Speculation: Armchair GM Thread Mk. II - Now Paging Derek Ryan

[Mobiandi]

Time for Gio to step aside?

Giving him an A should be Peters first order of business

 

[InfinityIggy]

Giving him an A should be Peters first order of business

I think that would really activate the D.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

In principle Bounces isn’t wrong though. It’s up to management, the scouting staff and the farm system to do their job. The Flames have.

All of: Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington, Dube, Mangiapagne, Klimchuk and Foo have legitimate shots at being on the roster next year. Unless the Flames sign a topline player, they have literally no reasons to sign anyone else. This comes after a season after graduating Janks, Kulak and I’ll even say Lazar.

I couldn't disagree more Hox. Our bottom six was in shambles all season long, largely because we left our bottom six open assuming some of them would step up. We had to sign a 45 year old winger who hadn't trained all off season when nobody did.

I definitely want to leave a spot open on the forward core and the d core. But this team needs better depth and cannot waste another season if nobody steps up either.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I couldn't disagree more Hox. Our bottom six was in shambles all season long, largely because we left our bottom six open assuming some of them would step up. We had to sign a 45 year old winger who hadn't trained all off season when nobody did.

I definitely want to leave a spot open on the forward core and the d core. But this team needs better depth and cannot waste another season if nobody steps up either.

I think you have to actually give your players a chance to make the team and get their feet wet.

When I played hockey I hated that evaluations occurred at the start of the season. I was junk the first 10-15 icetimes.

I always felt that it was ridiculous that I could have a great season the previous year but that would be overlooked by my performances in training camp and pre season.

Those young guys (Dube, Mangiapane, Foo) actually have some offensive upside that Stajan , Lazar, Hathaway etc have failed to show time and time again.

Could they struggle the first 15 games? Absolutely. Toughest league in the world. But the benefits will be seen down the stretch and long term IMO.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I think you have to actually give your players a chance to make the team and get their feet wet.

When I played hockey I hated that evaluations occurred at the start of the season. I was junk the first 10-15 icetimes.

I always felt that it was ridiculous that I could have a great season the previous year but that would be overlooked by my performances in training camp and pre season.

Those young guys (Dube, Mangiapane, Foo) actually have some offensive upside that Stajan , Lazar, Hathaway etc have failed to show time and time again.

Could they struggle the first 15 games? Absolutely. Toughest league in the world. But the benefits will be seen down the stretch and long term IMO.

By that logic teams like Arizona would be a lot better. Or Edmonton with JP. Or Florida with their metric crapton of rookies over the years.

I think the best course of action would be to leave 1 D spot and 1 F spot open. If someone forces their way onto the roster, then you can trade one of your filler pieces.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I think you have to actually give your players a chance to make the team and get their feet wet.

It's no surprise that arguiably the best early-season success story we've had in the last handful of years was Josh Jooris, and no one in their right mind would think Josh Jooris is comparable in ability level to guys like Mangiapane, Dube, Phillips, or even that tweener group of Foo/Shinkaruk/Poirier/Klimchuk.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

It's no surprise that arguiably the best early-season success story we've had in the last handful of years was Josh Jooris, and no one in their right mind would think Josh Jooris is comparable in ability level to guys like Mangiapane, Dube, Phillips, or even that tweener group of Foo/Shinkaruk/Poirier/Klimchuk.

Jooris is the first forward to actually EARN a spot via training camp though I would argue. Jankowski arguably shoulda/coulda/woulda. Dube was close this year, but management thought him playing a big part of strong team and the WJC was better for his development.

 

[Dack]

Christ if that Kane contract sets the market than I honestly think it would be better to hold off and try and trade for top 6 help.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Jooris is the first forward to actually EARN a spot via training camp though I would argue.

Maybe that was because he got to play with Gaudreau and Bennett that preseason who raised his level.
Contrast with Kulak having to play on Bartkowski's right, or Jankowski playing with Lauri Korpikoski, or Dube playing with Tanner Glass, etc, etc. Training Camp is a time where you see if kids can support the stars, but instead they constantly ask the kids to go be the stars and then are disappointed when they can't carry ECHLers.

