ATD 2018 Lineup Advice Thread

[Hawkey Town 18]

I like Martinec as the 3rd forward on the 1st unit. As for the point, I would only play a F there if he has real life experience playing the point on a PP.

 

[overpass]

Getzlaf has played a lot of point on the PP. I would put him on the point for one of the units and have Kennedy centre the second unit.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Thanks for your input fellas. Much appreciated.

 

[Velociraptor]

How do I deploy the following players for my forward corps on my power play??

Alex Ovechkin (would like him to play point)
Syl Apps (1C, I'd imagine)
Bill Cowley (2c)
Mark Recchi
Rod Brind'Amour (can play left side)
Rick Nash
Joe Mullen
George Hay (does he have any place on an ATD PP?)

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Is it necessary to have a C on my 2nd pk unit?

 

[jarek]

Is it necessary to have a C on my 2nd pk unit?

If you plan on having one center taking all the faceoffs, then no. I'm going to guess that isn't going to happen though.

 

[Velociraptor]

Is it necessary to have a C on my 2nd pk unit?

Winning faceoffs has to be a fairly important element to having a good PK. If you feature a winger who had some sort of prowess in the dot, I'm sure it would be serviceable.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

How do I deploy the following players for my forward corps on my power play??

Alex Ovechkin (would like him to play point)
Syl Apps (1C, I'd imagine)
Bill Cowley (2c)
Mark Recchi
Rod Brind'Amour (can play left side)
Rick Nash
Joe Mullen
George Hay (does he have any place on an ATD PP?)

Without looking at at their split stats, this is how I see these guys:

1st PP material: Ovechkin, Apps, Cowley, Recchi
2nd PP material: Hay, Mullen
Borderline 2nd PP material: Nash, Brind'amour, Mullen

Edit: Just looked at their stats, and Mullen/Nash/Brind'amour all averaged 20 adjusted PPP per season over their careers, which isn't terrible, but isn't all that great. I think a 2nd PP unit with more than one of those guys would be on the weaker side.

So you should probably use Cowley on the 2nd PP to give it more pop(which probably means using Ovechkin up front on the 1st unit), or draft another good PP forward

 

[Johnny Engine]

How do I deploy the following players for my forward corps on my power play??

Alex Ovechkin (would like him to play point)
Syl Apps (1C, I'd imagine)
Bill Cowley (2c)
Mark Recchi
Rod Brind'Amour (can play left side)
Rick Nash
Joe Mullen
George Hay (does he have any place on an ATD PP?)

Small detail - Ovechkin should go on the left in your roster post.
Question though, why are Bill White's 7 career power play goals on an ATD unit? Wouldn't Hod Stuart be far better there?

 

[tinyzombies]

Kind of flying blind with some of the early days guys, but they seem to fit these roles. Suchy killed penalties vs the Russians on RD from what I saw on video and played left point and snuck in a lot on the PP, and with Bucyk the umbrella seemed obvious, tho Boston had two guys at the net, but Bucyk seems like a perfect fit anyway? Points-wise, I think I have all the right guys on the top unit, tho I dropped Pronger for balance. Perreault's PP numbers are excellent too. Not happy with my draft, but I have more tools now. Not positive about Broadbent on PK2, but I have more guys to draft:

PP1:
Bucyk
Suchy - Beliveau - St. Louis
Niedermayer

PP2: Martin - Perreault - Morris - Simpson - Pronger

PK1: Madden - Finnigan - Pulford - Niedermayer
PK2: Broadbent - St. Louis - Pronger - Suchy

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Niedermayer should not be 1st unit on both PP and PK. Didn't he mostly play 2nd unit on both in real life? I think Pronger is better than him on both units, although I'm not sure you want Pronger with that many minutes either. You have Leo Boivin, he should be on one of the PK's for sure.

How about this?...switch Pronger and Neidermayer on the PP units and replace Suchy with Boivin on the 2nd PK

Edit: Can either of your 2nd unit PK forwards take faceoffs? Maybe you could get away with just saying that you'd put Beliveau out there to take faceoffs if you had to and try to get him off right away? You'd have to give him like 1 min of PK time

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm fine with Pronger getting more minutes than his range indicates, because playing a lot of minutes was one of his powers during his career.I wouldn't play him 30 minutes, but 25-26, maybe 27 would be fine for me.OTOH, I don't expect those minutes to be of a bonafide super #1 D, but of his range.

 

[tinyzombies]

Niedermayer should not be 1st unit on both PP and PK. Didn't he mostly play 2nd unit on both in real life? I think Pronger is better than him on both units, although I'm not sure you want Pronger with that many minutes either. You have Leo Boivin, he should be on one of the PK's for sure.

How about this?...switch Pronger and Neidermayer on the PP units and replace Suchy with Boivin on the 2nd PK

Edit: Can either of your 2nd unit PK forwards take faceoffs? Maybe you could get away with just saying that you'd put Beliveau out there to take faceoffs if you had to and try to get him off right away? You'd have to give him like 1 min of PK time

Looking at the TM column of the spreadsheet, Boivin's PK numbers aren't very good, so I left him off. But that might be because he was on a lot of bad teams?

