Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[10Ducky10]

Mittlestadt early struggles in Buffalo is a good comparison I think? Similar draft capital, both guys had great IQ but not fast or big. Always seemed similar to me.

Mitts played in the NHL before he was ready.
He was eventually sent down but never should have been up in the NHL at the beginning of his career.

 

[JetsUK]

The unfortunate thing for Perfetti is that the team is in two drastically different places from when bambi broke in.

If we were a bottom third team that couldn't make the playoffs I guarantee Cole would have gotten the 55 treatment

Mark Scheifele was The First. He was going to get every single opportunity and an infinity of coaching rope to show he belonged in the show, and that the Jets 2.0 (and their scouting staff) did also.

No other Jets 2.0 player ever did or ever will receive the 55 treatment, IMO. Scheifele was sui generis.

Fortunately, he turned out just fine.

 

[NA Hockey]

I also don't know if Scheifele went 20+ games w/o a goal, or 40 or so games with like 10-15pts but may be wrong. 49 pts back then is a bit different vs now- back then you're a top-100 scorer. now you're closer to 130s-140s (using 22-23 rankings).

Mark went 23 games without a goal in 2013-14 and his point totals for his first two seasons are similar to Cole's first two and Mark was a year older and had more favourable deployment and PP time.

2013-14	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	63	13	21	34	14	9	|
2014-15	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	82	15	34	49	24	11	|

 

[roccerfeller]

Cole will be fine when he is ready.

I still think he was a steal at 10th overall

 

[Jet]

Mark Scheifele was The First. He was going to get every single opportunity and an infinity of coaching rope to show he belonged in the show, and that the Jets 2.0 (and their scouting staff) did also.

No other Jets 2.0 player ever did or ever will receive the 55 treatment, IMO. Scheifele was sui generis.

Fortunately, he turned out just fine.

I don't know, if we're bad and lacking depth, I can see the org giving a top 10 pick the same runway.

I dint think the org ever plans to be that bad though. It looks like we're trying to time out reloads through our development system while staying competitive which makes me happy.

 

[KingBogo]

Mark Scheifele was The First. He was going to get every single opportunity and an infinity of coaching rope to show he belonged in the show, and that the Jets 2.0 (and their scouting staff) did also.

No other Jets 2.0 player ever did or ever will receive the 55 treatment, IMO. Scheifele was sui generis.

Fortunately, he turned out just fine.

I'd argue the Jets prospect who got the best VIP treatment by the organization was Trouba. Signed as a 19 y/o and immediately slotted in behind Buff as the #2 RHD. There was absolutely no audition period for him. But like Sheifele who they left in juniors for 2 full seasons, the team was devoid of enough NHL talent to be competitive and needed to inject their prospects quickly. Scheifele was also a true center and 6.3 with more of a NHL build for a #1 center. That goes a long way with the physical demands of that role.

 

[Atoyot]

If Perfetti is going to be a healthy scratch, send him to the Moose. I'm not going to get into the debate of whether he should be in the lineup and where, if he's not in it, if the plan is to not have him in it, send him to the Moose.

 

[KingBogo]

If Perfetti is going to be a healthy scratch, send him to the Moose. I'm not going to get into the debate of whether he should be in the lineup and where, if he's not in it, if the plan is to not have him in it, send him to the Moose.

So you really want to shove his face in it? The absolute last thing he wants is that indignity. Right now he is unhappy, you do that he is now embarrassed. These guys are pros and can handle setbacks. The kid will get back in at some point, but in the PB he is still part of the team. You send him to the Moose he isn't.

 

[Atoyot]

So you really want to shove his face in it? The absolute last thing he wants is that indignity. Right now he is unhappy, you do that he is now embarrassed. These guys are pros and can handle setbacks. The kid will get back in at some point, but in the PB he is still part of the team. You send him to the Moose he isn't.

How is playing meaningful hockey more embarrassing than not playing hockey at all? Moose play in the same arena as the Jets, he can be up quickly if needed. Guy needs to get some confidence and he's not going to get it in the press box or playing on the 4th line.

 

[KingBogo]

How is playing meaningful hockey more embarrassing than not playing hockey at all? Moose play in the same arena as the Jets, he can be up quickly if needed. Guy needs to get some confidence and he's not going to get it in the press box or playing on the 4th line.

The difference is the NHL and the AHL. In the NHL you are part of the team. You are in the room and on the road with the team. You practice, skate and are in meetings. In the AHL you become completely separate. You are now traveling with the farm team and no longer part of the playoff drive. Never mind you have just reduced the kid's take home pay by 90%, so now you have added that financial burden on him.

