Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: Jagrbombs all around

[Skobel24]

Unfortunately nobody is as high on Flames prospects as you are. Mangiapane has less trade value than a used puck.

Also, team just dont trade their good prospects for others

What the f*** is this? A 21 year old prospect doing really well in the AHL has no value? He might not have a ton of value (he wouldn't land someone like Sprong or Kapanen), but to claim he has less value than a used puck is just ignorant.

 

[DFF]

What the **** is this? A 21 year old prospect doing really well in the AHL has no value? He might not have a ton of value (he wouldn't land someone like Sprong or Kapanen), but to claim he has less value than a used puck is just ignorant.

Show me an example of a 6th rounder traded for something of value before he does something in the NHL

 

[FerklundCGY]

Unfortunately nobody is as high on Flames prospects as you are. Mangiapane has less trade value than a used puck.

Also, team just dont trade their good prospects for others

I'm sorry, but this post is just brutal.

A good prospect has no trade value?

Lol

 

[DFF]

I'm sorry, but this post is just brutal.

A good prospect has no trade value?

Lol

He has more value to the Flames...not much outside unless he shows what he can do in the NHL. The Flames have not even given him a shot

His good AHL stats in 10 games mean nothing

What brutal is the idiots that think they can get something that can help the Flames more by trading him

 

[Skobel24]

He has more value to the Flames...not much outside unless he shows what he can do in the NHL. The Flames have not even given him a shot

His good AHL stats in 10 games mean nothing

What brutal is the idiots that think they can get something that can help the Flames more by trading him

You might be surprised to hear this, but a players value can go up or down after being drafted. Right now, Mangiapane is doing really well for a 6th round pick. He had a solid rookie year in the AHL, and looks even better this year. Him being

Again, I'm not saying they could trade him and get a top 6 RW or anything like that. He wouldn't be the main piece in a trade, but to say he has no value is ridiculous.

Edit: Also to clarify, I think the idea of trading him right now is kind of odd as well, as he alone wouldn't bring in anything significant that really fills a need (top 6 RW).

 

[Dertell]

Show me an example of a 6th rounder traded for something of value before he does something in the NHL

Dylan Ferguson and Nikita Gusev were both 7th rounders traded four months ago for something of value before they did something in the NHL

 

[Baxterman]

Dylan Ferguson and Nikita Gusev were both 7th rounders traded four months ago for something of value before they did something in the NHL

Both were traded with 2nd rounders and Gusev was traded for future considerations so hardly a big value there.

 

[Dertell]

Both were traded with 2nd rounders and Gusev was traded for future considerations so hardly a big value there.

That 2nd rounder for Methot will be picked in three years. And Gusev wasn't traded for future considerations.

 

[Baxterman]

That 2nd rounder for Methot will be picked in three years. And Gusev wasn't traded for future considerations.

Well then Gusev was traded for nothing along with a 2nd round puck which was/is much more valuable then him and even if the pick was 20 years from now it is still much more valuable then Ferguson.

The examples show how little value they have.

 

[Dertell]

Well then Gusev was traded for nothing along with a 2nd round puck which was/is much more valuable then him

this doesn't make any sense

and even if the pick was 20 years from now it is still much more valuable then Ferguson.

That's, like, just your opinion.

They were part of a package but that doesn't change anything; Why would Vegas ask for them to be included in the deals for something of value (or to not take something of value which is the same) if they didn't value them?

 

[Dack]

To add to that Mangiapanes even strength scoring in his draft year (2013-2014) was really good and in line with a lot of the players picked in the 1st and 2nd rounds. He hardly got any power play time and spent they year in the middle six because he was on a deep team. He out produced his teammate Brendan Lemuix at even strength and Lemuix went 31st partially because he's big and mean but still. He also out produced Perlini (11th overall) and was just a few points shy of Dal Colle at even strength.

He's since made every step in progression we could ask for. I'd rather not trade him at this point. But I think he has some value at least. Gms were calling for Gaudreau when he was tearing apart the NCAA and while Mangiapane definitely doesn't have Gaudreau value he still should be valued decently.

 

[Baxterman]

this doesn't make any sense

That's, like, just your opinion.

They were part of a package but that doesn't change anything; Why would Vegas ask for them to be included in the deals for something of value (or to not take something of value which is the same) if they didn't value them?

Who did TB get back in return in the Gusev deal? Looks like nobody and no picks so he was traded for nobody.

Mainly because putting a prospects name out there for fans is better than nothing. Plus perhaps he can fill a spot in their farm system at some point. But considering that Ferguson spent last season as a back-up in the WHL and this year has bad numbers so far I can't think that Vegas was dying to get him or willing to call off the deal if he wasn't there. But you are right that is just my opinion. It is possible they see him as valuable as Sidney Crosby.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I said this a few years ago and people laughed at me, but I think he can become a Mats Zuccarello type player.

If there is one thing this team needs, it’s an offensive player with creativity.

 

[Anglesmith]

Who did TB get back in return in the Gusev deal? Looks like nobody and no picks so he was traded for nobody.

