Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD - New Update - (Post #1123)

[Canucks LB]

This thread is for ALL JT MILLER POSTS/NEW THREADS for the current time period.

PLEASE POST ALL RUMORS, VALUES, TRADES, EVERYTHING JT MILLER in this thread.

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[EP to Kuzmenko]

so teams are upset and can't wait till the 13th... Go overpay Kadri and not give up assets but never get close to the $$ your gonna pay him instead then. Or sign a 35yr old Malkin for 4 years and hope he can stay healthy.

Your offers for JT are low and don't address areas of need. NJ is going to get Gaudreau in FA so enjoy having that smurf who can't do anything in the playoffs


Exactly, some people just don't get it...

According to other fans. Elite players with 1 year left have barely more than a late 1st in value. So an extended elite player must be worth a kings ransom.

 

[JimmyG89]

Ask Dallas how the Benn and Seguin deals are looking now as an example, will they ever be 80-100pt players again, very unlikely both will so they are NOT worth the huge cap hit they have at what age...

You answered your own question as to why teams are reluctant to want Miller for more than a rental. Maybe Canucks fans will eventually see it. The teams that want him are only interested in his services for 1 season.

Without permission to talk to his agent, you don't know what he wants as an extension. If he is looking for 6-8 years, teams are going to tell him to kick rocks. If he wants 9M+ most teams cannot afford that, so because you cannot find out that information without making the trade, it's a mystery box attached to the player. GMs don't like mystery boxes.

The Canucks are trying to tell everyone they have a full house when they have two pair. It could be a full house, we just don't know yet, but we have two pair and want you to pay the full house price. You have to pay that price before you get to the river card. Teams are calling their bluff. Lou called their bluff. Sounds like most GMs are calling their bluff.

Center market is developing. The trade candidates are seeing 2C and 3C options popping up. Kadri is the 1C everyone can get for free. Feels like the Canucks will be left holding the bag on this one and if a move is made in season and the team is a bubble playoff team, fans are going to be angry if he is shipped out for futures instead of making the playoffs.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

so teams are upset and can't wait till the 13th... Go overpay Kadri and not give up assets but never get close to the $$ your gonna pay him instead then. Or sign a 35yr old Malkin for 4 years and hope he can stay healthy.

Your offers for JT are low and don't address areas of need. NJ is going to get Gaudreau in FA so enjoy having that smurf who can't do anything in the playoffs


Exactly, some people just don't get it...

There’s no need to be so loyal to management. If you don’t like how they’re handling things you’re allowed to express your opinions.

But if you’re honestly happy about how they’re handling this then more power to you.

Yes I’d be very happy if the Devils get Gaudreau but I really f do not think we’re in it. I’d be very happy with the Smurf who put up more points than Miller btw.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Best to wait until the 13th to allow that. That way the trade can take an extension into effect and he is no longer traded as a pure rental. Value goes up.

I don’t see the difference. They can talk extension and then wait until the 13th to make the trade. Why wait?

Plus I thought Vancouver fans were dead set on getting a draft pick before the draft. A lot even suggested the 2nd OA should be in play for Miller (with an extension in place).

 

[beachcomber]

There’s no need to be so loyal to management. If you don’t like how they’re handling things you’re allowed to express your opinions.

But if you’re honestly happy about how they’re handling this then more power to you.

Yes I’d be very happy if the Devils get Gaudreau but I really f do not think we’re in it. I’d be very happy with the Smurf who put up more points than Miller btw.

Yup, Gaudreau is a playoff warrior.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I don’t see the difference. They can talk extension and then wait until the 13th to make the trade. Why wait?

Plus I thought Vancouver fans were dead set on getting a draft pick before the draft. A lot even suggested the 2nd OA should be in play for Miller (with an extension in place).

We did want more from this years draft. Management has other ideas, no sense if worrying about the past. Maybe they felt a better return is possible if one can be guaranteed.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Yup, Gaudreau is a playoff warrior.

If he can help us get there then I’d be happy. The Devils won’t be relying on 1 or 2 players to carry the team.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

We did want more from this years draft. Management has other ideas, no sense if worrying about the past. Maybe they felt a better return is possible if one can be guaranteed.

I think the point some are making is maybe it’s time to start worrying about the future with trading Miller. First they couldn’t get a deal at last year’s trade deadline, then they couldn’t get a deal done at the draft.

I’d be a little worried about him not getting traded by the start of the season and risking injury or a drop in production. The next years trade deadline is all they’ll have and there’s no way he’d have more value with months left on his contract as opposed to last years deadline or even the start of next season.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I don’t see the difference. They can talk extension and then wait until the 13th to make the trade. Why wait?

Plus I thought Vancouver fans were dead set on getting a draft pick before the draft. A lot even suggested the 2nd OA should be in play for Miller (with an extension in place).

