Player Discussion: Andrew Copp, the unsung hero

[DannyGallivan]

He is weak defensively at RW, where he is accustomed to playing. He doesn't seem to have much idea how to play defense as a C.

This idea keeps coming up because he didn't look too bad at C a couple of years ago when he filled in for Scheif, but a deeper look at that stint showed that he was actually pretty bad.

If all it took to make a C out of a winger was learning to take FOs there wouldn't be so much of a premium on Cs. There wouldn't be so many Cs who are forced to become wingers in the NHL.

He is weak defensively at RW, where he is accustomed to playing. He doesn't seem to have much idea how to play defense as a C.

This idea keeps coming up because he didn't look too bad at C a couple of years ago when he filled in for Scheif, but a deeper look at that stint showed that he was actually pretty bad.

If all it took to make a C out of a winger was learning to take FOs there wouldn't be so much of a premium on Cs. There wouldn't be so many Cs who are forced to become wingers in the NHL.

I was looking at it more from the point that he is an elite forward, he's big, he's fast and he's strong. He's also a veteran. It's much easier for a talented finesse player to learn defense than the other way around. I understand that Copp would be a responsible defensive minded presence as the second line center, but I don't see him as a particularly creative player offensively.

... at this point, we have to look outside the box, and giving Wheeler another shot at center may be a solution.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You mean the stats that are then used to then say the Copp ~= Scheifele? Sorry.

Like I said, I like Copp. He is doing his job well. Will he turn into a C that gets over 40 points 8 years in a row? (exclude lockout) IDK. Kind of doubt it, but maybe. Sure hope he does. By 25, you can pretty much see how well someone can handle the puck. If he gets the chance at 2C , I wish him all the success in the world.

I agree he doesn't look like the prototypical top 6 C. Until he gets a chance there and succeeds - which he has done in very limited opportunities. So he fails the pre-test eye-test. That is not enough reason to not TRY him and see what happens in the face of all the indications that he just MIGHT succeed.

He will never be flashy, but he might be effective. If not, nothing lost.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Copp definitely fits better with Laine than Little does. He did play a few games with Copp previous season and it was actually pretty good. Much better fit than Little. Jets won't acquire a 2C so they should give Copp a fair chance at it. He is better than Little.

I don't think Laine will be satisfied unless both or at least one of Scheifele and Wheeler are on his line.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

The Buff thing is what pushes it over the edge. Both for weakening the team and for the loss of entertainment. Without that we could hope to score enough to win enough games. We would have had 2 years to rebuild the D corps with quite a few strong prospects.

Even without Buff we could add Niku, Samberg, Heinola by next year. Pionk could improve. Kovacevic and/or Gawanke could strengthen the right side. If we use Buff's cap to sign 1 UFA RHD next off-season the D rebuild could be adequately finished. But this year is going to be tough sledding.

Even Stanley looks like he could be a serviceable 3rd line pairing by next season.
I agree next season, with in house prospects, the Jets blue line should actually be decent. Just need to take a deep breath this season and hope Chevy doesn't trade from a position of weakness and lose a long term top 3 winger for a mediocre short term defenseman to fill a gap.

I think Copp could be a solid 3rd line center, I also don't see the harm during preseason to play him on the 2nd line and see how he does.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

kettle meet pot. I mean he has been here for 5 years he isn't a top 6 player.

So you say. But WHY?

He has succeeded when given the chance. What have we got to lose by trying him? At the very worst we at least give him the satisfaction of the opportunity and he accepts his role, instead of resenting the fact he hasn't been given the opportunity.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I was looking at it more from the point that he is an elite forward, he's big, he's fast and he's strong. He's also a veteran. It's much easier for a talented finesse player to learn defense than the other way around. I understand that Copp would be a responsible defensive minded presence as the second line center, but I don't see him as a particularly creative player offensively.

... at this point, we have to look outside the box, and giving Wheeler another shot at center may be a solution.

I'm a lot more skeptical of Wheeler at C than I am of Copp at 2C. Copp actually is a proven C. I agree that he won't be particularly creative. I don't see that as a necessity at all, especially with the creative wingers he would have. He needs to be able to respond to their creativity and that is what we don't know if he could do or not.