Effort is nice but common sense dictates that you put the kids in position to succeed and t starts as early as prospect camp.

 

[Calculon]

Jooris made the team the same way Jankowski did, as the first injury call up as a result of solid training camps. Jooris was a surprise but Jankowski was obvious and more of a case of needing to clear roster space.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I couldn't disagree more Hox. Our bottom six was in shambles all season long, largely because we left our bottom six open assuming some of them would step up. We had to sign a 45 year old winger who hadn't trained all off season when nobody did.

I definitely want to leave a spot open on the forward core and the d core. But this team needs better depth and cannot waste another season if nobody steps up either.

Really though, what spots did we have available this year? Janks didn’t even make the team out of camp (when he clearly deserved to) because of a lack of spots. We had 1 clear spot up for grabs, and that was our #6 D spot. There was a spot on the wing for sure, but we had bodies like Hathaway and Brouwer that were ready to go.

The point being, our bottom 6 was a weakness this year. I feel like they played their best hockey when our guys from the Heat started being called up.

So yeah, I also disagree with you on this lol.

 

[Sparky93]

Really though, what spots did we have available this year? Janks didn’t even make the team out of camp (when he clearly deserved to) because of a lack of spots. We had 1 clear spot up for grabs, and that was our #6 D spot. There was a spot on the wing for sure, but we had bodies like Hathaway and Brouwer that were ready to go.

The point being, our bottom 6 was a weakness this year. I feel like they played their best hockey when our guys from the Heat started being called up.

So yeah, I also disagree with you on this lol.

Don’t forget about Versteeg who was injured all year

 

[Mobiandi]

There was Bennett, Brouwer, Stajan, Versteeg (prior to injury), Lazar all pencilled into our bottom 6. And Familton was all but guaranteed a pressbox spot

We left one spot open during training camp. Glass earned his contract during training camp and pushed Janko down to the AHL and the Jagr signing pushed Stajan/Lazar to rotate in and out of the pressbox which plunged Jankowski further down the depth chart.

Pretty sure it took a Jagr injury for him to get called-up and the Versteeg injury a month later to get him to stay up with the big club.

In my opinion, we could afford to leave two forward spots open for next year. I think the front-runners would be Mangiapane, Foo, and Dube.

 

[DFF]

It's no surprise that arguiably the best early-season success story we've had in the last handful of years was Josh Jooris, and no one in their right mind would think Josh Jooris is comparable in ability level to guys like Mangiapane, Dube, Phillips, or even that tweener group of Foo/Shinkaruk/Poirier/Klimchuk.

Al the opportunity in the world is not going make NHLer out of Shinkaruk/Poirre or Klimchuk. If they are so great why couldnt they make Stockton a playoff team?

I love how you overrate prospect...not saying he will never make it but a guy like Phillips is a long long way from the NHL. Jooris made the team because he can play a role....some of these guys are not good enough for any role in the NHL period.

 

[Volica]

Christ if that Kane contract sets the market than I honestly think it would be better to hold off and try and trade for top 6 help.

Yeah, that's a gnarly one.

We'll see how the market shakes out.

 

[BigRangy]

Mangiapane, on any halfway decent team that can use him properly, should be in a top 9 scoring role next season.

Nobody shreds the AHL likes he does at his age without being able to step into a scoring role in the big leagues.

He should be pencilled in as the 3LW imo, which obviously necessitates moving one of Gaudreau/Tkachuk/Bennett to RW

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Dube is a RW, so play Mangie on the LW and we’re golden.

 

[Bounces R Way]

There were 21 rookies to break 30 points last year. Probably would of been more for the several cases that weren't up with the big team all year and getting over 20, Jankowski being one of them.

The Flames had 5 forwards do that. That's not enough. Not nearly enough honestly. They also have only 9 forwards signed on a pro contract for next year. Along with 8 RFAs they'll have to make decisions on.

