Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Jet]

I mean sure, if they want to do that the rest of the season I think it is dumb but can somewhat understand that. Also the last two games were against trash teams, not sure how much value I put in those tbh.

If going forward into next season you have players like that blocking a better player cause of 'fit' you are failing.

I honestly don't think that will be an issue. The team values Cole very highly as a foundational piece going forward.

You can see by how they started him in the top 6 this year and kept them there for quite a while after he started to struggle, and then played him on the 4th for quite a while too even though stylistically he doesn't really fit there.

There are a lot of decisions to be made in the offseason regarding this team and I think by natural attrition there will be a spot for Cole.

I don't believe both of Tiny Eyes or Moneyhands will re-sign - it's very possible neither will. As much as I wouldn't mind seeing them return, I'd rather they didn't as it gives the team a chance to put Cole back where he belongs, a year more mature, and also potentially integrate one of our youngsters into the lineup.

It's going to be a very interesting offseason as we have some potential for movement on the back end, too.

Will Dillon and or Demelo re-sign?
Will Miller stick around?
Will Stanley have played his way back into the equation, or is that relationship kind of over?
Will Schmidt get traded or bought out?
Will Heinola be ready and able to re-seize that roster spot he had appeared to have earned in camp?
Will Capobianco get a spot or be moved? I really can't see him being happy to play on the Moose again next year - I think he's been a great soldier and has earned a real NHL opportunity. If the Jets can't give it to him they should move him to allow him to have that.

We could see a very different D corps next year.

 

[surixon]

I honestly don't think that will be an issue. The team values Cole very highly as a foundational piece going forward.

You can see by how they started him in the top 6 this year and kept them there for quite a while after he started to struggle, and then played him on the 4th for quite a while too even though stylistically he doesn't really fit there.

There are a lot of decisions to be made in the offseason regarding this team and I think by natural attrition there will be a spot for Cole.

I don't believe both of Tiny Eyes or Moneyhands will re-sign - it's very possible neither will. As much as I wouldn't mind seeing them return, I'd rather they didn't as it gives the team a chance to put Cole back where he belongs, a year more mature, and also potentially integrate one of our youngsters into the lineup.

It's going to be a very interesting offseason as we have some potential for movement on the back end, too.

Will Dillon and or Demelo re-sign?
Will Miller stick around?
Will Stanley have played his way back into the equation, or is that relationship kind of over?
Will Schmidt get traded or bought out?
Will Heinola be ready and able to re-seize that roster spot he had appeared to have earned in camp?
Will Capobianco get a spot or be moved? I really can't see him being happy to play on the Moose again next year - I think he's been a great soldier and has earned a real NHL opportunity. If the Jets can't give it to him they should move him to allow him to have that.

We could see a very different D corps next year.

Agreed. We won't have the cap to keep these pieces without moving money out. I.e if they keep both then Fly is gone and Cole gets his spot.

He'll be back in the top 6 next year and will likely be extra motivated to ensure Bones or whoever can't drop him down ever again.

As annoyed as I am with what has transpired this will all be a moot point next season.

Edit: For now, Cole is fine on a fourth line with Namestnikov as his center as they will still play a possesion type game. If its Gus or Kupari then he is a poor fit with the bare bones chip and chase game plan.

 

[Jet]

Your definition of "failing" includes being top 5 in the league?

Sometimes this place confuses me. About 10 months ago people were bitching because Chevy built the team to be in the "mushy middle" that would never be good enough to contend, or bad enough to draft an elite player with a top 3 pick

Now, Chevy and Bones have the team sitting at the top of the standings as a true contender and people are complaining about where their favorite players are (or aren't) playing in the line up

You've unlocked it, man.

Some people put player over team.

I have favorite players on the Jets for sure but I love the TEAM first and foremost. I never follow a player after they leave, and all I want is for the management to make the best decision for the team over any player.

Now, of course, some think that the team is making player decisions that hurt the team - and if they have a valid argument (I think back to a time where Stanley was pretty terrible and Heinola was languishing in the AHL), but if you can't make a cogent argument besides "I think this player is better and should be playing" without considering the complexities of team makeup, you've lost the plot.