Copp is not as tall as Wheeler but he is also big, fast and strong - and a veteran. Wheeler is a good passer. I don't think of him as a finesse player though. More of a power forward. Just my way of seeing him. But I think I see more finesse from Copp. Not the kind of finesse that comes with fancy puck skills. More the kind that comes from HIQ, finessing himself into the right positions.

In the end I think Copp at 2C would come down to chemistry with whichever wingers he was with. If he can anticipate their play and be in the right spots to enable them, he will succeed. I think that is where Little fails. He isn't in the right places at the right times often enough with the wingers he gets.

 

[ffh]

So you say. But WHY?

He has succeeded when given the chance. What have we got to lose by trying him? At the very worst we at least give him the satisfaction of the opportunity and he accepts his role, instead of resenting the fact he hasn't been given the opportunity.

I think you assume he thinks he can play on the 2nd line. I doubt he believes he can play on the 2nd line. he has a very good idea what he is and that's not a scoring centre since he never was one at any point in his career. if they were going to try him there they would have already. him and lowry will always play on 3rd line here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Even Stanley looks like he could be a serviceable 3rd line pairing by next season.
I agree next season, with in house prospects, the Jets blue line should actually be decent. Just need to take a deep breath this season and hope Chevy doesn't trade from a position of weakness and lose a long term top 3 winger for a mediocre short term defenseman to fill a gap.

I think Copp could be a solid 3rd line center, I also don't see the harm during preseason to play him on the 2nd line and see how he does.

I forgot Stanley, with Samberg and Heinola in the pipeline but yes, he is a definite prospect. I wonder if he could play his off side?

I think we will need to go after one of next year's crop of UFA RHD men. Unless quite a few sign before the end of the season there is going to be a good selection. That should also depress prices at least a bit.

Certainly we should be looking at Copp at 2C in the pre-season. I don't see any reason not to give him a solid look during regular season too. At worst is he going to be so much worse than the alternative that he costs us a PO spot? That would have to assume we are making the PO in the first place and then he would have to be very bad to make that big a difference. If he is that bad, the experiment could be terminated.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think you assume he thinks he can play on the 2nd line. I doubt he believes he can play on the 2nd line. he has a very good idea what he is and that's not a scoring centre since he never was one at any point in his career. if they were going to try him there they would have already. him and lowry will always play on 3rd line here.

You may be right that he doesn't see himself as a scorer, I wouldn't know. You are wrong that I assume he does. I never even considered it. I don't assume he can be either. I just want to see it tried because he has played very well in ALL the roles he has had so far. So why not see what he can do? I've asked several times in this thread, what have we got to lose? What's the worst that could happen?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think Laine will be satisfied unless both or at least one of Scheifele and Wheeler are on his line.

I expect you are right. But if Copp was put as his C and it worked, I think he would come around.

 

[DashingDane]

I'd be interested in seeing Copp between Connor and Rosie... Then you could run Laine-Chef-Wheels and Frenchie-Little-Ehlers or PSL and ELW.

 

[Psych0dad]

I don't think Laine will be satisfied unless both or at least one of Scheifele and Wheeler are on his line.

Don't see him needing Wheeler, but he sure worked great with Scheifele so that should be the combination they go with. Connor-Copp-Wheeler ftw

 

[Eyeseeing]

Copp is the Swiss Army knife forward.
With high skill players he gets and converts opportunities.
With lesser skill forwards he is the defensive conscience.
He can play up he can play down.
Might as well try him in a second line situation until Laine and Connor sign.
Versatility is a great asset.

 

[ffh]

If I didn't know any better I would say this is 2018 pre season and the roslovic love has changed to copp love. The only question though to be answered is who will be on the line with copp and Lowry.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Picture the play in the last game where copps play on the boards got possession of the puck and knew where wheeler was all at the same time and sent a beautiful pass for wheelers one timer.

I see no reason he couldn't be feeding Laine the exact same way.

Then his heads up play to get open for Niku’s beautiful pass.

I think he might have it in him. Worth a try!