But this was an expansion draft consideration, so it's not really fair to consider it that way. The return in the deal was shedding Garrison's contract. Effectively, they traded Gusev and picks for $4.6M in cap space.

 

[Baxterman]

But this was an expansion draft consideration, so it's not really fair to consider it that way. The return in the deal was shedding Garrison's contract. Effectively, they traded Gusev and picks for $4.6M in cap space.

Ok they got something but not much. I find it hard to see a ton of value in Gusev using that deal as an example.

And I think it makes a ton more sense to keep Mangiapane as his value is similar in that we aren't getting something back that makes sense to give up on him.

 

[Anglesmith]

Ok they got something but not much. I find it hard to see a ton of value in Gusev using that deal as an example.

And I think it makes a ton more sense to keep Mangiapane as his value is similar in that we aren't getting something back that makes sense to give up on him.

I agree. It's the same thing I said about Backlund a few years ago. No sense moving a guy when his value to the team is more than his perceived value in the eyes of other GMs.

 

[Flameshomer]

Am I the only one that's extremely perplexed by the recent focus/insistence on RHS in the forward group? I totally get the justification that Gulu uses for the D pairs, but the forwards should be a bit more interchangeable, if anything playing off-wing gives the shooter a way better angle on the net (if away from a defender...)

In that vein, we should absolutely keep one of our best wing prospects instead of trading him. If he can't play RW for whatever reason, we have seen proof that johnny excels there, so bump him over. I would love to see a Mangiapane-Janko-Jagr line or something similar. Or:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Jagr
Mangiapane-Lazar-Hathaway

IMO Mangi looks like he could be just as good or better than Versteeg. We won't know until he's here for sure, but he looks great this year.

 

[Skobel24]

Just realized the Flames are 3rd last in goals for. Nashville has 1 less goal, but one less game. Oilers have 6 less goals, but two less games.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Just realized the Flames are 3rd in goals for. Nashville has 1 less goal, but one less game. Oilers have 6 less goals, but two less games.

No point comparing totals mid-season. Flames are 30th in G/GP at the moment, while Oilers are 31st. At least in Calgary we know the team is underperforming, I'm not so sure about Edmonton as they just seem to lack anything past their top line.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Yeah gotta go with OKG on this one. We are second last in the league, averaging 2.25 goals a game. That's bad. We are only .05 ahead of the Oilers.

In twelve games we've been shutout twice, scored 1 or less in 4 games, and 2 or less in 8 games. That's unacceptable.

You take out the 6 goal game against Winnipeg and our GPG falls to 1.9 goals per game. Hell, to be more fair if you take away that game and a shutout against to make it more fair, we are at 2.1 GPG.

Really not sure what you were going for Skobel.

 

[Skobel24]

Yeah gotta go with OKG on this one. We are second last in the league, averaging 2.25 goals a game. That's bad. We are only .05 ahead of the Oilers.

In twelve games we've been shutout twice, scored 1 or less in 4 games, and 2 or less in 8 games. That's unacceptable.

You take out the 6 goal game against Winnipeg and our GPG falls to 1.9 goals per game. Hell, to be more fair if you take away that game and a shutout against to make it more fair, we are at 2.1 GPG.

Really not sure what you were going for Skobel.

I'm saying something severely needs to change. Scoring at just over 2 goals per game is f***ing ridiculous, especially when the two teams behind the Flames are likely going to pass them. Offensively, this team is one of the worst in the league.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I'm saying something severely needs to change. Scoring at just over 2 goals per game is ****ing ridiculous, especially when the two teams behind the Flames are likely going to pass them. Offensively, this team is one of the worst in the league.

Wait did you mean to say 3rd last in goals for? Cause the way you said it makes it sound like you were saying they were 3rd best unless I'm reading it wrong.

 

[Skobel24]

Wait did you mean to say 3rd last in goals for? Cause the way you said it makes it sound like you were saying they were 3rd best unless I'm reading it wrong.

I tried to sneak in a ninja edit just now. I failed. I did mean to write 3rd last, but forgot to write 'last'

 

[Calculon]

Not surprising. The bottom six is contributing nothing while the 3M line seems to be producing slightly below normal. Lucky for the Flames that Gaudreau's on pace for a career year otherwise things would be dire.

This is why the Flames kind of really needed Bennett to pan out; Versteeg's cold, cold and occasionally warm, Jagr's old while Jankowski's going to take a while to acclimate offensively. Gulutzan seems to be in love with fringe fourth liners that contribute nothing offensively so not much hope there.

This is also why the obsession with stacking the top line is really, really dumb. The top line's not the problem; it's the bottom six and it's lack of offense that's going to cost the Flames the the division and almost certainly a deep playoff run. Unfortunately Treliving already spent a ton of assets on improving the defense, so any solutions will almost certainly have to come from within.

 

[DFF]

I'm saying something severely needs to change. Scoring at just over 2 goals per game is ****ing ridiculous, especially when the two teams behind the Flames are likely going to pass them. Offensively, this team is one of the worst in the league.

It happens when you have only 2 lines

Other than Gaudreau, the Flames do not have top end talent.

They rely on contribution from 4 lines

Currently they only have one line contributing, one line below average and 2 useless lines