Neidermayer's PK points are top 100, same with Pronger, and both of their TM numbers are excellent. I figured if I had one on each unit, I'd be anchored. I will switch them on the PP because of the minutes factor tho.

Broadbent was also a center, so he could take draws.

Suchy was a great shot-blocker too and he looked great from what I saw on video on the PK vs the late 60s Russians. He was a bit more adventurous even strength, but a winger seems to always drop for him, so I think they wanted or allowed him to play that way.

?

 

[tinyzombies]

PP1:
Bucyk
Suchy - Beliveau - St. Louis
Pronger

PP2: Martin - Perreault - Morris - Simpson - Niedermayer​

I like the speed on the PP2 now: Martin-Perreault-Simpson-Neidermayer could all fly which removes the burden from all of them - the zone entries on this unit would be amazing. PP1 is fine with Beliveau or St. Louis bringing the puck up too. Thanks.

PK fix will have to wait for my next pick. Pulford is a top 60 all-time Dman, so I assume he's fine here.

PK1: Madden - Finnigan - Pulford - Niedermayer
PK2: Broadbent - St. Louis - Pronger - Suchy

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Looking at the TM column of the spreadsheet, Boivin's PK numbers aren't very good, so I left him off. But that might be because he was on a lot of bad teams?

Neidermayer's PK points are top 100, same with Pronger, and both of their TM numbers are excellent. I figured if I had one on each unit, I'd be anchored. I will switch them on the PP because of the minutes factor tho.

Broadbent was also a center, so he could take draws.

Suchy was a great shot-blocker too and he looked great from what I saw on video on the PK vs the late 60s Russians. He was a bit more adventurous even strength, but a winger seems to always drop for him, so I think they wanted or allowed him to play that way.

?

Where did you read that Broadbent also played C? I have never seen that before.

PP1:
Bucyk
Suchy - Beliveau - St. Louis
Pronger

PP2: Martin - Perreault - Morris - Simpson - Niedermayer

​

I like the speed on the PP2 now: Martin-Perreault-Simpson-Neidermayer could all fly which removes the burden from all of them - the zone entries on this unit would be amazing. PP1 is fine with Beliveau or St. Louis bringing the puck up too. Thanks.

PK fix will have to wait for my next pick. Pulford is a top 60 all-time Dman, so I assume he's fine here.

PK1: Madden - Finnigan - Pulford - Niedermayer
PK2: Broadbent - St. Louis - Pronger - Suchy

First off, Beliveau absolutely needs to be in front of the net on PP1 - dominating the front of the net on the PP was one of his greatest skills.

PP2 has a lot of skill, but is really soft up front. I dunno... putting Bucyk on PP2 to give it toughness and maybe a believable net guy up front could work. Edit: I just looked at your roster post, and see you have Starshinov. I think he's a really believeable 2nd unit net guy.

Your PK units look fine, assuming Broadbent can take faceoffs (I'm not currently convinced). I'd prefer not to have Suchy on the PK; I guess he can do it, but I'm not totally sure it's his strength.

By the way, I don't think many of us think Pulford is a top 60 dman anymore. If for no other reason, than he has been surpassed by recent defensemen like Keith, Weber, and Doughty. That said, I never really bought him as a top 60 dman - he seems like a Derian Hatcher or Lionel Hitchman type to me - not skilled enough to be a top 60-70 defenseman. But of course, that type of defenseman can play on PK1 any day.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Also keep in mind that if you are using overpass's spreadsheet to determine estimated ice time, it only goes back to 1960. I just find it hard to believe that Boivin didn't kill penalties much in real life.

Edit: I just checked - 48% estimated shorthanded usage for Boivin post-1960 is pretty good. I'd get him on your PK over Suchy, if for nothing else to spread the minutes around.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Never seen Broadbent at center neither, and I just went through a crap ton of Ottawa summaries.OTOH, I wasn't looking for this.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Re: Pronger and Niederamyer - I think Pronger was a lot better on both special teams, but Niedermayer was at least as good as Pronger at even strength. Niedermayer was a lot like Mark Howe in that his speed let him really shine at even strength, but wasn't as useful on special teams. I'd set up your lineup accordingly.

 

[jarek]

Head Coach: Art Ross

Captain: Rod Langway
Assistant Captains: František Pospíšil, Bob Nevin

Cy Denneny - Frank Nighbor - Bob Nevin
Vladimir Krutov - Mickey MacKay - Patrick Kane
Sergei Kapustin - Frank Fredrickson - Václav Nedomanský
LW - Don McKenney - Jerry Toppazzini

Rod Langway - Pierre Pilote
František Pospíšil - Doug Mohns
LD - Ted Green

Ken Dryden
G

PP1: Denneny - Nedomanský - Kane - Pospíšil - Pilote
PP2: Krutov - Fredrickson - Kapustin - MacKay - Mohns

PP extras: Nighbor, McKenney

PK1: Nighbor - Nevin - Langway - Pospíšil
PK2: Krutov - Toppazzini - Pilote - Green

PK extras: MacKay, Fredrickson, McKenney, Mohns

NOTES:

Krutov, according to @Batis, took the faceoffs on the Krutov - Makarov PK unit in real life. He also apparently took faceoffs in Larionov's place at even strength as well.

