Prospect Info: All-Purpose Prospect Thread v9.0: IceHogs/Fuel/NCAA/Jr./Int'l - Too Many Cooks in Net

[AmericanDream]

Hillman shouldn't be a UFA, he was just drafted two years ago. Am I missing something? Not that I'm concerned about it either way but that doesn't sound right.

thats what I was going to say...never heard Hillman being a UFA this year, he only played 2 NCAA seasons as we drafted him after his freshmen year, that would mean we had 2 years to sign him??

 

[Blue Liner]

thats what I was going to say...never heard Hillman being a UFA this year, he only played 2 NCAA seasons as we drafted him after his freshmen year, that would mean we had 2 years to sign him??

Yeah, his rights should be held until 2020. He was drafted in 2016.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

thats what I was going to say...never heard Hillman being a UFA this year, he only played 2 NCAA seasons as we drafted him after his freshmen year, that would mean we had 2 years to sign him??

I might be wrong but I think it's based on his graduating class if you're drafted as an "overager" / and 1st year eligible was 2014 Draft ( DOB 1/26/1996). This is 4th yr after he was eligible for draft. NHL teams hold players rights for 4 yrs if not in CHL
Nolan Stevens, N'eastern, is in the same situation
Anyone know the correct answer ?

 

[Blue Liner]

I'm looking into this.

 

[AmericanDream]

I might be wrong but I think it's based on his graduating class if you're drafted as an "overager" / and 1st year eligible was 2014 Draft ( DOB 1/26/1996). This is 4th yr after he was eligible for draft. NHL teams hold players rights for 4 yrs if not in CHL
Nolan Stevens, N'eastern, is in the same situation
Anyone know the correct answer ?

that just doesn't sound right, you are punishing a team for drafting a passed up player then.

Stevens has played 4 seasons of NCAA hockey like Sikura, Hillman has only played 3, I have to believe that regardless of when drafted you have time to sign them UNTIL they complete 4 years of college play. I always thought that was the rule, and why teams do draft passed up players as they still have time to sign them until they leave after 4 years

 

[Blue Liner]

that just doesn't sound right, you are punishing a team for drafting a passed up player then.

Stevens has played 4 seasons of NCAA hockey like Sikura, Hillman has only played 3, I have to believe that regardless of when drafted you have time to sign them UNTIL they complete 4 years of college play. I always thought that was the rule, and why teams do draft passed up players as they still have time to sign them until they leave after 4 years

That's how I understand it as well.

I also thought if a player you draft ends up going NCAA you have until after they've completed their senior season to sign them. In Olofsson's case, he was drafted in 2014 and then spent another season in the USHL after that and then began school. He still has one year of school left after this so I thought they held his rights until then even though it pushes past the four-year mark since drafting him.

 

[AmericanDream]

That's how I understand it as well.

I also thought if a player you draft ends up going NCAA you have until after they've completed their senior season to sign them. In Olofsson's case, he was drafted in 2014 and then spent another season in the USHL after that and then began school. He still has one year of school left after this so I thought they held his rights until then even though it pushes past the four-year mark since drafting him.

exactly. that would be such a tight window to sign a kid. we have seen the big jumps some players make from junior to senior year, hard to have to make a call on a kid after his junior year if he wasn't getting the minutes he would be in his senior season to make the judgement.

I could be wrong on this, but like you I think you have 4 years of NCAA hockey to sign a player regardless of when drafted.

 

[Blue Liner]

exactly. that would be such a tight window to sign a kid. we have seen the big jumps some players make from junior to senior year, hard to have to make a call on a kid after his junior year if he wasn't getting the minutes he would be in his senior season to make the judgement.

I could be wrong on this, but like you I think you have 4 years of NCAA hockey to sign a player regardless of when drafted.

I looked it up in the CBA and we were correct. The only exception is if the player leaves school early before their fourth year, you have until the 4th June 1st after the year they were drafted to sign them. This obviously never really happens because when players leave school early it's to sign with their NHL-drafted club.

