Around the League 2017-18 Edition

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Anaheim4ever

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If they become big buyers they'll be selling their farm which will hurt alot because in next years draft they will also have a later first round pick which is not a draft position most 2nd year teams want.
For the long term it benifets the Ducks if Vegas are buyers at the deadline, being buyers will effect them down the road. I'm predicting in the playoffs Vegas gets knocked out 4 games to 1.
 

Kalv

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Mar 29, 2009
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I think their GM told that h will not sacrifice long term assets. It was some time ago, but I still got the notion that they will not go all in this year or something. In other words - they are building for long term. Them trading off assets is just a speculation (them not trading is also, for that matter though :) )
My understanding is they will trade only assets they don`t see in their picture longterm.

Lets be real, just sneaking into playoffs will be a huge success for them.
 

Pennaduck

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Aug 17, 2016
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I think it's great how well Vegas is doing. It would be great to see them make the playoffs. But I have my doubts how much buying they would potentially do at the deadline. They're not a serious cup contender this year. Making the playoffs would be a nice bonus, but their long term plan is building to be a legitimate cup contender. I don't see them buying more than a depth veteran for a late round pick, if that.

This is how I felt until recently. Honestly I don't see why they shouldn't be in the discussion at this point. They have had stellar goaltending, their D is getting the job done night in and night out, and they are scoring the most goals in the Western Conference right now. In fact, their goals for and goals against are very similar to Winnipeg's numbers and I would say you have to consider the Jets a contender this season. They are 16-4-0 against Western Conference teams, they are above .500 on the road and nearly unbeatable at home. They have established veterans and good looking young players at every position and seem to be very well coached. Take their 'new-ness' out of the equation and ask yourself what other criteria should a team demonstrate to be considered a contender?

I keep expecting them to cool down but at what point in the season does a rival fan accept that maybe they are just a damn good team and will be right there with all the other damn good teams in the west when all is said and done? I've reached that point around the 25 game mark and now consider them as a playoff team for certain and a borderline contender. And IMO, if you are icing a contender, you should make a move or two at the deadline if you think it would help you on a nice long playoff run, because it reinforces the notion to your players that you are with them and want to win. All of those guys playing night in and night out don't see this team as a long-term building process and they don't see this season as a waiting game while the organization accumulates assets. They see it as a hockey team and a hockey season and they want to win the cup. If I'm their GM, I'm looking to add at the deadline to support that. Within reason, obviously, as I am not suggesting they should in all in one Evander Kane since they seem to have the offense needed to contend. But imagine OEL or even a guy like Mike Green on that team.
 

Pennaduck

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Aug 17, 2016
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If they become big buyers they'll be selling their farm which will hurt alot because in next years draft they will also have a later first round pick which is not a draft position most 2nd year teams want.
For the long term it benifets the Ducks if Vegas are buyers at the deadline, being buyers will effect them down the road. I'm predicting in the playoffs Vegas gets knocked out 4 games to 1.

For the first bold, they just had a pretty great 2017 draft and I doubt they will move their 2018 picks, but Vegas has so many draft picks in the first few rounds in 2019 and 2020, plus all kinds of cap space to take on a contract or two as a cap dump. Those are huge assets that don't necessitate selling the farm.

For the second bold, I've given up on predictions for this team after I thought coming into this season that they would be a bottom dweller that would only win games thanks to MAF in net. Vegas has proven me wrong time and again and I am no longer letting myself think that just because they are a brand new franchise, they can't win in the playoffs. They have veterans who've been there before up and down the lineup and seem to have great coaching. If all of these players and coaching staff constituted the Red Wings or Canucks instead of a brand new franchise, and were putting this performance together, I'd bet a lot more people would be talking about them as contenders.
 
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Dr Johnny Fever

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This is how I felt until recently. Honestly I don't see why they shouldn't be in the discussion at this point. They have had stellar goaltending, their D is getting the job done night in and night out, and they are scoring the most goals in the Western Conference right now. In fact, their goals for and goals against are very similar to Winnipeg's numbers and I would say you have to consider the Jets a contender this season. They are 16-4-0 against Western Conference teams, they are above .500 on the road and nearly unbeatable at home. They have established veterans and good looking young players at every position and seem to be very well coached. Take their 'new-ness' out of the equation and ask yourself what other criteria should a team demonstrate to be considered a contender?

