ATD Chat Thread XV

[ResilientBeast]

Hey... I got a chance to boo Crosby.

One of life's greatest pleasures

 

[ImporterExporter]

As a Pittsburgh fan, I love it when people boo 87. Makes these memories all the more sweeter.

3x Stanley Cup Champion (2009, 2016, 2017)

 

[ResilientBeast]

As a Pittsburgh fan, I love it when people boo 87. Makes these memories all the more sweeter.

3x Stanley Cup Champion (2009, 2016, 2017)

You can thank uncle Gary for that

http://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=2788701

 

[ImporterExporter]

You can thank uncle Gary for that

http://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=2788701

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

Mario was never going to relocate the team. The KC angle was always meant to scare the local officials into ponying up the money to keep the team in Pittsburgh. It's called negotiating. Has happened many times throughout sports. If people actually read articles and investigated things they wouldn't come to incorrect conclusions as you have sir.

Lemieux, frustrated with the politics of replacing the NHL's oldest arena, issued a 30-day deadline of whether to accept Kansas City's offer to move into the Sprint Center. That timeline has now stretched to two months with no resolution.

When Lemieux's group bought the team in federal bankruptcy court in 1999, the Hall of Fame player said he did so to ensure the team's existence in Pittsburgh.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Dead in the water last in attendance in 2004, gifted a generational talent sure

 

[ImporterExporter]

What does that have to do with an article you provided from 2007?

You think Pittsburgh is the only American based hockey team to be last in attendance when their team was trash for years on end, mainly from being a small market club with no salary cap? I'll save you the trouble. They weren't. How many teams folded and were then relocated over the years? Many. But somehow Pittsburgh gets shit on because they ended up with Crosby. And BTW, that was a lottery in which any team could have ended up with Sid. The only time the Pens tanked, 100% certainly, was to get get Mario 33 years ago.

I also find it utterly hilarious an Edmonton fan would bring up being gifted a generational talent when I just say Gretzky and McDavid, the latter, being like the 18th 1st overall pick the Oilers had in a 20 year span (ok I'm being dramatic but I made my point).

People hate the best. People hated Wayne and Edmonton. They hated Mario and Jagr in the early 90's. Same with Detroit and Chicago over the past 20 years. And when the shoe is on the foot of your team, nobody can bring you down. Hence why I just savor the dominance Pittsburgh has been able to put together recently. One day, it will be over.

 

[ResilientBeast]

See but if the lottery was fixed McDavid wouldn't be in Edmonton papa Gary probably would rather McDavid was somewhere else

Sorry we had incompetent management and possibly part of the worst string of 1st overalls since the new millennium

The team who openly tanked for 66 talking shit surprise

 

[VanIslander]

... if the lottery was fixed McDavid wouldn't be in Edmonton ...

If the lottery weren't fixed they wouldn't have made the draw off camera and had a "live" unveiling of the pre-printed name on the postercard in front of a nodding audience of sheeplike journalists.

Gawd what a shame the NHL lottery has been for several years.

If you haven't laughed out loud at the absurdity of it all, then you weren't there "live", are on drugs/don't give a ****,... or else are naive as heck.

 

[ResilientBeast]

If the lottery weren't fixed they wouldn't have made the draw off camera and had a "live" unveiling of the pre-printed name on the postercard in front of a nodding audience of sheeplike journalists.

Gawd what a shame the NHL lottery has been for several years.

If you haven't laughed out loud at the absurdity of it all, then you weren't there "live", are on drugs/don't give a ****,... or else are naive as heck.

What are you talking about, the lottery these days is insured by cooperation worth 100xs the NHL, the lottery these days is definitely not fixed or McDavid or Matthews would be in Arizona

 

[VanIslander]

If i wasn't a newspaper journalist from 1994-2002 who couldn't publish half of the best stories because of either not getting confirmation from independent sources (someone other than an irate witness who came forward) or publisher approval (you can't imagine how many stories are buried because of conflict of interest)...

I'd almost agree with you.

"insured by cooperation worth 100Xs the NHL" is a phrase by you, ResilientBeast, I think will take a couple of decades to forget!!

 

[ImporterExporter]

See but if the lottery was fixed McDavid wouldn't be in Edmonton papa Gary probably would rather McDavid was somewhere else

Sorry we had incompetent management and possibly part of the worst string of 1st overalls since the new millennium

The team who openly tanked for 66 talking **** surprise

Who is talking about the lottery being fixed? You keep spinning the discussion every time I make your previous posts look ridiculous.

The lottery/draft being fixed has been around as a conspiracy theory far longer than Sid Crosby being gifted to the Pens. If you want to indulge certainties be my guest.

I never said the lottery was fixed to get McDavid to Edmonton. Just as I don't believe it was fixed to get 87 to Pittsburgh.