But yes, any NCAA player's rights are held until 8/15 after their Senior season. Which is what I thought all along and then all this got me thinking twice about that.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

I looked it up in the CBA and we were correct. The only exception is if the player leaves school early before their fourth year, you have until the 4th June 1st after the year they were drafted to sign them. This obviously never really happens because when players leave school early it's to sign with their NHL-drafted club.

But yes, any NCAA player's rights are held until 8/15 after their Senior season. Which is what I thought all along and then all this got me thinking twice about that.

Cal Petersen left Notre Dame after his Jr year last year. He's a late birth date 10/19/ 1994. He was drafted in 2013 5th rnd #129 by Sabres, didn't sign with Sabres, signed with Kings.
He didn't have to wait until Aug 15th, there was something about notifying the team 30 days before he's not a full time student any longer??

AD, a team can draft a 20 yr old ( 3rd year eligible for draft ) and hold his rights for 4 yrs until he's 24 ??? .......Doesn't sound correct

 

[AmericanDream]

Cal Petersen left Notre Dame after his Jr year last year. He's a late birth date 10/19/ 1994. He was drafted in 2013 5th rnd #129 by Sabres, didn't sign with Sabres, signed with Kings.
He didn't have to wait until Aug 15th, there was something about notifying the team 30 days before he's not a full time student any longer??

AD, a team can draft a 20 yr old ( 3rd year eligible for draft ) and hold his rights for 4 yrs until he's 24 ??? .......Doesn't sound correct

that is not what I am saying, if they draft him as a 3rd year undrafted they have until after his 4 years are up to sign - that is the least ideal situation as there just isn't a lot of time to draft a player which is why those are so few and far with getting drafted...better off trying to sign the player

 

[Mickey the mouse]

that is not what I am saying, if they draft him as a 3rd year undrafted they have until after his 4 years are up to sign - that is the least ideal situation as there just isn't a lot of time to draft a player which is why those are so few and far with getting drafted...better off trying to sign the player

What if he's still playing in USHL or tier 2 in Canada as an over ager and hasn't started NCAA yet ?

I can't recall, but wasn't Shaw drafted in his 3rd and last yr eligible to be drafted ?
How long did Hawks own his rights ?
I know 1st yr drafted CHL kids rights are owned for 3 yrs but what about over agers ?

 

[Blue Liner]

What if he's still playing in USHL or tier 2 in Canada as an over ager and hasn't started NCAA yet ?

I can't recall, but wasn't Shaw drafted in his 3rd and last yr eligible to be drafted ?
How long did Hawks own his rights ?
I know 1st yr drafted CHL kids rights are owned for 3 yrs but what about over agers ?

I have some reading to do this afternoon. All of this is going to bug me until I have answers haha.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

I have some reading to do this afternoon. All of this is going to bug me until I have answers haha.

Hahaha.

Appreciate the effort !

 

[Blue Liner]

Hahaha.

Appreciate the effort !

Appreciate you pointing this stuff out in the first place because I am learning things today. Reading through the CBA now and long story short, you are correct for the most part on things minus some dates. The whole when you're drafting thing versus how many years of college/when you started college stuff gets complicated and you essentially only have an NCAA-bound players' rights for four years from the time you draft them. If they are 20 years old and currently in college when you drafted them (like Hillman) you only have their rights for two years. So, you were right, he is an UFA after this college season if he is not signed.

Petersen's case was he was left school early but was at his four-year mark from his draft so he doesn't have to wait until 8/15, it's 6/1 or 30 days after the NHL Central Registry receives notice that he is leaving school....whichever date is the later of the two. He obviously filed that notice to leave school in late May cuz he was signed around the end of that June.

 

[AmericanDream]

if true that still just doesn't make a lot of sense as to why a team would even want to draft a player like that with such a small window to sign. Maybe most players that are passed up still sign with the team that drafts them as I don't recall hearing about this ever before UNLESS they were 4 year NCAA players.

if we have a chance at losing some of these kids this year then I am going to be one pissed off poster.