I keep expecting them to cool down but at what point in the season does a rival fan accept that maybe they are just a damn good team and will be right there with all the other damn good teams in the west when all is said and done? I've reached that point around the 25 game mark and now consider them as a playoff team for certain and a borderline contender. And IMO, if you are icing a contender, you should make a move or two at the deadline if you think it would help you on a nice long playoff run, because it reinforces the notion to your players that you are with them and want to win. All of those guys playing night in and night out don't see this team as a long-term building process and they don't see this season as a waiting game while the organization accumulates assets. They see it as a hockey team and a hockey season and they want to win the cup. If I'm their GM, I'm looking to add at the deadline to support that. Within reason, obviously, as I am not suggesting they should in all in one Evander Kane since they seem to have the offense needed to contend. But imagine OEL or even a guy like Mike Green on that team.

You may be right and I'd love to see them be serious contenders because I think it's good for the game. I'd also agree they should make every reasonable effort to help the team at the deadline, if it makes sense. And I guess that's the big question mark like it is for many teams. What makes sense for any given team? Just how much should any team go all in or not, relative to the TDL? I just think they will be cautious about any all in type moves, not unlike the Ducks always seem to be. I think it's a fine line for Vegas to walk so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 

Anaheim4ever

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In a scale from 0 to Kase`s celly after scoring a goal - how happy are you that we didn`t trade for Duchene?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/duchene-i-wasnt-traded-for-turris.2425997/
That Duchene trade also shows the difference between how well run american teams are vs canadian teams. Canadian teams tend to overpay like the Hall for Larsson deal or Subban for Weber or the recent Duchene trade.
I can't even decide which Canadian team is run the best, Ottawa does draft & develop well but then they go & do the Ryan trade, the Duchene trade, Phaneuf trade & the Brassard trade with all of those trades are losses for them. Ryan is a sunk cost & even though that pick in the trade ended up being Ritchie it could have easily have been Dylan Larkin. Phaneuf is a overpaid slow moving D-man that Toronto was smart to get rid of & Ottawa tried getting rid of him. The Brassard trade they gained a guy who is now 30 & while a good player he's not as good as Zibanejad who's only 24 with room to improve even more. To acquire Duchene they gave up Turris along with prospects/picks. Ottawa should just stop trading unless its to rebuild which they should do, even if their team played better their goalie is 36 & having a rough season.
 

mightyquack

eggplant and jade or bust
Apr 28, 2010
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While the Ryan trade looks bad now it was a pretty decent move for them at the time (even though IMO Ryan was already declining at the time of the trade), they were getting a consistent 30 goal forward in his mid 20's coming off 1 bad season. And gave up Silf (who was a very good young 2 way forward, but questions if his offense could get to that next level in the NHL), Noesen (young prospect coming off an underwhelming +2 season) and a 1st rounder (which was expected to be around the 20's) - honestly that's the sort of move you want your team to take if they are looking to compete, it didn't work out well but if Anaheim was in the same situation where they thought they had a window to compete, I'd rather see them take a shot and go for it then be overly conservative (which you could certainly argue Anaheim may have been overly conservative in their window to date).

Phaneuf trade was a good one for Ottawa tbh, they got rid of a ton of deadwood who were signed for multiple years (Michalek, Cowen, Greening) which made room for them to re-sign their best forward in Hoffman. Granted Phaneuf contract is brutal longer term, he's at least a serviceable middle pairing guy and they have Hoffman signed up for a couple more seasons at a pretty great AAV.