 

[Jack7222]

It's still early to rate the new guys but if you're only making room for three of Toffoli / Ehlers / Monahan / Perfetti, Mona is the odd man out for me... I have a feeling Perfetti is going to be pretty good and we'll value the contract

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Your definition of "failing" includes being top 5 in the league?

Sometimes this place confuses me. About 10 months ago people were bitching because Chevy built the team to be in the "mushy middle" that would never be good enough to contend, or bad enough to draft an elite player with a top 3 pick

Now, Chevy and Bones have the team sitting at the top of the standings as a true contender and people are complaining about where their favorite players are (or aren't) playing in the line up

lol Cole isn't one of my favourite players. I only really have one on the Jets, it's the other one that is drastically underused.

They are failing if they blow their top 10 pick who showed tons of promise with 30 points in 50 games as a rookie and got off to a good start this year, for 3 guys who are dime a dozen replaceable players like Barron/Iafallo/Appleton.

Now I am not saying that is for sure going to happen, but the poster I was originally replying to said he was going to be blocked by those guys. If he is blocked by those guys, it is a failure by management and coaching.

 

[surixon]

lol Cole isn't one of my favourite players. I only really have one on the Jets, it's the other one that is drastically underused.

They are failing if they blow their top 10 pick who showed tons of promise with 30 points in 50 games as a rookie and got off to a good start this year, for 3 guys who are dime a dozen replaceable players like Barron/Iafallo/Appleton.

Now I am not saying that is for sure going to happen, but the poster I was originally replying to said he was going to be blocked by those guys. If he is blocked by those guys, it is a failure by management and coaching.

It also could be they are trying to load manage Cole for the rest of this year to get him through his first full season in 3 years.

I am not particularly happy with how Bones has handled him but there could be some other things playing into this.

Anyhow I don't actually think Bones will be back next year and Arniel has shown he's more trusting of Cole when he's managed the bench.

I think we forget just how lost Scheifele looked in the playoffs at the same age and juat how much more dominant he looked seasons later.

Every good player has to overcome some adversity. Remember when we had to sit Helle in his first year as a starter for two weeks and callup Pavs because hus game was a mess. We also brought in a starter the following offseason and Helle just took the job and never let go. Cole has the drive and work ethic to do the same.

The issue with the second line is about roles. Monohan plays Cole's role, Toffoli plays the triggerman. The line needs a puck retriever to compliment the other two. That isn't Coles game.

The better fit would be with Mark and KC atm.

 

[DRW204]

It's still early to rate the new guys but if you're only making room for three of Toffoli / Ehlers / Monahan / Perfetti, Mona is the odd man out for me... I have a feeling Perfetti is going to be pretty good and we'll value the contract

Agreed. I think you can throw in Namestnikov or some other similar level player between those two and be fine. The second line produced better with Namestnikov this year anyway.

At the end of the day it all depends on contracts, where the Jets view their wing prospects and timing on how close they are to being top 6 contributors. If they think Perfetti improves or Rutger, Lambert for example will be top 6 capable next season they may just pass on Toffoli.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

It also could be they are trying to load manage Cole for the rest of this year to get him through his first full season in 3 years.

I am not particularly happy with how Bones has handled him but there could be some other things playing into this.

Anyhow I don't actually think Bones will be back next year and Arniel has shown he's more trusting of Cole when he's managed the bench.

I think we forget just how lost Scheifele looked in the playoffs at the same age and juat how much more dominant he looked seasons later.

Every good player has to overcome some adversity. Remember when we had to sit Helle in his first year as a starter for two weeks and callup Pavs because hus game was a mess. We also brought in a starter the following offseason and Helle just took the job and never let go. Cole has the drive and work ethic to do the same.

The issue with the second line is about roles. Monohan plays Cole's role, Toffoli plays the triggerman. The line needs a puck retriever to compliment the other two. That isn't Coles game.

The better fit would be with Mark and KC atm.

Yeah agree with this. I am not panicking over this season. Once again I was only responding because the poster said those 3 guys were blocking him for next season and comparing it to Heinola.

Don't think the situations are similar really at all, but if he is still being blocked by those guys next year it will be a problem.

 

[surixon]

Yeah agree with this. I am not panicking over this season. Once again I was only responding because the poster said those 3 guys were blocking him for next season and comparing it to Heinola.