 

[Blue Liner]

if true that still just doesn't make a lot of sense as to why a team would even want to draft a player like that with such a small window to sign. Maybe most players that are passed up still sign with the team that drafts them as I don't recall hearing about this ever before UNLESS they were 4 year NCAA players.

if we have a chance at losing some of these kids this year then I am going to be one pissed off poster.

It's really the same window you have to sign a CHL player you draft at 18.

CBA is linked here. College draft stuff begins around page 17.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

 

[AmericanDream]

It's really the same window you have to sign a CHL player you draft at 18.

CBA is linked here. College draft stuff begins around page 17.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

I guess the difference for me is how many kids enter the CHL at 16/17 and they have more time against top competition prior to their draft unlike the NCAA...and yes we obviously know the the USHL exists but a lot of kids do not head that route and go straight from prep to college...

well after all this, I guess I am more confused now than before, but hopefully Bowman has no fear in losing these kids and we sign them all.

 

[Blue Liner]

I guess the difference for me is how many kids enter the CHL at 16/17 and they have more time against top competition prior to their draft unlike the NCAA...and yes we obviously know the the USHL exists but a lot of kids do not head that route and go straight from prep to college...

well after all this, I guess I am more confused now than before, but hopefully Bowman has no fear in losing these kids and we sign them all.

It's actually really simple. If you're non-CHL player under 20 when you're drafted, your team has your rights for four years from the day you're drafted. I think where the confusion came from is most players this has been an issue with were players who started college hockey right after their draft, so their four years coincides with their Senior year of college. Example like Petersen is different because he started college a season after being drafted, not right away. Changes things and skews it a bit and is much less common.

As for the bolded, if you draft a 20 year old college kid he has been playing against elite competition at the college level for two years even if he didn't play Junior prior to that. And now he still has another two years of that competition before you have to sign him. And ideally, if you're drafting someone at 20 years old you are probably more confident you are going to be sign them than not because it should be a bit easier to project, in theory. They are older, further developed, you shouldn't need four years to decide that. That's how I look at that, anyway. You also don't see that happen all that often, anyhow.

 

[AmericanDream]

It's actually really simple. If you're non-CHL player under 20 when you're drafted, your team has your rights for four years from the day you're drafted. I think where the confusion came from is most players this has been an issue with were players who started college hockey right after their draft, so their four years coincides with their Senior year of college. Example like Petersen is different because he started college a season after being drafted, not right away. Changes things and skews it a bit and is much less common.

As for the bolded, if you draft a 20 year old college kid he has been playing against elite competition at the college level for two years even if he didn't play Junior prior to that. And now he still has another two years of that competition before you have to sign him. And ideally, if you're drafting someone at 20 years old you are probably more confident you are going to be sign them than not because it should be a bit easier to project, in theory. They are older, further developed, you shouldn't need four years to decide that. That's how I look at that, anyway. You also don't see that happen all that often, anyhow.

are you confident they will sign with us??

 

[Blue Liner]

are you confident they will sign with us??

I don't know much about Hillman's situation but have seen or heard nothing to suggest he won't and all signs point to Olofsson signing whenever Omaha's season is over.

 

[TLEH]

Blake Hillman hasn’t shown that much anyway.

 

[Blue Liner]

Blake Hillman hasn’t shown that much anyway.

He's a solid college player but probably bottom pairing/7th NHL d-man. I'd like to see him signed but if for some reason it didn't happen, so be it.

 

[TLEH]

He's a solid college player but probably bottom pairing/7th NHL d-man. I'd like to see him signed but if for some reason it didn't happen, so be it.

Yeah if he was a RD it would be different but we are flush on the left

 

[LDF]

Yeah if he was a RD it would be different but we are flush on the left

with the over-flow of the prospects, let them sort them out with ref to their upside, then trade off the others for what ever draft picks you can.