 

[Atoyot]

The difference is the NHL and the AHL. In the NHL you are part of the team. You are in the room and on the road with the team. You practice, skate and are in meetings. In the AHL you become completely separate. You are now traveling with the farm team and no longer part of the playoff drive. Never mind you have just reduced the kid's take home pay by 90%, so now you have added that financial burden on him.

Disagree entirely, minus the financial burden, but it's not hard for him to understand that playing and improving is better for his financial future than not playing entirely. Where's this logic with Heinola?

 

[KingBogo]

Disagree entirely, minus the financial burden, but it's not hard for him to understand that playing and improving is better for his financial future than not playing entirely. Where's this logic with Heinola?

Playing on the Moose doesn't add anything to his future and probably pulls down his game. If he sags going down and doesn't produce he starts to jeopardize his career. He is well past that and is facing a tough spot. He will get his shots and hopefully he makes the most of them. I'll guarantee you Cole would argue against you with every breath in his body.

 

[Atoyot]

Playing on the Moose doesn't add anything to his future and probably pulls down his game. If he sags going down and doesn't produce he starts to jeopardize his career. He is well past that and is facing a tough spot. He will get his shots and hopefully he makes the most of them. I'll guarantee you Cole would argue against you with every breath in his body.

I guarantee you he would also argue that he should be in the Jets' lineup with every breath in his body. It's not up to him to decide what's best for his development.

Again, I just disagree. He's shown he can be extremely effective playing his game at the NHL level, but his confidence is shot and he's not getting the opportunity to work through it. If he's going to get that opportunity, fine, keep him up. If he's not then send him down. It's not Perfetti vs Gustafsson, he needs to be in a position to produce. If the options are press box or 4th line, I'd rather he be in a position on the Moose to produce.

 

[KingBogo]

I guarantee you he would also argue that he should be in the Jets' lineup with every breath in his body. It's not up to him to decide what's best for his development.

Again, I just disagree. He's shown he can be extremely effective playing his game at the NHL level, but his confidence is shot and he's not getting the opportunity to work through it. If he's going to get that opportunity, fine, keep him up. If he's not then send him down. It's not Perfetti vs Gustafsson, he needs to be in a position to produce. If the options are press box or 4th line, I'd rather he be in a position on the Moose to produce.

My point is you can't do that to the kid. Producing in the AHL is meaningless after 2 1/2 seasons in the NHL. Going down to the AHL isn't going to improve his confidence no matter how well he does, and if he sags which is likely given human nature, it could destroy his confidence. Sending him to the AHL is probably one of the most risky moves the organization could make. Being in the NHL is >>> over being in the AHL, and nothing anyone says to him will change that.

 

[Atoyot]

My point is you can't do that to the kid. Producing in the AHL is meaningless after 2 1/2 seasons in the NHL. Going down to the AHL isn't going to improve his confidence no matter how well he does, and if he sags which is likely given human nature, it could destroy his confidence. Sending him to the AHL is probably one of the most risky moves the organization could make. Being in the NHL is >>> over being in the AHL, and nothing anyone says to him will change that.

Again, we'll just have to disagree. I think playing is more beneficial than not playing. Players try to come into every season with a clean slate. I don't think he can gain confidence or improve without game experience. I don't think playing on the 4th line improves his confidence.

To be clear, for developing players, I'll always believe that playing is better for their development than not playing.

 

[WolfHouse]

My point is you can't do that to the kid. Producing in the AHL is meaningless after 2 1/2 seasons in the NHL. Going down to the AHL isn't going to improve his confidence no matter how well he does, and if he sags which is likely given human nature, it could destroy his confidence. Sending him to the AHL is probably one of the most risky moves the organization could make. Being in the NHL is >>> over being in the AHL, and nothing anyone says to him will change that.

Normally I would agree...but Perfetti-Lambert-Chibrikov chemistry is something the Jets really need in a couple years - if you sell it to him as building the future core, I don't think its a huge insult. Then Perfetti gives those guys insight into the bigs - I don't think its a massive disaster.

Just make sure you call him up for the Stanley Cup run so he can PB and take it in...

 

[LowLefty]

I guarantee you he would also argue that he should be in the Jets' lineup with every breath in his body. It's not up to him to decide what's best for his development.

Again, I just disagree. He's shown he can be extremely effective playing his game at the NHL level, but his confidence is shot and he's not getting the opportunity to work through it. If he's going to get that opportunity, fine, keep him up. If he's not then send him down. It's not Perfetti vs Gustafsson, he needs to be in a position to produce. If the options are press box or 4th line, I'd rather he be in a position on the Moose to produce.

It's likely the Jets are working with him while he sits - and this might be all about a reset for him that includes working with the team in practice and working with the coaches beyond the practice routine. IMO, It's not even about development - more about getting him back to where he was - a reset.
If that is the case, working with him as part of the team might be a better option over sending him down.

