Player Discussion: Andrew Copp, the unsung hero

[Howard Chuck]

Like most of my confusion around player usage, we can't absolutely say that a player can or can't perform in a certain role, until they are tried in that role.

Copp's stats certainly show that he is worth a shot at 2C. I honestly don't think he would be worse than Little, but that's what a trial would show.

He might not have Little's faceoff prowess.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why would limited minutes affect your goals for %?

Also, he hasn't really been sheltered all that much; he was used in 2017-18 on a shutdown line VS league's other top lines.

Hard to argue with these results IMO. Would love to see him tried with more opportunity. It would also open up a ton of options.

Connor - Copp - Roslovic
Perreault - Copp - Laine

Ehlers - Scheifele - Wheeler
Connor - Copp - Laine

Ehlers helps Scheifele and Wheeler play better. That has already been demonstrated. He improves that line defensively. Copp helps the 2nd line defensively. Connor cleans up the opportunities created by Laine.

I think the interesting possibilities created come from freeing up Little to strengthen the 3rd line.
Perreault - Little - Roslovic, Perreault - Roslovic - Little, other.

Lowry plays 4C, which is probably where he really belongs despite Mau's Lowry love.

We could have 3 scoring lines and a VG 4th line that can play 8-10 minutes at evens, depending on ST time.

 

[Whileee]

I think the reason Maurice is playing Copp on LW is that he wants both Copp and Little to play top-9 minutes. If Copp goes to C, that puts Little to the 4th line.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I like what we did today with Copp-Lowry-Wheeler. They can switch off on faceoffs and you even saw them switch off on forechecking. That line has a lot of versatility and may get Wheeler back to playing a 200 foot game.

Agree, but it doesn't solve 2C.

And maybe it was just another illustration of Copp's ability.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Copp should just be handed the 2C job. But he has earned a trial there. A serious one.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

What was the Jets arb offer for Copp, $1.5M? Does that sound like they see him as a 2C? I will be very surprised if he doesn't spend most of the season as a Lowry wing man.

 

[EpicGingy]

What was the Jets arb offer for Copp, $1.5M? Does that sound like they see him as a 2C? I will be very surprised if he doesn't spend most of the season as a Lowry wing man.

It sounds like they're trying to get him for the lowest price possible regardless of what they actually think of his performance.

He could very well spend the whole season on Lowry's wing but I don't think you can ever read much into what a team's arbitration offer is with the way the system is set up.

 

[Whileee]

What was the Jets arb offer for Copp, $1.5M? Does that sound like they see him as a 2C? I will be very surprised if he doesn't spend most of the season as a Lowry wing man.

They paid him based on his previous contributions.

But I think the issue is that they don't see either Little or Copp as 4C, so one of them has to play on the wing. They really don't have space on RW for Little with Wheeler, Laine and Roslovic there.


1a) Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
1b) Copp-Lowry-Wheeler
3) Connor-Little-Roslovic
4) Perreault-Letestu-Appleton

 

[Daximus]

They paid him based on his previous contributions.

But I think the issue is that they don't see either Little or Copp as 4C, so one of them has to play on the wing. They really don't have space on RW for Little with Wheeler, Laine and Roslovic there.


1a) Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
1b) Copp-Lowry-Wheeler
3) Connor-Little-Roslovic
4) Perreault-Letestu-Appleton

I honestly liked Spaceks game more than Letestus. Suess as well.

 

[ffh]

What was the Jets arb offer for Copp, $1.5M? Does that sound like they see him as a 2C? I will be very surprised if he doesn't spend most of the season as a Lowry wing man.

neither by the way does the arbitrator see cop as a top 6 player by his decision. Same as last year hearing how roslovic was going to be 2c. Bottom 6 player like roslovic.

 

[Board Bard]

5 years of pro coaches watching him practice and play every game seems like a good way of determining if he can play higher up in the lineup.

That explains perfectly why he hasn't been given a real opportunity.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It must have been a rough offseason if we are trying to turn Copp into a Hero. He does his job but come on, man.

Are you kidding? It has been an incredibly rough off-season. Epic.
Two thirds of our starting 6 D men - gone.
Our top "energy" forward - gone.
Two of our top 4 wingers, our 2nd and 3rd goal scorers, unsigned and absent from TC.
When was the last time a team had an off-season that bad - well, any team not owned by Eugene Melnyk?

Why not try it? Really, even without this kind of analysis, why the hell not? He is a good face-off man. He is good defensively and he has had very good results in very limited opportunities with skilled players. Then consider how poorly the status quo has worked and it becomes crazy that he hasn't been tried seriously as an option. Just NUTS.

 

[Robinson2187]

I've always liked Copper but I was looking at him through lunchpail glasses. He probably does get a shot higher up this year just due to there being nobody else.

 

[Whileee]

I honestly liked Spaceks game more than Letestus. Suess as well.

I agree, but you need to incorporate the "veteran coefficient".