The Flames need to find out what they have in the system at the NHL level. I do hope we see a much more competitive training camp under Peters than we did under Gulutzan. The roster should be built around trying to maximize production and potential. If you think you can get more out of a roster spot than Lazar or Hathaway's 12 and 13 pts respectively then replace them. Really the same should be said for Brouwer, but he's an NHL vet with a guaranteed contract, and we all know that's sometimes enough to keep a player in the lineup year in and year out.

 

[Mobiandi]

If you think you can get more out of a roster spot than Lazar or Hathaway's 12 and 13 pts respectively then replace them.

I do think if a rookie impresses in training camp and shows some staying power early on next season, then Lazar is as good as gone, as in for future considerations gone.


As for free agency, it was never going to be the answer for the Flames. It seldom is for any team. I don't really think Treliving is chomping at the bit to give JvR a Gaudreau contract. You either go for Tavares if he decides to test the waters, go for a bottom 6er (see Derek Ryan), or try to see if you can lure Thornton for 1 yr if neither of the former two happen

 

[Calculon]

It might sound odd but the utter lack of serious injuries is a reason why prospects within the system get such little developmental time. Especially on defence although that's in part attributable to Smith's penchant for playing the puck (defencemen don't get hit as much).

It's hard to give guys like Kylington, Andersson, Mangiapane, Foo, etc., the 30-40 games they need when no one's getting injured.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Really though, what spots did we have available this year? Janks didn’t even make the team out of camp (when he clearly deserved to) because of a lack of spots. We had 1 clear spot up for grabs, and that was our #6 D spot. There was a spot on the wing for sure, but we had bodies like Hathaway and Brouwer that were ready to go.

The point being, our bottom 6 was a weakness this year. I feel like they played their best hockey when our guys from the Heat started being called up.

So yeah, I also disagree with you on this lol.

3rd line C was arguably open but they decided to try Bennett at C again, and 3RW very much was once Brouwer was glued to the 4th line. Otherwise we wouldn't have immediately signed Jagr.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I do think if a rookie impresses in training camp and shows some staying power early on next season, then Lazar is as good as gone, as in for future considerations gone.


As for free agency, it was never going to be the answer for the Flames. It seldom is for any team. I don't really think Treliving is chomping at the bit to give JvR a Gaudreau contract. You either go for Tavares if he decides to test the waters, go for a bottom 6er (see Derek Ryan), or try to see if you can lure Thornton for 1 yr if neither of the former two happen

I think Neal is a possible target for a bigger dollar, shorter term contract.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Backlund-Ferland
Bennett-Jankowski-Frolik
etc.

And if one of Mangiapane/Dube/Foo comes along and forces Ferland/Bennett/Jankowski down the roster, that's just pure gravy at that point.

Alternatively, TSN just covered that Skinner, Nino, Coyle and Zucker are all likely available. Can't help but wonder if we can move Brodie for one of the latter three as a basis. Then if we still picked up a Neal or Tavares all of a sudden our depth up front is nuts.

I'd love having Skinner if they think we can re-sign him to an affordable deal, but I genuinely don't know what we could offer Carolina that they'd want and we'd be willing to give up.

 

[Volica]

Skinner played his worst years under Peters, I doubt we'd make that move; unless there's something behind the curtain we don't know about.
Tavares should still be target #1 for this team.

Makes us an instant competitor.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Skinner played his worst years under Peters, I doubt we'd make that move; unless there's something behind the curtain we don't know about.
Tavares should still be target #1 for this team.

Makes us an instant competitor.

True. I just really like Skinner haha.

 

[Volica]

I think what the Golden Knights have proven, is you need depth, and a lot of it.
Calgary is so damn shallow, having guys playing spots much higher than they should.

Like, with another scoring top 2C, moving Backs down to that third line; makes that line dominant.
Calgary needs to shed dead weight, and get some pieces that can chip in. Like to me, you find room for Andrew Mangiapane; there's skill and scoring there. No reason guys like Garnet Hathaway or Curtis Lazar should find ice over him.

If we moved Dougie, I'd rather trade him for an equivalent top centre, than a RW.