I think it's to early to say the Duchene trade is terrible for them. On paper Duchene has been the more productive player since 11-12 (so when Turris joined the Sens), not to mention the Sens hands were a bit tied as Turris was obviously not going to re-sign in Ottawa which affects the value of Turris in a trade somewhat. So to turn a UFA to be into a similar player (at worst), who's signed through 2019 and only having to give up a very good prospect (who theoretically isn't needed if they see Duchene as a #1 center) and a 1st and 3rd rounder isn't the worst trade. Ottawa at the time were 5th in the Eastern Conference overall with a record of 6-3-5 so giving up a 1st rounder for 2018 was hardly a disaster as they were playing pretty decent hockey. I don't think anyone could have predicted Duchene would struggle to adapt so badly and for Ottawa to end up going 5-11-3 since the trade. Assuming Duchene picks it up and Ottawa is able to re-sign him past his current deal, I think it still ends up a pretty good deal for Ottawa.

The only real headscracther is the Brassard/Zibanejad trade, but I have a feeling it was a financial move more then anything (because honestly nothing else makes sense). The owner is a noted cheapass and would probably rather only have a 3 year/15m commitment to Brassard compared to a 5 year/27m commitment to Zibanjad.

Honestly I think Ottawa get more flack for their moves then they deserve. It's easy to look back in hindsight and say they are terrible, but outside of the Zibanejad move all of their recent big moves made sense at the time, granted the Ryan one turned out terrible in hindsight.
 

Anaheim4ever

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Didn't Ryan not want to re-sign ? cause he wanted to be the anchor of a top line without Perry.
The Ducks had to eventually trade him & they got Ottawa to offer up alot for a guy the Ducks weren't going to keep.
There were knocks on Ryan's defense & skating ability if i recall.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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IIRC, Ryan did say he wanted to anchor his own line. But he never said he wanted to leave or that he didn't want to sign here. I believe most of us didn't think the Ducks wanted to pay him what he would get when his then current contract expired. And that was mainly because he never showed he could anchor a line and be the driving force. At least that's what I think I remember.
 
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mightyquack

eggplant and jade or bust
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IIRC, Ryan did say he wanted to anchor his own line. But he never said he wanted to leave or that he didn't want to sign here. I believe most of us didn't think the Ducks wanted to pay him what he would get when his then current contract expired. And that was mainly because he never showed he could anchor a line and be the driving force. At least that's what I think I remember.
Pretty much this. The only people who pushed the 'Ryan wouldn't re-sign in Anaheim narrative' were people in Philadelphia who were convinced he was going to sign for the Flyers in FA, so the same garbage that is said everytime a good Ducks player (or any good player in a non-traditional market) gets close to FA.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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Pretty much this. The only people who pushed the 'Ryan wouldn't re-sign in Anaheim narrative' were people in Philadelphia who were convinced he was going to sign for the Flyers in FA, so the same garbage that is said everytime a good Ducks player (or any good player in a non-traditional market) gets close to FA.

Yes. There were definitely many Flyer fans convinced he was going home to sign with them. But that was the typical HF UFA talk.
 
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Yeah, he was never like "give me my own line away from Perry or I'm leaving." They tried repeatedly to put him on other lines in fact and it never worked for long. Even tried him at center. That was the whole point of the trade, to take the money we were spending on him and spend it on depth, so that we weren't so top heavy.
 

AngelDuck

Rak 'em up
Jun 16, 2012
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Ryan just couldn't find chemistry with anyone other than a couple dominant years on the RPG line
 

Anaheim4ever

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Jun 15, 2017
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IIRC, Ryan did say he wanted to anchor his own line. But he never said he wanted to leave or that he didn't want to sign here. I believe most of us didn't think the Ducks wanted to pay him what he would get when his then current contract expired. And that was mainly because he never showed he could anchor a line and be the driving force. At least that's what I think I remember.
It was so long ago i couldn't remember all the details, with the impression they weren't going to spend to keep him, i remember people saying somewhere thats the reason they got the package for Ryan that they did. At the time it was projected late 1st rounder & Noesen looked like a 4th liner & Silfverberg had just finished his rookie season. I wasn't sure about the return they received at the time that they could have gotten more for a 4 time 30 goal scorer under 30years of age. I remember hoping for one Philly's young centers back then.
 

dracom

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Dec 22, 2015
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I'm kinda happy Vegas is doing so well in their first season, but I'll be even happier next year when they fall to earth and their fans have to experience a bad season for the first time.
 
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