MacKay's ability to play the point on the PP is largely based off his real life success at rover.

----------

So unless something really drastic happens with a player trade after the draft, that's what I'm probably gonna go with. I don't see any obvious improvements that can be made.

It was suggested to me to go with something like this for my top lines:

Cy Denneny - Frank Nighbor - Patrick Kane
Vladimir Krutov - Mickey MacKay - Bob Nevin

I guess this would move the shut down line to my 2nd line, leaving the top line free for more offensive oriented shifts while still being able to play against just about any line because of Nighbor's presence. This may be a better use for Mickey MacKay as well.

 

[tinyzombies]

Where did you read that Broadbent also played C? I have never seen that before.



First off, Beliveau absolutely needs to be in front of the net on PP1 - dominating the front of the net on the PP was one of his greatest skills.

PP2 has a lot of skill, but is really soft up front. I dunno... putting Bucyk on PP2 to give it toughness and maybe a believable net guy up front could work. Edit: I just looked at your roster post, and see you have Starshinov. I think he's a really believeable 2nd unit net guy.

Your PK units look fine, assuming Broadbent can take faceoffs (I'm not currently convinced). I'd prefer not to have Suchy on the PK; I guess he can do it, but I'm not totally sure it's his strength.

By the way, I don't think many of us think Pulford is a top 60 dman anymore. If for no other reason, than he has been surpassed by recent defensemen like Keith, Weber, and Doughty. That said, I never really bought him as a top 60 dman - he seems like a Derian Hatcher or Lionel Hitchman type to me - not skilled enough to be a top 60-70 defenseman. But of course, that type of defenseman can play on PK1 any day.

FIXED?:

PP1:
Bucyk - Beliveau (I read that Boston used Bucyk at the side of the net and out of the corner with Espo at the net)
St. Louis
Simpson -Niedermayer

PP2:
Starshinov
Suchy - Perreault- Martin
Pronger

PK1: Madden - Finnigan - Boivin - Pronger
PK2: xxx - St. Louis - Pulford - Niedermayer

 

[jarek]

Starshinov definitely belongs on your PP. He was pretty much Esposito-lite in terms of his style.

 

[tinyzombies]

Starshinov definitely belongs on your PP. He was pretty much Esposito-lite in terms of his style.

I thought I had made a mistake picking him because people seemed underwhelmed. I would think that a line of Duff-Starshinov-Broadbent would be tough to play against as a third line, but not sure the talent is good enough?

Same goes for my forward lines. I think they are balanced, but might not be as good as I could have made them. I took Bucyk too soon, for instance.

John Bucyk - Jean Beliveau - Martin St. Louis
Rick Martin - Gilbert Perreault - Bernie Morris
Dick Duff - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Punch Broadbent
John Madden - Frank Finnigan

Chris Pronger - Jan Suchy
Harvey Pulford - Scott Niedermayer
Leo Boivin - Bullet Joe Simpson

Grant Fuhr​

 

[jarek]

I thought I had made a mistake picking him because people seemed underwhelmed. I would think that a line of Duff-Starshinov-Broadbent would be tough to play against as a third line, but not sure the talent is good enough?

Same goes for my forward lines. I think they are balanced, but might not be as good as I could have made them. I took Bucyk too soon, for instance.

John Bucyk - Jean Beliveau - Martin St. Louis
Rick Martin - Gilbert Perreault - Bernie Morris
Dick Duff - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Punch Broadbent
John Madden - Frank Finnigan

Chris Pronger - Jan Suchy
Harvey Pulford - Scott Niedermayer
Leo Boivin - Bullet Joe Simpson

Grant Fuhr​

Starshinov might be very underrated. At least one poster here thinks he's a rich man's Petrov.

 

[Batis]

FIXED?:

PP1:
Bucyk - Beliveau (I read that Boston used Bucyk at the side of the net and out of the corner with Espo at the net)
St. Louis
Simpson -Niedermayer

PP2:
Starshinov
Suchy - Perreault- Martin
Pronger

PK1: Madden - Finnigan - Boivin - Pronger
PK2: xxx - St. Louis - Pulford - Niedermayer

If you don't find a better option for the second PK-unit I would suggest using Starshinov there. Starshinov was along with Firsov the greatest Soviet penalty killer (among forwards) in the second half of the 60's. In the one game he played at the 1972 Summit Series Starshinov also showed that he was very capable of killing penalties against the best the NHL had to offer. In that game (game 2) Starshinov led all Soviet forwards in shorthanded ice time despite being clearly out of his prime as a player. Here is the post specifically about Starshinov from the Soviet PK study. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/140416979/

 

[tinyzombies]

Starshinov might be very underrated. At least one poster here thinks he's a rich man's Petrov.

Wait, a RICH man's Petrov?