ATD Chat Thread XV

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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
Yup my bad just found it, I think I've found the difference in link formatting.

It appears that they've changed the max characters per post. But I should be able to have the "new" old master bio thread up and running again by the end of the day
Why do you think it's changed? I checked my Lafleur bio and it's still approaching 100000 characters just like before.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,902
3,557
Edmonton
Why do you think it's changed? I checked my Lafleur bio and it's still approaching 100000 characters just like before.

Because I can't edit the original master bio thread, it complains that it's larger than 50,000 characters and it throws a hissy fit.

Bio thread is being fixed as we speak
 

MadArcand

Whaletarded
Dec 19, 2006
5,872
411
Seat of the Empire
I'm not implying anything other than this is not our home.I'm not paranoid, I don't think we're that important to the site.
Exodus is not an option (been there done that on another forum. It just abrades the poster base with each move.). We're stuck here, for better or worse.

And frankly, so long as ugly design is the worst* problem...

* - would actually pasting the BB code of the broken posts with tables, apostrophes and stuff into an old BB style boards and then just copying the resulting output (NOT BBcode) back here not fix most of the issues?
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
Exodus is not an option (been there done that on another forum. It just abrades the poster base with each move.). We're stuck here, for better or worse.

And frankly, so long as ugly design is the worst* problem...

* - would actually pasting the BB code of the broken posts with tables, apostrophes and stuff into an old BB style boards and then just copying the resulting output (NOT BBcode) back here not fix most of the issues?

Yes, that sounds plausible, assuming we have a WYSIWYG editor on this site... I assume we do?
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
BTW, Corsi sucks ***.

I just posted this on the Vegas Knights Board (**** the Golden), I being a franchise follower of theirs from the moment the annoucement was made that billionaire Foley was ALL IN! (heck, look at my avatar's helmet, since early spring of this year).

VanIslander said:
OMG, OMG. omg... ! THIS has made my day! :D A big reason to diss Corsi!

Reinhart was the opposite of eye candy - no I don't mean unrecognized great play - in awful play!

Just watch Mr. Corsi get waived (and likely cleared - unless an Avs-like team decides he may suck less than PTO Cowan).
Miller, Garrison, Sbisa, Stoner and RFA-send-down-able Theodore have been better. Could Reinhardt scap out a job against Schmidt or Merrill on the third pairing? I doubt it. But in NO UNIVERSE has Reinhart approached being the best dman in Vegas this preseason. That result in itself is laughable enough to dismiss Corsi.
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,972
2,352
Nobody who's literate in the use of statistics thinks that a half-dozen game sample of raw corsi is at all useful to judge a player. And unfortunately, the SBNation blogs all seem to to have a terminal case of certainty, with frequent articles that slap down a single wonky metric, and demand critical thinking about every viewpoint but their own (and I could be basing that off just a few bad ones I've read, but I do get that impression).

But if you think you can't learn anything by collecting shot data, looking at a player's game, and trying to figure out why the results are as they are, the problem is with you.

So the question is: Why are more shot attempts for, happening when Reinhart has been on the ice? You've watched the games, I'm sure you can provide some insight.
 
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ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,902
3,557
Edmonton
Exodus is not an option (been there done that on another forum. It just abrades the poster base with each move.). We're stuck here, for better or worse.

And frankly, so long as ugly design is the worst* problem...

* - would actually pasting the BB code of the broken posts with tables, apostrophes and stuff into an old BB style boards and then just copying the resulting output (NOT BBcode) back here not fix most of the issues?
That would likely fix it, work has gotten a little busy for me, but I expect to have enough of our stuff redone before ATD 2018
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
But if you think you can't learn anything by collecting shot data, looking at a player's game, and trying to figure out why the results are as they are, the problem is with you.

So the question is: Why are more shot attempts for, happening when Reinhart has been on the ice? You've watched the games, I'm sure you can provide some insight.

Well said. If he doesn't look all that good and yet his Corsi looks good, it's probably just a small sample anomaly, or he's getting sheltered minutes against easier players (lord knows there are plenty of those in the preseason).
 

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
10,004
238
Corsi should not be dismissed because of one case like this. However, it also should not be treated as anything more than one piece of the puzzle in figuring a player out.

