so that’s another issue.

To me, that hit is fine. The laughing after the guy is hurt... that bugs me.

 

[ImporterExporter]

With multiple ticky-tack suspensions already, I don’t think you can say they don’t care.

The problem is that nobody really knows whether that wa clean or not. Based on the video the NHL released a week ago, that was not a head contact situation. Now, it looked like he left his feet, so that’s another issue.

To me, that hit is fine. The laughing after the guy is hurt... that bugs me.

I promise you if I had access to the video/GIF from the bench side you can clearly see Wilson making direct contact with the head of ZAR. He litearlly just did the same type of BS 1 game prior and the series before that. And every season before that. Anybody saying Wilson isn't out there with bad intentions is being extremely naive.

I've got no problem with big hits. We've all see shoulder on shoulder, shoulder to the chest. Stuff like that belongs. But when a guy clear as day, with his elbow out in an attacking manner drives directly through the head of a guy, causing a broken jaw and concussion, it's a different story. Not to mention, Wilson's sole job is to skate on the boundaries of legal. He routinely crosses that line because he knows the league will only fine him or possibly sit him for a game or 2. Oleksiak wanted to fight him last night and he declined. At some point, the Penguins or another team are going to do something really dumb in retaliation because the refs and league won't.

 

[Dreakmur]

Making direct contact is not the suspension. You are allowed to do that.

I never said he didn’t have bad intentions.... but why is there something wrong with that? Intimidation is part of the game. As long as you stay inside the rules, I don’t care if you’re mean.

You can’t say your ok with big hits and then break every hit down with slow-mo, rewind, and zoom-in looking for any kind of transgression. When bodies crash together, they bend and twist. You can make the same exact body check 50 times and the impact will be different every time.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I don't care if a player is mean either. Ryan Reaves is less skilled than Tom Wilson yet he's known primarily for beating the shit out of people head to head, fighting, man to man. I don't see a plethora of threads and videos of Reaves ending people's season's. Wilson flies around the ice right on the edge of legal almost every night. Sometimes he manages to remain within the boundaries and other times he doesn't. But it's a pattern. The guy continues to do the same shit and get away with it, not because it's always legal, but because the refs/league generally don't care about severe injuries and the impact they have on the game now, and long term.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don't see a plethora of threads and videos of Reaves ending people's season's. Wilson flies around the ice right on the edge of legal almost every night. Sometimes he manages to remain within the boundaries and other times he doesn't. But it's a pattern. The guy continues to do the same **** and get away with it, not because it's always legal, but because the refs/league generally don't care about severe injuries and the impact they have on the game now, and long term.

Just because somebody got hurt doesn't mean the play was illegal.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Just because somebody got hurt doesn't mean the play was illegal.

I agree. But the one last night was pretty clearly a direct blow to the head when you look at all the angles. Elbow out, leaves feet a bit on follow through. Textbook illegal "check".

 

[Dreakmur]

I agree. But the one last night was pretty clearly a direct blow to the head when you look at all the angles. Elbow out, leaves feet a bit on follow through. Textbook illegal "check".

Not all direct blows to the head are illegal checks. The NHL made that very clear with their recent video.

I think that if this is a suspension, it's because he left his feet, and not because of the head contact.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Fair enough. Regardless, I think we're in for a pretty crappy road long term with heavy contact sports. At some point it won't really be football or hockey anymore. You can't legislate all violence out of a violent sport but there are still way to many guys getting nailed in the head on very questionable hits. It's a crap situation all around.

 

[jarek]

Well it looks like the only way to answer that is to do it yourself until the league says enough is enough. I would expect to see several Washington players get run at over the course of the next few games. If they don't, then Pittsburgh deserves Tom Wilson injuring everyone. If you don't like it, you've got to answer it.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Well it looks like the only way to answer that is to do it yourself until the league says enough is enough. I would expect to see several Washington players get run at over the course of the next few games. If they don't, then Pittsburgh deserves Tom Wilson injuring everyone. If you don't like it, you've got to answer it.

Sullivan's mantra and message has always been to just play. Forget all the nonsense, which the Pens never did under Bylsma. We'll see in game 4 whether they can just focus on hockey. Whether Wilson is playing might have something to do with that. But if shit does spiral more out of control I wouldn't be surprised to see Tom Sestito up from the taxi squad and on the 4th line. And somebody WILL be hurt badly, Wilson or otherwise.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Refreshing to see Wilson sat for 3 games. We're talking about a slug who took a guy out in PRESEASON and was suspended for it.

This is the definitive still shot the NHL used:

 

[Dreakmur]

Well, this suspension contradict their previous video. I have no idea what the actual rule is anymore....

 

[jarek]

Well, this suspension contradict their previous video. I have no idea what the actual rule is anymore....

The rule is "you're dangerous and you're running guys so go take a vacation for 3 days".

 

[seventieslord]

I wouldn't describe this year's playoff as "multiple ticky tack suspensions"... Landeskog on Ekholm was absolutely vicious, not a hockey play at all, an excuse that any body check at least has. Morrissey on Staal, one game, was disgraceful. I think as a whole, the players in these playoffs have been under-suspended.

 

[Dreakmur]

The rule is "you're dangerous and you're running guys so go take a vacation for 3 days".

I don't know if this is sarcasm or not...

 

[ImporterExporter]

It's this simple. Tom Wilson is a huge PIM guy. His reputation is absolutely earned. He has routinely crossed the line in terms of his physical play. He's in my book a slightly more skilled/bigger version of Matt Cooke.