Most have already stated that he had a good first half - so you'd think this is more about getting him back to that point. The Moose is not going to provide that IMO.

 

[Atoyot]

It's likely the Jets are working with him while he sits - and this might be all about a reset for him that includes working with the team in practice and working with the coaches beyond the practice routine. IMO, It's not even about development - more about getting him back to where he was - a reset.
If that is the case, working with him as part of the team might be a better option over sending him down.

Most have already stated that he had a good first half - so you'd think this is more about getting him back to that point. The Moose is not going to provide that IMO.

Again, if that's the case, great. I think he should be in the lineup. If he's not viewed as a player for the playoff run, I think he should be sent down. If the team is sending a clear message that Iafallo, Gustafsson, and Kupari help the team more than him, then him watching it from the press box is worse than anything for his confidence, in my opinion.

 

[KingBogo]

Again, we'll just have to disagree. I think playing is more beneficial than not playing. Players try to come into every season with a clean slate. I don't think he can gain confidence or improve without game experience. I don't think playing on the 4th line improves his confidence.

To be clear, for developing players, I'll always believe that playing is better for their development than not playing.

You can believe that, but these guys work their way up one level at a time. Once you gain a foothold at the next level you hold on for dear life. I played hockey at a pretty competitive level growing up and have been friends with a couple guys that have made it to the show. Every single one one of them would embrace the worst possible usage in the NHL over the best possible usage at a lower league.

 

[LowLefty]

Again, if that's the case, great. I think he should be in the lineup. If he's not viewed as a player for the playoff run, I think he should be sent down.

I'd think they are still looking at him as a potential PO asset - or he would be down.
I also think they are working to get him back to that point and what happens over the next few weeks will depend on how this goes.

 

[Atoyot]

You can believe that, but these guys work their way up one level at a time. Once you gain a foothold at the next level you hold on for dear life. I played hockey at a pretty competitive level growing up and have been friends with a couple guys that have made it to the show. Every single one one of them would embrace the worst possible usage in the NHL over the best possible usage at a lower league.

So did I. Again, all competitive players want to be as close as they can be, that doesn't mean that it's the best for their development. Unsurprisingly, they might be a little biased in that regard.

 

[KingBogo]

So did I. Again, all competitive players want to be as close as they can be, that doesn't mean that it's the best for their development. Unsurprisingly, they might be a little biased in that regard.

Good we have agreement then. If you are 2 1/2 years past a development league you have graduated from, what are your thoughts on being returned to that league after having some success at the higher league?

 

[Atoyot]

I'd think they are still looking at him as a potential PO asset - or he would be down.
I also think they are working to get him back to that point and what happens over the next few weeks will depend on how this goes.

I hope so. Again, my position is that if he is in fact viewed as the 13th or 14th best forward, then send him down. Telling him he's less effective than all the players in the current lineup doesn't help his confidence. Let him work on his skills in game situations. Having players half ass pressure him in practice doesn't help him. He needs game time, he needs to feel good about the skills he has. That's not happening sitting in the press box or playing on the 4th line.

Good we have agreement then. If you are 2 1/2 years past a development league you have graduated from, what are your thoughts on being returned to that league after having some success at the higher league?

What are your thoughts sitting in the press box watching several players that you've out played in pretty much every conceivable way play on the main roster ahead of you?

 

[Flair Hay]

I hope so. Again, my position is that if he is in fact viewed as the 13th or 14th best forward, then send him down. Telling him he's less effective than all the players in the current lineup doesn't help his confidence. Let him work on his skills in game situations. Having players half ass pressure him in practice doesn't help him. He needs game time, he needs to feel good about the skills he has. That's not happening sitting in the press box or playing on the 4th line.

I tend to agree here.

Even Gus is getting consistent playing time over Perfetti now.

Get back to what got you here, and be ready when we need you.

It sucks but he like you said, 4th line mins and healthy scratch as the only options are bad for any young player

 

[KingBogo]

I hope so. Again, my position is that if he is in fact viewed as the 13th or 14th best forward, then send him down. Telling him he's less effective than all the players in the current lineup doesn't help his confidence. Let him work on his skills in game situations. Having players half ass pressure him in practice doesn't help him. He needs game time, he needs to feel good about the skills he has. That's not happening sitting in the press box or playing on the 4th line.


What are your thoughts sitting in the press box watching several players that you've out played in pretty much every conceivable way play on the main roster ahead of you?

I would say he is upset but he realizes that other players do certain things that add value to the team. Personally I don't think players are as petty as we make them out to be. They learn, and adapt. It is an extremely competitive profession and they aren't nearly as fragile as they often get get projected to be.