The 2nd overall was always a fantasy pipe dream. As far as 1st’s, it’s been suggested awhile back that management preferred to get a 2023 1st in return all along. If they get lucky and deal with a team that only lottery protects the pick they could end up getting a pick in the top half of the draft.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

The 2nd overall was always a fantasy pipe dream. As far as 1st’s, it’s been suggested awhile back that management preferred to get a 2023 1st in return all along. If they get lucky and deal with a team that only lottery protects the pick they could end up getting a pick in the top half of the draft.

There were some very heated conversations about the 2nd OA and the value of Miller haha. I don’t think it was a pipe dream for everyone.

They still could have traded for a 2023 1st. Actually it would probably be better to try to get a 1st as far out as possible because if the uncertainty of the future. Say the Devils got bold and traded the 2023 1st and then bombed next year. That’s how Columbus got Chicago’s top 10 pick.

It just seems Vancouver management is mobbing the goalposts every time another deadline passes.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

There were some very heated conversations about the 2nd OA and the value of Miller haha. I don’t think it was a pipe dream for everyone.

They still could have traded for a 2023 1st. Actually it would probably be better to try to get a 1st as far out as possible because if the uncertainty of the future. Say the Devils got bold and traded the 2023 1st and then bombed next year. That’s how Columbus got Chicago’s top 10 pick.

It just seems Vancouver management is mobbing the goalposts every time another deadline passes.

In this draft, the value is there. But 1 year of Miller doesn't make NJD a cup contender, so would have been a terrible trade for them. If somehow a contending team had 2oa, I could see something around that for a player that puts them over the top. This years 1OA isn't even seen as a top 5 pick next year.

 

[Peter Griffin]

There were some very heated conversations about the 2nd OA and the value of Miller haha. I don’t think it was a pipe dream for everyone.

They still could have traded for a 2023 1st. Actually it would probably be better to try to get a 1st as far out as possible because if the uncertainty of the future. Say the Devils got bold and traded the 2023 1st and then bombed next year. That’s how Columbus got Chicago’s top 10 pick.

It just seems Vancouver management is mobbing the goalposts every time another deadline passes.

Why can’t they still trade for 2023 1st? People have this notion that they’ve failed because they didn’t trade him at the draft. I believe then when they said the draft was not a deadline for them.

The upcoming UFA period could dramatically affect Miller’s value one way or the other. I’m guessing they have enough info from interested teams to believe they’ll get a better offer from one of those teams. We’ll see.

 

[periferal]

Best to wait until the 13th to allow that. That way the trade can take an extension into effect and he is no longer traded as a pure rental. Value goes up.

Unless...

Teams willing to trade for Miller were making better offers during/prior to the draft and they won't get as advantageous offers going forward.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

In this draft, the value is there. But 1 year of Miller doesn't make NJD a cup contender, so would have been a terrible trade for them. If somehow a contending team had 2oa, I could see something around that for a player that puts them over the top. This years 1OA isn't even seen as a top 5 pick next year.

I agree NJ should not be giving up any kind of major assets for what will be a 30 year old in need of a new contract. I never wanted them to give up anything we need going forward for him.

2nd OA is just too much to give up for a pending UFA regardless of the team who owns the pick or how weak the draft is.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Unless...

Teams willing to trade for Miller were making better offers during/prior to the draft and they won't get as advantageous offers going forward.

There will always be offers. Not like there is a bunch of JT millers sitting in free agency or on the trade block. Any contender with limited cap space next year is going to be all over Miller at 2.6 like Lightning on a Hagel.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I agree NJ should not be giving up any kind of major assets for what will be a 30 year old in need of a new contract. I never wanted them to give up anything we need going forward for him.

2nd OA is just too much to give up for a pending UFA regardless of the team who owns the pick or how weak the draft is.

The thing is, not all 2oa are equal. A lot of scouts don't see a top line/1st pairing sure thing in 2022. That lowers the value of a pick if it is seen as a weak draft. Any GM that needs results now will trade what they need to to get them. They don't care what the team looks like in 2-3 years, because without results this year, someone else will be in charge of the team at that point.

 

[Guttersniped]

It's a shame that hot take artists are the people least likely to learn from past mistakes.

Pepperidge farms remembers when Sakic was the hfboards whipping boy. The worst GM in the league. He had overplayed his hand with Duchene and there was no way it was going to work out. A bunch of artificial media-driven deadlines had passed and there was no way this was going to work out.

Now we have a ton of people telling us that the Canucks overplayed their hand because it didn't happen on draft day. Shall we try something novel like waiting a bit before we declare a winner and a loser? Maybe we can at least wait until the trade, you know, occurs?

There's something to be said for waiting to see where the chips fall after UFA day on the 13th. Forsberg's off the pile, maybe several teams are counting on filling a hole with the same player.

The Canucks allegedly not allowing teams to chat with Miller about extension before the draft could be a bad sign, or it could be that our GM doesn't want teams doing so until an extension can actually be signed.

For the record, I think that Canucks fans will be initially somewhat underwhelmed by the return and a bunch of dumbasses with zero accountability will crow that they were right and this is their crowning achievement.
But I expect a 1st in 23 from a probable contender and a good prospect or young player.