But you can't sit here and bitch about Pittsburgh getting a generational talent(s) when Edmonton has been on the receiving end of the same luck multiple times as well. Pittsburgh at least had a legit argument as to why they sucked leading up to the Crosby draft. Super small market team, with no cap to balance out the wealth. Couple that with moronic ownershp (pre Mario) and its easy to understand why Pittsburgh couldn't afford to ice a good roster. Edmonton had numerous #1 overall picks and kept blowing them (for the most part). If they actually drafted halfway decent, McDavid to Edmonton never happens.

So yeah, I'm not shit talking. It's called facts. People come up with all sorts of BS in regards to Pittsburgh and Crosby and it almost always holds zero water. Again, people hate the best. 87 (and Pitt) is still the best in the game, as evidence of him/them winning back to back Cups and Conn Smythes.

 

[jarek]

It's easy to see why people might think the lottery is fixed given recent results. Sid to Pitts, multiple #1s to Edm, Matthews to TO..

Honestly, if it was rigged, Matthews to ARI would have been a no-brainer. Maybe too obvious though.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Who is talking about the lottery being fixed? You keep spinning the discussion every time I make your previous posts look ridiculous.

The lottery/draft being fixed has been around as a conspiracy theory far longer than Sid Crosby being gifted to the Pens. If you want to indulge certainties be my guest.

I never said the lottery was fixed to get McDavid to Edmonton. Just as I don't believe it was fixed to get 87 to Pittsburgh.

But you can't sit here and ***** about Pittsburgh getting a generational talent(s) when Edmonton has been on the receiving end of the same luck multiple times as well. Pittsburgh at least had a legit argument as to why they sucked leading up to the Crosby draft. Super small market team, with no cap to balance out the wealth. Couple that with moronic ownershp (pre Mario) and its easy to understand why Pittsburgh couldn't afford to ice a good roster. Edmonton had numerous #1 overall picks and kept blowing them (for the most part). If they actually drafted halfway decent, McDavid to Edmonton never happens.

So yeah, I'm not **** talking. It's called facts. People come up with all sorts of BS in regards to Pittsburgh and Crosby and it almost always holds zero water. Again, people hate the best. 87 (and Pitt) is still the best in the game, as evidence
of him/them winning back to back Cups and Conn Smythes.

Never mentioned any of that, McDavid was better last year but until he follows it up it doesn't matter anyway

 

[MadArcand]

People hate the best. People hated Wayne and Edmonton. They hated Mario and Jagr in the early 90's. Same with Detroit and Chicago over the past 20 years. And when the shoe is on the foot of your team, nobody can bring you down. Hence why I just savor the dominance Pittsburgh has been able to put together recently. One day, it will be over.

Can't say I agree. I don't recall people hating Hawks, Wings, Kings or Avalanche particularly much. Definitely Devils, but that had to do more with their style of hockey.

Success does breed resentment, but it's also the way you go about the success that affects it. Pens as an organization have been extremely unlikable even before the recent Cups.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Can't say I agree. I don't recall people hating Hawks, Wings, Kings or Avalanche particularly much. Definitely Devils, but that had to do more with their style of hockey.

Success does breed resentment, but it's also the way you go about the success that affects it. Pens as an organization have been extremely unlikable even before the recent Cups.

Ding ding ding

 

[ImporterExporter]

Never mentioned any of that, McDavid was better last year but until he follows it up it doesn't matter anyway

How do you define the best? Hart? Lindsay? CS? Points? It's all subjective.

McDavid has some to work on to get to the pinnacle. His shot needs to improve. He'll continue to round out as a defensive player although i think he's well ahead of the normal curve there. I also think he needs to be more consistent in owning the corners with the puck and be able to win battles in and around the goal mouth. He'll surely get stronger and likely do that in time.

Can't say I agree. I don't recall people hating Hawks, Wings, Kings or Avalanche particularly much. Definitely Devils, but that had to do more with their style of hockey.

Success does breed resentment, but it's also the way you go about the success that affects it. Pens as an organization have been extremely unlikable even before the recent Cups.

See, I find all of this total nonsense. The Penguins haven't done anything differently than other franchises, outside of maybe being extremely lucky when they had the #1 overall pick and getting somebody like Malkin at 2.

Bolded, Why? You have had one of the most classy players/owners in the history of the sport (Lemieux) for the past 30+ years running the team in one way or another. He's been instrumental in growing the sport of hockey in a non traditional hockey market. Most folks probably have no idea how much he does for charity and children around the Pittsburgh area. He took a bankrupt franchise and turned it into one of the most profitable/valuable in the league. There are no big scandals. There are no crazy skeletons that anyone knows of. And taking the torch from Lemieux has been Crosby, who, while being boring and certainly lacking flamboyancy, is literally the picturesque player when it comes to what elite skill combined with world class work ethic and professionalism (especially off the ice) can do for a person, team, and the league as a whole.

Not liking Pittsburgh because they have almost always had a franchise player on the roster for 30 years makes sense (especially in the case of Lemeiux since they tanked to get him). Not liking them because they have 5 Cups since 91 makes sense. Maybe they're a rival of your favorite team. Makes sense. But outside of that? They are nowhere near the top in terms of dirty play in my lifetime. Sure they have had some dirty players like any team but they don't have an egregious moment like Marty McSorely /Toddy Bertuzzi, or a guy like Scott Stevens, who was the epitome of "love him or hate him" superstar who went to and crossed the line with his play time and time again over the course of many years.

