Around the NHL #14 - Offseason and junk

[Johnny Hoxville]

Snipes, I will say Brodie is really turning it on lately.

And UC,

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I can't say whether Julien is a tactical upgrade on Gully, but I would have a lot more confidence in his ability to develop Bennett, Monahan, Jankowski, Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Klimchuk, Pribyl, Hamilton, Kulak, Kylington etc as he has a proven track record. I truly worry Gulutzan is going to "Nugent Hopkins & Eberle" our young players.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Gully has done some decent things. But half of the team Canada brain trust just got fired in the last week.

I'll take Hitchcock or Julien any day over GG. We had a shot at a top 5 coach in the offseason and passed it up. It seemed as stupid then as it does now to not hire Boudreau. We shouldn't make that mistake again IMO.

 

[Ynnek]

Gully has done some decent things. But half of the team Canada brain trust just got fired in the last week.

I'll take Hitchcock or Julien any day over GG. We had a shot at a top 5 coach in the offseason and passed it up. It seemed as stupid then as it does now to not hire Boudreau. We shouldn't make that mistake again IMO.

The only way Gully is gone is if Treliving doesn't get extended. He's not going to fire him as this is his guy he went out and got.

 

[Anglesmith]

Gully has done some decent things. But half of the team Canada brain trust just got fired in the last week.

I'll take Hitchcock or Julien any day over GG. We had a shot at a top 5 coach in the offseason and passed it up. It seemed as stupid then as it does now to not hire Boudreau. We shouldn't make that mistake again IMO.

I mean, you're making the fundamental assumption that we had the option to sign Boudreau, and that certainly may not have been the chase. What has you convinced that Boudreau wanted to come to Calgary instead of Minnesota?

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I mean, you're making the fundamental assumption that we had the option to sign Boudreau, and that certainly may not have been the chase. What has you convinced that Boudreau wanted to come to Calgary instead of Minnesota?

I think it was the fact that the Flames organization came out and said they were not pursuing Boudreau. I could be wrong in remembering that.

Otherwise your logic is correct.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

The only way Gully is gone is if Treliving doesn't get extended. He's not going to fire him as this is his guy he went out and got.

I'm not saying fire him now. And I'm not totally sold that he's not a good coach either. But if this team doesn't improve 5 on 5 and there is an elite coach out there like Julien, or Hitch, I think you strongly consider doing it in the offseason. Regardless of who "their guy" is.

Honestly, we had less talent under Hartley yet we were better 5 on 5. His job is to improve this team 5 on 5 and it's not really happening to this point.

We need a hybrid where our coach lets our best players do their thing offensively. Yet play muck it up, ugly, chip and chase hockey with the rest of the roster. But from what I've seen this year he's trying to make Gaudreau and Brodie in particular play like every one else.

Those guys are elite and don't need to play like everyone else. Their instincts are better than any thing a coach can teach them (offensively).

Johnny needs to leave the defensive zone early. He's probably the most dangerous player in the league off the rush (him or McD). So get him out there picking cherries and backing off the d, getting the puck in space. When he's doing that he just seems consistently like the most dangerous player on the ice. Yeah, it will lead to the odd goal against, but it's not like that line has been a defensive force in this system either.

Right now Gulutzan is really trying to implement a traditional stay low, short passes from the d to the winger on the wall to the Center breaking through the middle.

Positives of that system: better defensively. You have more guys in the defensive zone so if there's a missed pass/turnover it's easy to cover up.
Negatives: you don't get a lot if offence off the rush. Usually one guy breaks out of the zone and dumps the puck into the corner. And you kinda have to rely on mistakes from their d to get the puck back. Offence comes from the cycle and forecheck (why 3M line is so effective)
Hartley didn't do enough of this to be honest. He had the Flames trying to play like the Red Army. And we just don't have the skill after a handful of guys to play that way.

And for most of the team, it's the proper system. But not with Johnny. He needs space and time and then he's one of the best players in the NHL. He's not great at putting up points once it's established possession in the zone. He's better off the rush.

Really our system leads to a lot of dump and chase, which Johnny is useless at. And hence, he's been ineffective.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I mean, you're making the fundamental assumption that we had the option to sign Boudreau, and that certainly may not have been the chase. What has you convinced that Boudreau wanted to come to Calgary instead of Minnesota?

It was the interview that Treliving had on fan 960 when he announced that we had signed Gulutzan.

He said people were really excited about the Flames roster and that he basically had his choice.

 

[Anglesmith]

It was the interview that Treliving had on fan 960 when he announced that we had signed Gulutzan.