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

My point of view is that we will never find out because we never give anyone a chance to improve the Jets' situations. We have a need to fix the second line (because we probably aren't going to get Wheeler to play with Little) so we have Roslovic and Copp. What do we have to lose?

Copp looked great last night playing with better linemates. Who knows?

Among other arguments - we have nothing to lose.

Also among other arguments - this is going to be the year to try every experiment.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I remember the howls of rage around here when Copp was given time on the first line after the injury bug hit a few years ago. Interesting how times change.

Copp may get a chance higher up in the lineup if the Connor/Laine holdout extends for a couple more weeks into the regular season.

It shouldn't require that.

I don't particularly want to see him at 2LW with Little and Roslovic. I want to see him at 2C with Connor and Laine.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I tend to agree with the results crowd. His offensive contributions just don't scream top 6. If we mention linemates, then we have to do that with every player, including those currently having linemates as a major mudslinging point during their hold-out.

I'd give him a preseason game at centre with ehlers and roslovic or something. I prefer his centre game to his wing game.

It isn't just linemates. It is also role. He has done what was asked of him - which only included offence as a secondary thing. When he was played with skilled linemates his offence DID scream top 6.

We don't have to do that with every other player. Every other player is not the best untried option we have to fix a known problem.

One game, pre-season or not, isn't enough to prove or disprove anything. You could give him one game with Kucherov and Draisaitl on his wings and he might not score. You could put me between Kucherov and Draisaitl and I just might. And that is ridiculous.

The bolded speaks for itself.

 

[DashingDane]

Copp was one of the only shining lights in fairly depressing last season. If that doesn't translate to more opportunity I really don't know what a player can do to "earn" it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't want to beat a dead horse but didn't petan and dano have good points/60 also. it means nothing unless you play full time to compare to someone who does. connor is in a different league then copp. connor is a 1st liner and copp is a 4th liner.

So ...... play him full time for a while so that you can compare. Pretty easy question to answer. Just try.

What have we got to lose? Just how bad could he possibly be, at worst?

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Are you kidding? It has been an incredibly rough off-season. Epic.
Two thirds of our starting 6 D men - gone.
Our top "energy" forward - gone.
Two of our top 4 wingers, our 2nd and 3rd goal scorers, unsigned and absent from TC.
When was the last time a team had an off-season that bad - well, any team not owned by Eugene Melnyk?

Why not try it? Really, even without this kind of analysis, why the hell not? He is a good face-off man. He is good defensively and he has had very good results in very limited opportunities with skilled players. Then consider how poorly the status quo has worked and it becomes crazy that he hasn't been tried seriously as an option. Just NUTS.

I know it was a rough off-season. Didn't think an emoji was required for that one.

I don't have any idea what you are asking me. Why the hell not what?

 

[Duke749]

I really don’t think this offseason has been some kind of epic train wreck. But that’s just my perspective. Maybe I’m numb to sports pain after watching the Falcons and UGA lose the way they did in consecutive years and see my hockey team move to Winnipeg.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

You could put me between Kucherov and Draisaitl and I just might.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I know it was a rough off-season. Didn't think an emoji was required for that one.

I don't have any idea what you are asking me. Why the hell not what?

It wasn't just a rough off-season though. It was an extreme.

Why not try Copp at 2C?

Speculation that he will fail is not a reason to not try it. That is a reason to not continue it after an adequate trial period. Certainly it could be tried in pre-season when there isn't even anything on the line.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hey, I didn't say it was likely. One could go in off my helmet while I was flat on my ass.

 

[Duke749]

It wasn't just a rough off-season though. It was an extreme.

Why not try Copp at 2C?

Speculation that he will fail is not a reason to not try it. That is a reason to not continue it after an adequate trial period. Certainly it could be tried in pre-season when there isn't even anything on the line.

You’re starting to not sound like Mort. Did someone hack your account for the post count?

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

It wasn't just a rough off-season though. It was an extreme.

Why not try Copp at 2C?

Speculation that he will fail is not a reason to not try it. That is a reason to not continue it after an adequate trial period. Certainly it could be tried in pre-season when there isn't even anything on the line.

Well, for all the Little hate on this board I still see him as a better C than Copp. I see Copp as a solid bottom sixer. Maybe there is upside there that will start to show more this year. I think the right answer is to split up Nickels and Wheels and redo the lines accordingly. But if he gets a few starts higher up the lineup and makes good on it, great for him. I will be happy. I do acknowledge that even though Little (imho) is a better C than Copp, he and Laine don't click.

So if it is about how to help Laine, given what I believe is a public ultimatum by Laine and his agent about utilization, I don't think Patrick would take well to playing with Copp.

"Hey Patrick, you are really important to us as we have been telling you all summer (even though we weren't willing to talk about your contract until a couple weeks ago - there is an innocent explanation for that - trust us). Listen, you are so important that we have heard your concern, we understand you want more time playing on the top line, and so we are going to put you with Copp. Now that we have solved that problem, here is the contract please - sign on the bottom line"