Around Hockey XXIV (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Ok. I don't know about the last line, I guess it depends on what the alternative would be. If we didn't have to rely on linesmen, and offside calls could be made automatically by applying high tech to track skate and puck movements, then I'd agree.

There are lots of applications for “breaking the plane” using tech the way EPL uses VAR in both hockey and football it seems to me.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

It seems, at least to me, that most offside challenges don't really have much impact on the play (ie it's a player who doesn't even touch the puck on the goal or a long zone possession). I'm in favor of getting rid of that challenge altogether

 

[koteka]

It seems, at least to me, that most offside challenges don't really have much impact on the play (ie it's a player who doesn't even touch the puck on the goal or a long zone possession). I'm in favor of getting rid of that challenge altogether

I’m for a 5 second rule. If the goal is scored more than 5 seconds after something challengeable happened, it’s just dudes playing hockey and you can’t challenge. Of course then we’ll have refs spending a long time trying to determine was the goal scored 5.0 seconds after the puck hit the net or 5.1 seconds after, but that will be a rare occasion.

 

[LJ7]

It seems, at least to me, that most offside challenges don't really have much impact on the play (ie it's a player who doesn't even touch the puck on the goal or a long zone possession). I'm in favor of getting rid of that challenge altogether

Agreed. If an offsides is close enough that a ref can't see it in real time then it isn't egregious enough to affect play meaningfully. The current review -> overturn or powerplay system affects/disrupts the game so much more than a few missed offsides calls here and there.

 

[Jovavic]

I’m for a 5 second rule. If the goal is scored more than 5 seconds after something challengeable happened, it’s just dudes playing hockey and you can’t challenge. Of course then we’ll have refs spending a long time trying to determine was the goal scored 5.0 seconds after the puck hit the net or 5.1 seconds after, but that will be a rare occasion.

I remember proposing a similar rule after watching Jagr in a first year pre-season game, told my cousin he should have a three second clock and he needs to do something with the puck in that time or get a delay of game penalty.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The terrible no good very bad Blackhawks on track to potentially win their 4th straight game, and becoming 6 points out of the final wild card spot with games in hand.

Maybe the obituaries were written too quickly

 

[LJ7]

The terrible no good very bad Blackhawks on track to potentially win their 4th straight game, and becoming 6 points out of the final wild card spot with games in hand.

Maybe the obituaries were written too quickly

Games in hand? Compared to who?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Games in hand? Compared to who?

oops. Scrolled too fast. No games in hand

 

[Fred Glover]

OK experts, serious question here
What books or free videos can you recommend to learn the ins and outs about the game, ie systems, scouting etc. I want to expand my knowledge so what do you suggest?

 

[LJ7]

OK experts, serious question here
What books or free videos can you recommend to learn the ins and outs about the game, ie systems, scouting etc. I want to expand my knowledge so what do you suggest?

I'm no expert, certainly in the same "long time fan looking to learn more" boat. Because of that I bought this e book on pre sale that comes out on February 1st. Pre sale price is $16, after Feb 1st it will be $32. You can poke around this Twitter thread the author's Twitter feed to better understand what to expect from it.

 

[koteka]

OK experts, serious question here
What books or free videos can you recommend to learn the ins and outs about the game, ie systems, scouting etc. I want to expand my knowledge so what do you suggest?

I think this is something we are missing in Columbus. I don’t know if the Jackets or Bally Sports the Dispatch or who, but someone needs to take on the a role of educating the fans to get them to the next level. Like a series of articles or videos on various aspects of the game. Beyond very basic stuff like “What is icing?” Like defensive zone clears or set plays on face offs or strategies to kill penalties. Maybe put some local ex Jackets on the ice (Jody, Tyutin, Dorsett) and talk through aspects of the game.

Most fans in Columbus didn’t play the game growing up so there is a level of knowledge that is missing. It would be great to break out various situations and say “This is what the defenseman is doing in this situation while one wing should be here, the other wing is doing this, the other defenseman is here, and the center is concerned with this. The options are A, B, and C depending on what the other team is doing.” And then show A, B, and C.

And then interview a scout or two and have them explain what they liked in Werenski’s game which led to him being drafted. Or how someone on the coaching staff prepares for an upcoming opponent.

 

[majormajor]

I think this is something we are missing in Columbus. I don’t know if the Jackets or Bally Sports the Dispatch or who, but someone needs to take on the a role of educating the fans to get them to the next level. Like a series of articles or videos on various aspects of the game. Beyond very basic stuff like “What is icing?” Like defensive zone clears or set plays on face offs or strategies to kill penalties. Maybe put some local ex Jackets on the ice (Jody, Tyutin, Dorsett) and talk through aspects of the game.

Most fans in Columbus didn’t play the game growing up so there is a level of knowledge that is missing. It would be great to break out various situations and say “This is what the defenseman is doing in this situation while one wing should be here, the other wing is doing this, the other defenseman is here, and the center is concerned with this. The options are A, B, and C depending on what the other team is doing.” And then show A, B, and C.

And then interview a scout or two and have them explain what they liked in Werenski’s game which led to him being drafted. Or how someone on the coaching staff prepares for an upcoming opponent.

I think they do have segments like that, they're meant to be educational. It's just all exceedingly basic. It's not meant for fans like us.

 

[koteka]

I think they do have segments like that, they're meant to be educational. It's just all exceedingly basic. It's not meant for fans like us.