He said people were really excited about the Flames roster and that he basically had his choice.

As opposed to saying what?

"Yeah, this process took a long time because of our negotiation with Bruce. After he decided to go with Minnesota, we went down our list of preferred coaches to Glen. We had a long conversation about whether we wanted to wait for some of our other more preferred coaches to maybe get fired so they'd be available, but overall we're really happy to have our first-choice coaching candidate among those currently available, and sixteenth-choice overall. Please help me welcome Glen!"

I mean, yes, we could take Treliving at his word there, or we could assume he was saying that because he didn't want people thinking he lost out on the coach he really wanted, because it would undermine confidence in Gully. It really could be either, but I don't think that quote can really be used as support of anything.

 

[Kahvi]

Good point. I've hired few interns over the years. One time it was the third (and last) choice as the two others got better jobs. The one we hired was maybe a bit surprised and asked why I hired her. Of course I had to lie a little etc. so I didn't crush her confidence.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Rarely do GMs explicitly say something like that. They usually say, "this is the right guy moving forward", but rarely talk about how many options they had. That's why it stood out as odd to me. But it's true, I am assuming they had a chance at Boudreau and went with Gulutzan. Whether the issue was money or what I honestly believe we could have made it happen if we wanted to.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Doesn't Boudreau have family in Calgary? If so, I'm sure Treliving could have brought him here if he really wanted to.

 

[Anglesmith]

Thing is, it isn't even about whether Boudreau wanted to be here, because there would also have been the fact that he would've wanted Minnesota, too.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Boudreaux is a top coach. Flames would have to fork over a bunch of money.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Doesn't Boudreau have family in Calgary? If so, I'm sure Treliving could have brought him here if he really wanted to.

He has a daughter in Ottawa.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

He has a daughter in Ottawa.

Ah, that's it. Speculation was that he could go to Ottawa because of that, thought it was Calgary for some reason.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Boudreaux is a top coach. Flames would have to fork over a bunch of money.

And Bordeaux is a city in France. Still doesn't mean that Boudreau wanted to be here, or that Treliving thought he was a good fit for any number of reasons.

Treliving is in on everything - I'm fairly certain he would have at least talked to Boudreau before he was hired elsewhere.

 

[Dertell]

I wasn't too big on Boudreau in the off-season and I still feel the same way now. What's the difference between 2014-15 post-Dubnyk trade and 2016-17? Nothing.

Boudreaux is a top coach. Flames would have to fork over a bunch of money.

That's not necessarily true. Boudreau signed for pretty cheap relative to other coaches signed/extended in the past 2 offseasons.

Babcock: 6.25M x 8
Q: 6M x 3
Vigneault: 4,08M x 3
Trippett: 4M x 5
MacLellan: 3M x 5
Bylsma: 3M x 5
Sutter: 3M x 3
Boudreau: 2,625M x 4
Hakstol: 2M x 5
Bashill: 800K x 4
(no data on salary for everyone else)

The only HCs with lower AAV had zero NHL experience. Tort signed 2M x 3 but it was well after the season started. Plus he wasn't in the mix for a while.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Id say there's a substantial difference between finishing in the 2nd wildcard spot (2015/16) and being 2nd in the entire NHL.

 

[Dertell]

Snarks don't work when you don't read what you're replying to.

Dubnyk (MIN) 2014-15: 27-9-2, .936
Dubnyk 2016-17: 29-9-3, .933

Kuemper 2014-15: 14-12-2, .905
Kuemper 2016-17: 6-3-3, .904

The fancy stats tell a similar tale. Their shot, goal and expected goal ratio were all 1% higher after the Dubnyk trade than this year.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

If you're saying why you aren't a fan of Boudreau, why only point at goaltender stats? Why forget about 2015/16?

 

[Dertell]

Dubnyk's save percentage tanked by 1.8%. Of course their position wasn't quite as good.

No, I'm not buying that their system was suddenly amazingly terrible defensively while Kuemper's save% increased by one percent then somehow dropped back the following year and the blueline was pretty much the same. And learning how the stat work and vary.

 

[Mr Snrub]

If Calgary really had their pick of coaches (inc Boudreau) and went with ****ing Glen Gulutzan, Treliving ought to be fired. There is no way that actually happened.

 

[Kanye]

If Calgary really had their pick of coaches (inc Boudreau) and went with ****ing Glen Gulutzan, Treliving ought to be fired. There is no way that actually happened.

Kanye hot take:

It did happen.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Kanye hot take:

It did happen.

Yep.