Pittsburgh is the epitome of a team that is hated because they have superstars and they win. But I won't accept that Mario Lemeiux (and the rest of the FO) of all people are a legitimate reason to dislike the Pens. It just doesn't hold any water.

 

[ResilientBeast]

All conventional measures of regular seasons success show McDavid was better if we don't lose Sekera maybe we beat the Ducks who knows.

I dislike the Pens because I dislike Crosby after how he was shoved down our throats and for guys my age there was a big push to be a Crosby fan coming out of the lockout. And the media blitz was similar to that of TSN and the Leafs these days. You're taking it very personal man, people can dislike things you like.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'm not taking it personal haha. I'm well aware that Crosby is disliked by many. Hell, I completely agree that he was pushed on the NHL landscape very very hard but you also have to remember that the league just suffered a full work stoppage. Losing an entire year could have legitimately sunk the league or at least made growth very difficult for a long time. I get WHY the league pushed Crosby so hard. One, he was the best pure prospect coming out of Jr's since Lemeiux in many people's opinion and the league needed somebody to brand as "the guy". I don't fault any guy for being put in a position like that. Imagine the pressure that puts on an 18 year old kid haha!

Pittsburgh won a Cup without Letang. Sekera going down probably doesn't get you any further. I don't think anyone was beating Nashville in the west anyway. The Oilers are in the same boat the Pens were in around 07-08. Supremely skilled, young team that just needs seasoning and experience in the postseason before they can take the final step. Obviously having good luck injury wise is a big part of that but if the FO can put the right pieces around McDavid (they have some really good support players already) i'd be very surprised not to see the Oilers in the finals in the next 2-3 years.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I'm not taking it personal haha. I'm well aware that Crosby is disliked by many. Hell, I completely agree that he was pushed on the NHL landscape very very hard but you also have to remember that the league just suffered a full work stoppage. Losing an entire year could have legitimately sunk the league or at least made growth very difficult for a long time. I get WHY the league pushed Crosby so hard. One, he was the best pure prospect coming out of Jr's since Lemeiux in many people's opinion and the league needed somebody to brand as "the guy". I don't fault any guy for being put in a position like that. Imagine the pressure that puts on an 18 year old kid haha!

Pittsburgh won a Cup without Letang. Sekera going down probably doesn't get you any further. I don't think anyone was beating Nashville in the west anyway. The Oilers are in the same boat the Pens were in around 07-08. Supremely skilled, young team that just needs seasoning and experience in the postseason before they can take the final step. Obviously having good luck injury wise is a big part of that but if the FO can put the right pieces around McDavid (they have some really good support players already) i'd be very surprised not to see the Oilers in the finals in the next 2-3 years.

Sekera on our second pairing over Benning and keeping Gryba out of the lineup we definitely make it past the Ducks

 

[jarek]

I wonder if the Leafs' defensive concerns even matter that much when they're sitting in first in goal differential regardless of that. I do think it'll catch up to them at some point when they aren't able to score goals at a blistering pace, but for the regular season it shouldn't matter that much.

I don't think that kind of style will work in the playoffs though. Although this team may just have the weapons offensively to make it work.

I'm also going to come out and say that Matthews is going to have the best career out of Laine, Eichel and McDavid. He's way more versatile than all of those guys as he has the tools to play just about any way you want him to. He can muck it up, he can play a great two-way game, he can shoot, he can pass..

I really loved McDavid's attitude though when he was apparently watching Matthews scoring goals on tip ins and such and wanting to get better that way. Really smart on his part as I think he's the type of player that will need to have that extra dimension to his game once he can't blow past everyone else with his wheels.

 

[MadArcand]

Laine, maybe. Eichel, almost certainly (I still think he doesn't belong in same class as McDavid & Matthews). McDavid? Very unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I've said for a while now I'd take Matthews over McDavid if I had to pick between the 2. McDavid will bring you out of your seat more but I think Matthews is built for the postseason and will be a better big game player. I just see it in his face. His style of play. It's early but that is what I've seen having watched both a good deal at this juncture.

 

[jarek]

I'm thinking more in terms of longevity. Matthews' versatility will serve him well later in his career. If McDavid just relies on his wheels and doesn't develop in other ways, he won't be relevant too long after he starts to slow down. I chose Eichel and Laine in this comparison because they, along with Matthews and McDavid, pretty much make up what the face of the NHL will be going forward. Although only if Buffalo and Winnipeg can actually become relevant.

It's absolutely unbelievable how important it was for the Leafs to select 1st overall. It's almost comical that there were people contemplating the idea of taking Laine over Matthews. At this point, the comparison isn't even close.

 

[jarek]

Is it time to start talking about the ATD?

 

[ImporterExporter]

Taking a winger over a C is generally a pretty stupid idea, especially when that C is somebody like Matthews.