I promise you if any Penguin hit players in back to back games, directly to the head, I wouldn't have the audacity to say he wasn't a dirty POS. Plenty of guys have laid out big hits against Pittsburgh that I haven't had an issue with over the years. I've seen 87 blown up a handful of times with clean, hard hockey hits (Giroux immediately comes to mind). Tom Wilson doesn't play the game cleanly. He's been suspended 3 times in one year, pre-season included. It's a pattern with him and has been since day 1. A mid 1st round pick who is clearly not skilled enough to have warranted that selection is in the NHL because he plays a specific role, which unfortunately doesn't jive with the NHL anymore. We know so much more about the dangers of unnecessary blows to the head and this guy keeps going there. And a lot of the blame should be put on the NHL.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Is there seriously anyone weirder in all of sports than Pierre McGuire?

 

[Iceman]

Is there seriously anyone weirder in all of sports than Pierre McGuire?

Weirder? Not really.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Guentzel 10 goals (1 EN) in 10 playoffs games thus far. Amazing what he, Pastrnak and Crosby are doing this postseason.

Guentzel now has 21 points in 10 games and only 2 of those points are on the PP.

Crosby has 19 in 10 and 4 of those are PP.

Pastrnak 19 in 10 with 5 on the PP.

We could be looking at some super elite playoff runs on an individual scale if those guys keep playing.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'm pretty worried somebody (probably Tom Wilson) on Washington is going to do something really stupid if they lose another game at home Sunday. I can't even imagine the frustration levels building already. Saw 87 knocked out by Niskanen last year in game 2. Don't need a possible epic run compromised by goon ****.

Wow....gotta say, did I call this or what Granted they won games 2 and 3 but ole Willy had back to back headshots, so there's that...

 

[seventieslord]

Guentzel 10 goals (1 EN) in 10 playoffs games thus far. Amazing what he, Pastrnak and Crosby are doing this postseason.

Guentzel now has 21 points in 10 games and only 2 of those points are on the PP.

Crosby has 19 in 10 and 4 of those are PP.

Pastrnak 19 in 10 with 5 on the PP.

We could be looking at some super elite playoff runs on an individual scale if those guys keep playing.

It's 4 games into round 2 and Guentzel has the 10th most ESP in a playoff since 1997. Only four off the leader (Krejci)

He's scoring so much I'm actually worried he'll get the Smythe over an actual elite player.

 

[seventieslord]

Guentzel and Pastrnak/Crosby have the 2nd and 4th highest single season playoff PPG averages since 1990 (minimum 10 games). It's highly likely they regress to the mean, but also quite likely that after 15 games, they are all top-5 with a 15-game cutoff (would only need 1.56 PPG to get there)

 

[ImporterExporter]

It's 4 games into round 2 and Guentzel has the 10th most ESP in a playoff since 1997. Only four off the leader (Krejci)

He's scoring so much I'm actually worried he'll get the Smythe over an actual elite player.

As much as I'd love to see Sid make history with a 3rd straight, if Guentzel were to break the single playoff, all time goal scoring record and lead the Pens in scoring he's a sure fire bet to get it and I wouldn't be upset. Honestly as a Pens fan I'd take a 3rd straight title and the dynasty label if it means Crosby misses out on the Smythe and he'd tell you the same thing.

Actually just saw this stat. Crosby has been on the ice for EVERY Pittsburgh goal against Washington. That's nut.

 

[seventieslord]

As much as I'd love to see Sid make history with a 3rd straight, if Guentzel were to break the single playoff, all time goal scoring record and lead the Pens in scoring he's a sure fire bet to get it and I wouldn't be upset. Honestly as a Pens fan I'd take a 3rd straight title and the dynasty label if it means Crosby misses out on the Smythe and he'd tell you the same thing.

Actually just saw this stat. Crosby has been on the ice for EVERY Pittsburgh goal against Washington. That's nut.

It would feel a lot like Williams winning it in 2014. Is Guentzel the catalyst or the finisher? has he had the good fortune and smarts to end up with the puck on his stick at the right times or has he been the one driving possession, getting the puck up the ice, controlling the play? Replace Crosby with a run of the mill first line center and does Guentzel have 21 points? Replace Guentzel with a run of the mill first line winger and does Crosby still have 19?

I watched every LA game in 2014 and Williams winning stunk to me. It's a long playoff but if they go the way they've gone so far, Guentzel winning would stink in much the same way.

(granted, his assist the other night was awesome)

 

[ImporterExporter]

It would feel a lot like Williams winning it in 2014. Is Guentzel the catalyst or the finisher? has he had the good fortune and smarts to end up with the puck on his stick at the right times or has he been the one driving possession, getting the puck up the ice, controlling the play? Replace Crosby with a run of the mill first line center and does Guentzel have 21 points? Replace Guentzel with a run of the mill first line winger and does Crosby still have 19?

I watched every LA game in 2014 and Williams winning stunk to me. It's a long playoff but if they go the way they've gone so far, Guentzel winning would stink in much the same way.

(granted, his assist the other night was awesome)

Hey, you're preaching to the choir man

This is the most dominant I've seen Crosby over a 10 game playoff stretch since....hell, probably 09. He's putting the team on his back like never before really and I feel fortunate to be able to witness such greatness as a grown adult vs a youngster when Mario and Wayne were owning the league.

BTW, Crosby also tied Trottier and Lidstrom for 11th all time in playoff scoring at 183 points.