Don't think the situations are similar really at all, but if he is still being blocked by those guys next year it will be a problem.

Sure, but I expect his play will make that an impossibility.

 

[WolfHouse]

Agreed. We won't have the cap to keep these pieces without moving money out. I.e if they keep both then Fly is gone and Cole gets his spot.

He'll be back in the top 6 next year and will likely be extra motivated to ensure Bones or whoever can't drop him down ever again.

As annoyed as I am with what has transpired this will all be a moot point next season.

Edit: For now, Cole is fine on a fourth line with Namestnikov as his center as they will still play a possesion type game. If its Gus or Kupari then he is a poor fit with the bare bones chip and chase game plan.

Our 4th line is designed for a high energy forecheck... Perfetti is just not that style of player - sitting Barron, Gus or Names for Perfetti makes zero sense for this team

If anything he makes sense to replace Iafallo on the top line - I would try that in the Capitals game on our bizarre upcoming back-to-back

 

[surixon]

Our 4th line is designed for a high energy forecheck... Perfetti is just not that style of player - sitting Barron, Gus or Names for Perfetti makes zero sense for this team

If anything he makes sense to replace Iafallo on the top line - I would try that in the Capitals game on our bizarre upcoming back-to-back

The fourth line can play an even more dominant possesion game with Cole and Name on it. Its a poor use of roster talent to reduce it to chip and chase and energy.

Also why is it designed that way, because of Barron? He is one player and Namestinkov doesn't play a high energy forecheck game he plays a puck possesion game. We are handcuffing players to fit some narrow game plan.

 

[Jack7222]

Agreed. I think you can throw in Namestnikov or some other similar level player between those two and be fine. The second line produced better with Namestnikov this year anyway.

At the end of the day it all depends on contracts, where the Jets view their wing prospects and timing on how close they are to being top 6 contributors. If they think Perfetti improves or Rutger, Lambert for example will be top 6 capable next season they may just pass on Toffoli.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ehlers / Names / Toffoli was better than the Mona version..

 

[Flair Hay]

Then

Except it shouldn't be at all.

As much as I'd like to give Ville a chance he has proven nothing in the NHL.

Cole has already proven he is a good NHL player. Appleton/Barron/Iafallo are not better players than him, and Cole is 22 with high pedigree. If your coach is stopping him from getting chances he is a problem.

I guess you can argue we have a problem in that case. Each of the guys you mentioned our coach is showing he prefers.

 

[WolfHouse]

The fourth line can play an even more dominant possesion game with Cole and Name on it. Its a poor use of roster talent to reduce it to chip and chase and energy.

No it's not. Barron, Gus, AJF - guys like that are some of the fastest players on the team; the fourth lines job is to chip and chase, cycle deep and keep the opposition on its heels... then a scoring line comes over the boards to capitalize on that - its worked well

We do not need a 4th line 'possession line' and honestly Perfetti does not drive play at the level where we could call him a possession player. He's not a 2C and he's not ready for the NHL yet... like give the guy a break. We have better bottom six players than him available - if someone gets injured get him back in the top six and let him seize the moment.

Wow it's crazy to see guys after Monahan... he wins face-offs and he plays the centre position - umm exactly like a 2C is supposed to... he's always in a great spot - even if its just to distract opposing D from the shooter...

Picking at players is a great sign that the season is going well.... at this point last year, it was a full on war of 'who was more of a fan' haha

 

[Flair Hay]

Based on Coles production in the past couple of months, he isn't a better fit than Iafallo, Barron, or Appleton.

Sure, he's a better player - but if he isn't doing the thing that makes him a better player, then he doesn't help the team.

Those above players do things other than scoring that make them more useful to the Jets in this moment than Perfetti unfortunately.

It all comes down to 2 things:

The Jets should not trade performance for development considering their goals for this season
Players contribute more than points production, and you need a variety of roles to be a winning team.

People who are putting Cole alive the team needs are going to have a rough couple months ahead, especially if that 4th line keeps playing like they did in the last two. That played a pretty textbook style for a 4th line.

Yeah I think we see eye to eye on this issue Jet. It's not ideal, but it is what it is.

The coaches decide the lineup, and Bowness (and most other coaches) prefer seasoned grinders over young skill guys in the bottom six.