If Reinhart is responsible for 2-3 extremely bad plays per game, but otherwise drives offensive play for his team going in the correct direction, well, guess what.. that's Jake Gardiner. Nobody is questioning the NHL ability of him.
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,972
2,352
Well said. If he doesn't look all that good and yet his Corsi looks good, it's probably just a small sample anomaly, or he's getting sheltered minutes against easier players (lord knows there are plenty of those in the preseason).
It's also a better indicator of neutral zone play than anything else - the part of the ice most associated with the "tilt" of a game. For a Leafs example, Martin Marincin is ok at making the safest passes quickly in transition, and covering a big chunk of the blue line with his wingspan, and bad at almost everything else. This shows up in the disparity between his shot data, and his reputation among just about everyone who's ever seen him.

would be interesting to know if Reinhardt can do similar things.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
40,373
16,652
Mulberry Street
BTW, Corsi sucks ***.

I just posted this on the Vegas Knights Board (**** the Golden), I being a franchise follower of theirs from the moment the annoucement was made that billionaire Foley was ALL IN! (heck, look at my avatar's helmet, since early spring of this year).


Miller, Garrison, Sbisa, Stoner and RFA-send-down-able Theodore have been better. Could Reinhardt scap out a job against Schmidt or Merrill on the third pairing? I doubt it. But in NO UNIVERSE has Reinhart approached being the best dman in Vegas this preseason. That result in itself is laughable enough to dismiss Corsi.

How many teams do you follow now? 8?

I'm not a big fan of Corsi either. Hockey never needed advanced stats, and I don't care to use them to judge a player.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
However, it also should not be treated as anything more than one piece of the puzzle in figuring a player out.

Exactly, and I know like one person who treats it as much more than that. When people suggest that there's a significant number of people who do, that's a strawman.
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,972
2,352
LOL.

Those who criticize it aren't dismissing it. They just aren't RELYING ON IT, as so too many do!
To be fair, you literally said the word "dismiss" in your post.
So what is Reinhart doing to drive shots, despite being a limited player at best? I'd like to know from someone who watches him.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
He's driving shots?

Where did you get that idea?

Oh yeah. :rolleyes:

He'll be out of a job soon, oh Corsi awesome!
 

Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
4,972
2,352
I've asked you twice for details, you've replied with once with a LOL, and once an eyeroll emoji.
Are the figures in the article:
- a coincidence?
- evidence of some tertiary skill that doesn't really win hockey games (if so, what)?
- the result of playing against scrubs in the preseason?
- incorrectly reported by SBNation themselves?
Still waiting for a serious answer.
 

Michael Farkas

Grace Personified
Jun 28, 2006
13,352
7,833
NYC
www.HockeyProspect.com
I don't know what the numbers say, but Reinhart is a fringe NHLer at best from a technical skills perspective. It's surprising to think he would be good at something that counts all shots as equal, as he has no real talent. Either way, don't rely on the lunatic fringe of people who lap up Corsi like the plane is going down to skew your judgment. I don't care for it, NHL teams are passed it, but don't go crazy. It's a tool, not unlike plus/minus...take it for what it's worth...
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
... don't rely on the lunatic fringe of people who lap up Corsi like the plane is going down to skew your judgment. I don't care for it, NHL teams are passed it, but don't go crazy. It's a tool, not unlike plus/minus...take it for what it's worth...
Post of the month!
 

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
10,004
238
Corsi simply represents the "tilt" of the ice when a specific player is on the ice. It doesn't account for the other players on the ice with said player. If you're 10 years old, and playing on the same line as Doug Harvey, Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, chances are your corsi is going to look pretty good.

That is obviously a very extreme example, but it illustrates my point. Reinhart has probably gotten some pretty favourable linemates and matchups, thus his corsi looks good. That being said, I feel like these cases are much rarer than the cases where corsi actually accurately reflects a player's ability to direct shots towards the opponent's net.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
Bravo! An NHL team gets Jagr! (There's a report on nhl.com that he turned down St. Louis a few days ago in favor of Calgary).

Jagr may only be on the 3rd line (and PP) but the 3rd line pivot in Calgary is Sam Bennett, a player with a ton of talent who finally will have a pair of offensively talented wingers in JJ and Versteeg. It'll be like a 2B line.

I expect 30-50 points from him. He should be hungrier to prove himself this year than last, given how much harder it was to get an NHL contract. Dominate the powerplay down low, collect 45+ points and he'll get another one-year deal after this I bet! He would indeed be surpassing Chelios and entering Gordie Howe-type terrain.

cropped_2017-01-18T020814Z_2114125659_NOCID_RTRMADP_3_NHL-FLORIDA-PANTHERS-AT-CALGARY-FLAMES.jpg
 
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