 

[hawksfan50]

Also ...regarding Sikura......if he proves he can star right out of the gate next season (having burned year 1 of the 2yrELC by playing with us a game or a few games before we go golfing after this season finishes ) ..star like Gudreau did. .Then Hawks will gladly give him a big $$$ contract after just next season...but if he faiks to star ...if he is just another Pirri or a 4th liner like Hayden after his shot at starring in the top six,then Hawks can okay hardball till he proves he does merit tge big cap hit..So do not worry about our cap and him...Tge key for him is only the Hawks can burn that 1st yr of ELC ..no other club can..And any club he goes to that is a contender mow probably is going to be in not too good cap space to give him big bucks after 2 seasons anyway..Hawks do have lots of mamouverabimity to fit hom.in with a big bucks deal if he stars..trade AA after next season even if we have not already done it this simmer...Trade Saad of Saad goes cokd again next season but Sikura shows stardom..

Trade Crawford...who woukd have only 1 yr to free agency anyway and learning about over 30s guys with injury histories...no way will we go with another Seabrook-like mistake deal on Crawford..so the best opportunity for Sikura IS with the Hawks ...but itbis entirely upto him to prove he is an NHL
star and can earn big bucks as quick as 2019/20 season!!!

The only caveat MIGHT be if he wants to play with Gaudette since tgey have proven clicking chemistry and if he sees Vancouver as getting to a Cup faster than the Hawks will ...But he would have to sacrifice an extra season at low pay (2 yr ELC fullyplayed)....but he would possibly earn bigger bonuses because with Gaudette he feels as a duo they would impact better than each individually and produce higher which means both get all the bo bus targets...Unless Hawks make it much easier to hit lower targets as part of enticing him to sign with us ...He would have to as Toews or Schmaltz as his 1C or 2 C and how much could they help him put up points.?With Schmaltz at 2C he would also be o Kane's line ..so how would that all click ...or ate there too many dishes o such a line? IF he is on line #2 with Toews and presumably Saad...how would that click ...Given Toews is mire Cou try Club that real impact player these days?So nay he woukd rather avoid all these issues and just play with pal Gaudette by signing as a free agent after Au g 25th with Van ?Course tgat me and Gaudette sticks himself with a 3 yr E (LC of which Van cam burn off 1 yr by pjaying him a few games this end of their season .. So Gaudette probably leaves Northeastern this summer after his Jr. Yr. to sign with Van...

Thus it cones down to this .either Sikura risks that Tiews or Schmaltz are goid enough to help him get big points for big bucks..or he trusts Gaudette to finish off his set-ups just lihevib college ..Certainly neither Toews nor Schmaltz ate lofty finishers given this season ..but maybe he and Gaudette can translate their p roduction chemistry to the pros?

SO the burn 1 year early vs . the "fit" with a finisher issue ...Sikura must decide which is best for him.

Does Sikura Schmaltz Kane make mire sense that Boeser Gaudette Sikura . with Sikura as the
playmaking catalyst for 2 FINISHERS
apoear tge better situation than 3 dishes on a Shnalt -Kane line and perhaps too much over-passibg ....or on a Saad Toews line of poor GoalScoribg/lousy finish g as we saw this srason.

What woukd you do if you were Sikura?I just might tale 2 extra year at lower pay to get a much bigger extention after 2 seagonsvof lighting up tge NHL on a potentially lethal line of scoring.

Bottom line. ..it is not the Hawks cap tgat will keep Sikura way from us ..but rather the perhaps golden opportunity it if he joins Vancouver and if they promised him he would get every chance to play on a line with Boeser and Gaudette and he woukd be at RW where he prefers playing (on the Kane line with us he would be a LW).

SO ...do not count your chickens that the early burn of 1 yr off his ELC trumps anything g else. .it may not...the chance to pkay with Gaudette if he leaves school early this summer to sign with Van who have his draft rights .....welk tgat mat be too much to resist . especially if Can also promises to try Gaudette and Sikura on a line with Boeser.


So sign Sikura is far from a lock for the Hawks ..he coukd wait.butvit makes no reL sense unless it is to join Gaudette I Vancouver,