You made a good point about him and Ville not being a great comparison.

My main point is Toffolli is here to replace Cole in the lineup. So if he stays beyond this year....

Anyway these are June problems now I guess

 

[surixon]

Then
I guess you can argue we have a problem in that case. Each of the guys you mentioned our coach is showing he prefers.

Bones like many coaches is role oriented in his decision making process. Appelton fills a defensive grinding role which fits the third line paradigm. He's not competing with Cole. Neither is Barron.

The Jets brought in vets, some better Toffoli and some worse imo Monohan. To play the skilled scoring role to close out the year. Those are who took Cole's role. The only one out of place is Iafallo and Bones is making the classic coaching choice to defer to the vet.

Anyhow it's not a question of ability but roles and imo it's one of the old school approaches I don't like. Why must the fourth line be a low skilled energy unit when you can create a possesion line capable of causing other teams issues? It's what multiple cup winning teams like the Pens, and Lightning did for instance.

We shall see in short order if Bones was correct to configure as he has.

 

[surixon]

No it's not. Barron, Gus, AJF - guys like that are some of the fastest players on the team; the fourth lines job is to chip and chase, cycle deep and keep the opposition on its heels... then a scoring line comes over the boards to capitalize on that - its worked well

We do not need a 4th line 'possession line' and honestly Perfetti does not drive play at the level where we could call him a possession player. He's not a 2C and he's not ready for the NHL yet... like give the guy a break. We have better bottom six players than him available - if someone gets injured get him back in the top six and let him seize the moment.

Wow it's crazy to see guys after Monahan... he wins face-offs and he plays the centre position - umm exactly like a 2C is supposed to... he's always in a great spot - even if its just to distract opposing D from the shooter...

Picking at players is a great sign that the season is going well.... at this point last year, it was a full on war of 'who was more of a fan' haha

Would not possesion better keep opposition on its heels? Such an outdated concept that crash and banging is the only way to accomplish a goal.

The Pens and lighting proved with 4 cup wins that the more skill top to bottom the better chances of winning.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

No it's not. Barron, Gus, AJF - guys like that are some of the fastest players on the team; the fourth lines job is to chip and chase, cycle deep and keep the opposition on its heels... then a scoring line comes over the boards to capitalize on that - its worked well

We do not need a 4th line 'possession line' and honestly Perfetti does not drive play at the level where we could call him a possession player. He's not a 2C and he's not ready for the NHL yet... like give the guy a break. We have better bottom six players than him available - if someone gets injured get him back in the top six and let him seize the moment.

Wow it's crazy to see guys after Monahan... he wins face-offs and he plays the centre position - umm exactly like a 2C is supposed to... he's always in a great spot - even if its just to distract opposing D from the shooter...

Picking at players is a great sign that the season is going well.... at this point last year, it was a full on war of 'who was more of a fan' haha

Saying someone who averages over .5 PPG as an under 22 year old, averaging ~14 minutes a night 'not ready for the NHL' is completely asinine. There is no evidence that he is not ready for the NHL other than our coach preferring role player grinders.

Perfetti-Namestnikov-Barron would make a fantastic 4th line.

 

[surixon]

Saying someone who averages over .5 PPG as an under 22 year old, averaging ~14 minutes a night 'not ready for the NHL' is completely asinine. There is no evidence that he is not ready for the NHL other than our coach preferring role player grinders.

Perfetti-Namestnikov-Barron would make a fantastic 4th line.

He also has some of the best metrics on the team and is actually good defensively. Sometimes I think coaches get too wrapped up in the how then what the actual results say.

 

[WolfHouse]

Bones like many coaches is role oriented in his decision making process. Appelton fills a defensive grinding role which fits the third line paradigm. He's not competing with Cole. Neither is Barron.

The Jets brought in vets, some better Toffoli and some worse imo Monohan. To play the skilled scoring role to close out the year. Those are who took Cole's role. The only one out of place is Iafallo and Bones is making the classic coaching choice to defer to the vet.

Anyhow it's not a question of ability but roles and imo it's one of the old school approaches I don't like. Why must the fourth line be a low skilled energy unit when you can create a possesion line capable of causing other teams issues? It's what multiple cup winning teams like the Pens, and Lightning did for instance.