 

[JetsUK]

If I didn't know any better I would say this is 2018 pre season and the roslovic love has changed to copp love. The only question though to be answered is who will be on the line with copp and Lowry.

I think one difference is that Copper is at the top tier already in terms of his D-game, and has been very consistent over the past few years, where Roslo has struggled a bit more to carve out an ID as a player and put up the results to match his early promise (no reason why he shouldn't get there). I think Roslo has a high ceiling but not sure he's shown it yet as a centre at the NHL level. Maybe this is the year -- then we'd have some nice strength down the middle.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Throw roslovic and copp both into 2c and let them fight it out! May the better 2c win!

 

[The Blue Baron]

Copp sure gets pretty SUNG up on this board so I do not know what the heck all this complaining is about.
Unsung Jet player? No, he gets the praise he about deserves to this point.

 

[Hunter368]

Throw roslovic and copp both into 2c and let them fight it out! May the better 2c win!

Like to see both get a shot at 2C, don't see either as a 75pt guys.......but both could still be decent 2C. Copp is better defensively & physically. Roslovic is better offensively.

 

[Jimby]

I agree. Wheeler at centre was good for a couple of days. After that many of us wished he was back on the wing.

I'm a lot more skeptical of Wheeler at C than I am of Copp at 2C.

 

[bennylundholm]

This Copp love is beyond ridiculous, anyone who understands hockey clearly should realize that a certain level of skill both puck and stick skill is essential for a top 6 role neither of which Copp possesses!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you play with talented players your stats will greatly improve.
Copp has been playing with Appleton, Lowry, Tanev, etc and had zero pp time.
Switch Put Scheif in that position and I'd venture his point total would be similar to Copp.
The advanced stats point to Copp being a top 6 player who is extremely good defensively, a true playoff performer.
To dismiss Copp as a potential valuable top 6 forward is irresponsible.

 

[NotCommitted]

I'm a big fan of Copp and he never disappointed me in any role. I even liked him in the first line with Scheife and Laine in 16-17, but injury cut that stint very short... that line was together for whole 2 periods I think Jets should have enough high-end offensive wingers to create a balanced line with someone like Copp. Besides Copp seems like a guy who understand what he needs to do in a given role, he could create space and get pucks to the high-skill guys he's centering. I have a feeling Copp wouldn't mind having to do the dirty-work while doubling/tripling his point production.

 

[ps241]

This Copp love is beyond ridiculous, anyone who understands hockey clearly should realize that a certain level of skill both puck and stick skill is essential for a top 6 role neither of which Copp possesses!

Zach Hyman says hello.

 

[Halberdier]

Copp sure gets pretty SUNG up on this board so I do not know what the heck all this complaining is about.
Unsung Jet player? No, he gets the praise he about deserves to this point.

He was unsung hero for years. Now we are singing praises for Copp, but that was not the case 1 year ago. (Though I was one of those who held Copp very high)

He is still underrated player, but much less so than 1 year ago. It did hurt to hear Maurice's comments though, as he certainly underrates the guy.

 

[ps241]

You know what I love about Copp. We pay $2.28 million dollars for the guy and we get way more value than that. He is the reverse of Connor. With Kyle who I love the market will command close to $7 million for a one trick pony.

I would love if we did a trading places for one year for fun. Pull a Babcock and Drop Kyle to the 3rd line with Lowry and put Copp on the left wing beside Wheeler (or Laine) and Scheif. Our 1st line loses the soft finishing touch of Kyle but they gain a much more rounded player and become way tougher to play against in all three zones. My guess is the first line would be more effective since they kind of sucked in their own zone for the last half of the season and spent too much time there. Leafs deploy this method of two skilled guys and a complimentary asset and they build a top 9 with more balance.

The good news if Kyle is actually worth $7 million surely he can score with Lowry and maybe Rosi in our top 9. If he can’t score 20-25 goals without Scheif and Wheeler then why are we paying him so much?

Vegas is living prof that sometimes guys just get miscast on teams and if they play up they can rise to the occasion. Copp’s PP/60 would indicate he is far from a stone hands player and I think he would be fine playing up because he is actually a rounded talent.

In the cap era bang for the buck wise you can’t beat the Copp type asset.