I think Columbus is ready for the next level beyond the basic. We have had the Jackets for 20+ years. Let’s start talking about things like why teams use the 1-3-1 formation on power plays and options off of it. But I guess that means the fans will have more knowledge to criticize the power play. So maybe that is why they don’t do something like that.

 

[tunnelvision]

@koteka I think the non ideal usage of camera angles during broadcasts may be a big reason to why most of us seem to lack access to this knowledge. It is much easier to understand tactical concepts when they're being demonstrated clearly with the best angles that allows viewers to perceive all on-ice-player distances and the entire rink (or at least 3/4 of the rink) at once. It's a shame how rarely they use "behind the net/upper bowl" angle in games, often only in random goal replays or intermission breakdown segments. I think it gives the best view for tactical and scouting purposes. Here it's first replay angle on Duchene's goal:

 

[koteka]

@koteka I think the non ideal usage of camera angles during broadcasts may be a big reason to why most of us seem to lack access to this knowledge. It is much easier to understand tactical concepts when they're being demonstrated clearly with the best angles that allows viewers to perceive all on-ice-player distances and the entire rink (or at least 3/4 of the rink) at once. It's a shame how rarely they use "behind the net/upper bowl" angle in games, often only in random goal replays or intermission breakdown segments. I think it gives the best view for tactical and scouting purposes. Here it's first replay angle on Duchene's goal:

That’s a good point. I like the seats that give you that view. Not only because they are cheaper.

 

[thebus88]

Okay yeah, but the puck still isn’t in the zone. And the frame I posted, the puck still isn’t in the zone. I’m aware of this new “possession” rule but he doesn’t have possession in my picture.

Nothing new regarding having puck possession without it crossing the line. The only thing new is the fact skates can be in the air and still be considered onside.

 

[thebus88]

Also, I’m not gonna ‘quote’, but, I think those opinions on offsides calls are horrendous.

If it’s offside, it’s offside.

The only acceptable “5 second rule” should be much longer than 5 secs. I’d be ‘ok’ with 30 seconds, as that’s gives plenty of time for the defending team and the play to “reset”. 5 is not even close.

The other thing is they need to get rid of the f***ing tablets on the ice. Let the league office make the calls, and if it’s too hard for them to make a decision in the office, put a time cap on them for 5 minutes or go with the call on the ice.

What’s crazy are the instances where the officials “rush” a review on the ice, the league allows them to make a “determination”, then after the game the league issues a statement saying that they didn’t see all angles….like…WHAT!?!

 

[thebus88]

You guys could go watch local ‘A’ league beer league hockey games and you could easily see what Roslovic, Boqvist and the bunch are doing wrong defensively….

 

[tunnelvision]

If it’s offside, it’s offside.

Yes, and it should be called every single time. There are some things in hockey that I own a opinion of, and I'm aware of belonging in minority with those opinions. This is one of them. What makes my opinion on this topic so different compared to my other unpopular thoughts is that I'm having really hard time understanding why so many people seem to think opposite. A wrong or missed call in the game, no matter how irrelevant they sometimes can be, is much more infuriating and greater of a buzz/momentum killer to me than having to wait extra 3-5 minutes after a goal due to reviews.

 

[EspenK]

I hate that offsides is reviewable. In the vast majority of cases it has no impact on the play. If you are firmly in love with the ability to do so, why not allow a review/challenge on any missed call? High sticking, boarding, interference , etc. It seems ridiculous to me that missing a guy being offsides by .1 second or an inch is critical to the integrity of the game.

 

[tunnelvision]

I hate that offsides is reviewable. In the vast majority of cases it has no impact on the play. If you are firmly in love with the ability to do so, why not allow a review/challenge on any missed call? High sticking, boarding, interference , etc. It seems ridiculous to me that missing a guy being offsides by .1 second or an inch is critical to the integrity of the game.

Reviews on high sticks? Yeah, maybe. In most cases it's pretty easy to tell by watching replays whether a stick hits the head or doesn't with all available camera angles.

Boarding and interference, no. Definitions for these penalties are so vague it is inevitable that all calls are arbitrary, and with any possible borderline case the final call would still be a good interpretation at best. Reviews wouldn't change that fact.

 

[thebus88]

I hate that offsides is reviewable. In the vast majority of cases it has no impact on the play. If you are firmly in love with the ability to do so, why not allow a review/challenge on any missed call? High sticking, boarding, interference , etc. It seems ridiculous to me that missing a guy being offsides by .1 second or an inch is critical to the integrity of the game.

Well they do it when a goal is scored. I don’t understand how you people say being offside has no impact on the play. Why even have the rule at all then??

How long have they been doing video review for high stick goals and foot in the crease goals??

 

[EspenK]

Well they do it when a goal is scored. I don’t understand how you people say being offside has no impact on the play. Why even have the rule at all then??

How long have they been doing video review for high stick goals and foot in the crease goals??

Its not that it is a useless rule it is when it is so close the linesman doesn't call it and 20 or 30(or more) seconds later a goal is scored does anyone really believe the infinitesimal amount of offsides really physically affected the play?

 

[Monk]

Its not that it is a useless rule it is when it is so close the linesman doesn't call it and 20 or 30(or more) seconds later a goal is scored does anyone really believe the infinitesimal amount of offsides really physically affected the play?

....the play that shouldn't have happened in the first place because of a missed call? Just be happy you got to see it, even though it doesn't count

 

[I3LI3]