We shall see in short order if Bones was correct to configure as he has.

To say Monahan is worse than Perfetti is about the craziest thing Ive seen in a while... and that's saying a lot. Holy get a grip man.

56% face-off percentage and on pace for the equivalent of a 55+ point season since he got here... but hey the Cole Perfetti fan club trumps all logic right. He was just about to turn around his 37% face-off performance and seize the 2C role despite mean ol Bones.

Then claiming that Pat Maroon and Riley Nash were somehow on a 'possession line' for the Lightning... how much baileys is in your coffee today?!!

 

[surixon]

To say Monahan is worse than Perfetti is about the craziest thing Ive seen in a while... and that's saying a lot. Holy get a grip man.

56% face-off percentage and on pace for the equivalent of a 55+ point season since he got here... but hey the Cole Perfetti fan club trumps all logic right. He was just about to turn around his 37% face-off performance and seize the 2C role despite mean ol Bones.

Then claiming that Pat Maroon and Riley Nash were somehow on a 'possession line' for the Lightning... how much baileys is in your coffee today?!!

Cole was pacing 60 points through the first 30 games with far inferior usage.

Sorry but 50 point pace given the mountain of 1st unit pp and being heavily deployed in en situations doesn't cut it for me. 7 es points in 19 games is crap. Sorry but when nearly 50% of your points are courtesy of 1st unit pp time and scoring on an en it's not some great feat. He's been mediocre at best but yay faceoffs.

You do realize Patrick Maroon isn't a a pure grinder right? He's a a decently skilled big man that is perfectly capable of playing the Lightning possesion game. Quite type casting players based on nothing but size. Corey Perry ob the 4th line yet another example of crash and bang role player...

 

[gojetsgo]

Cole was pacing 60 points through the first 30 games with far inferior usage.

Sorry but 50 point pace given the mountain of 1st unit pp and being heavily deployed in en situations doesn't cut it for me. 7 es points in 19 games is crap. Sorry but when nearly 50% of your points are courtesy of 1st unit pp time and scoring on an en it's not some great feat. He's been mediocre at best but yay faceoffs.

he paced for 60 points in the first half of the season, what would what 1 point in his past 25 pace for? if this ehlers/monahan/toffoli line continues to click then monahans points will go way up, I get that you love perfetti but he has not produced at a level we need to contend for a cup

 

[surixon]

he paced for 60 points in the first half of the season, what would what 1 point in his past 25 pace for? if this ehlers/monahan/toffoli line continues to click then monahans points will go way up, I get that you love perfetti but he has not produced at a level we need to contend for a cup

That's fine. He hasn't been productive enough and clearly won't be put back in that role this year. I aknowledged that a while ago. That doesn't change the fact I've been very underwhelmed with Monohan and felt Cole at his best with significantly more impactful then what we've seen from the former.

 

[Bigfish]

To say Monahan is worse than Perfetti is about the craziest thing Ive seen in a while... and that's saying a lot. Holy get a grip man.

56% face-off percentage and on pace for the equivalent of a 55+ point season since he got here... but hey the Cole Perfetti fan club trumps all logic right. He was just about to turn around his 37% face-off performance and seize the 2C role despite mean ol Bones.

Then claiming that Pat Maroon and Riley Nash were somehow on a 'possession line' for the Lightning... how much baileys is in your coffee today?!!

Craziest thing you've seen in a while. Some joker just posted that Perfetti isn't ready for the NHL. Now that's cazy.

 

[Jack7222]

To say Monahan is worse than Perfetti is about the craziest thing Ive seen in a while... and that's saying a lot. Holy get a grip man.

56% face-off percentage and on pace for the equivalent of a 55+ point season since he got here... but hey the Cole Perfetti fan club trumps all logic right. He was just about to turn around his 37% face-off performance and seize the 2C role despite mean ol Bones.

Then claiming that Pat Maroon and Riley Nash were somehow on a 'possession line' for the Lightning... how much baileys is in your coffee today?!!

Perfetti and Monahan have similar p/60 5 on 5 (neither is particularly great imo) but Perfetti posts way better defense metrics.

Monahan has made more hay on the powerplay though obviously and seems to have a better goal scoring touch. Hasn't translated 5 on 5 though.