As an example, from Carolina, our fans were talking about Necas, Morrow, and a 1st. Maybe that becomes Necas, a 1st, and a 24 2nd or something (not saying it will be Carolina).

But I think our GM is waiting until he can get a package he is comfortable with and I'm more than happy to wait and see what he does.

Duchene was traded on Nov 5th 2017 and his contract ran until 2018-19. Sakic had time on his side because Duchene requested a trade, there was no other pressing time limit.

Would people love that deal in hindsight so much if

1) Ottawa didn’t immediately suck, refuse to give up the 2018 #4 and end up giving up the 2019 #4?

2) Nashville didn’t step in as a 3rd party to take Turris and throw in Samuel Girard?

So there was some luck there too.

I don’t see people declaring winners or losers as much as people are tired of months of being told Miller is the player their team needs to succeed, tired of being told that they’re wrong to not covet him or worry about his future massive UFA deal, and most of all, tired of being told the trade is coming any day now.

 

[Guttersniped]

So now we know without any doubt that Allvin & JR dropped the ball at the draft. Hearing what Lou said about the situation vs what Allvin & JR said tells us what we need to know. Combined with Friedman confirming that the Canucks haven’t let anyone talk extension with Miller yet, and it’s obvious that they screwed up.

There isn’t any justification for not letting teams talk to him. Allvin is asking for the long term price for Miller while only offering Miller as a rental. I don’t get it at all but what I do know is that if Benning did this, he would be getting DESTROYED by fans right now.

Miller might not be interested in signing a long term deal now?

I don’t see the logic of it, this is a good season to cash in on but maybe he wants to take his time to figure out his future or thinks another strong year will cement a high price.

IDK, I assume if it would help trade returns than the Canucks would do it. I don’t think Columbus let teams talks to Jones’ agent.

 

[Canuck86]

You answered your own question as to why teams are reluctant to want Miller for more than a rental. Maybe Canucks fans will eventually see it. The teams that want him are only interested in his services for 1 season.

Without permission to talk to his agent, you don't know what he wants as an extension. If he is looking for 6-8 years, teams are going to tell him to kick rocks. If he wants 9M+ most teams cannot afford that, so because you cannot find out that information without making the trade, it's a mystery box attached to the player. GMs don't like mystery boxes.

Come on man, you know full well any high end player is going to want MAX TERM and NMC and HIGH cap hit...JT and his agent are going to show the Hertl, Zibanejad, Forsberg extensions and likely throw in Kadri when he signs with his new team.

You have to give to get, a late 1st really doesn't do help for at least a few years if your lucky. So asking for an established young player or recent high pick as the starting point for JT is just NORMAL

thank god i finally found the ignore feature on this site, will keep me wrong getting in trouble with mods.

All the best to everyone, its barely the off season, 0 rush to trade JT to a team so their fans are happy about it on a hockey forum. He may get traded, he may not...only time will tell!

 

[JimmyG89]

You have to give to get, a late 1st really doesn't do help for at least a few years if your lucky. So asking for an established young player or recent high pick as the starting point for JT is just NORMAL

Your comp trades are the Brayden Schenn trade and the Derek Stepan trade in 2017 right before the draft.

Stepan + Raanta for #7 overall and Tony DeAngelo
Schenn for #27 overall and a top 10 protected 2018 1st rounder. (Lehtera was a cap dump)

And even with those, both players had term left on their deals. The Canucks are asking for way too much. Hate to break it to you, but the fanbase is delusional in what they think should be the return.

You can hem and haw your way through discussions about it, but the fact of the matter is that the precedent is not with what the Canucks are asking for under any circumstance. They blew getting the #13 overall pick last week. That was their deal. There was definitely more to it too, but you can't see the forest through the trees.

 

[Coachcorner]

Miller, Jonathan Tanner is easily one of the clearly best players in the world. Does errrthang. Faceoffs from the start, scoring the most, hitting the most, fighting, blocking, killing for the scrilla. Just what the maple leafs example need. But Miller is worth 9.9 million. He is that great. Even 10. Cause he a ten. How can a team go even wrong with a guy like that............... captain material also. What a player. The nucks should never trade him and get THEIR stanley cup with him. Where miller will go, they will win it. Hard.

 

[Hockey Gamer]

Come on man, you know full well any high end player is going to want MAX TERM and NMC and HIGH cap hit...JT and his agent are going to show the Hertl, Zibanejad, Forsberg extensions and likely throw in Kadri when he signs with his new team.

You have to give to get, a late 1st really doesn't do help for at least a few years if your lucky. So asking for an established young player or recent high pick as the starting point for JT is just NORMAL

thank god i finally found the ignore feature on this site, will keep me wrong getting in trouble with mods.

All the best to everyone, its barely the off season, 0 rush to trade JT to a team so their fans are happy about it on a hockey forum. He may get traded, he may not...only time will tell!

that's probably why there's really no substance to the Canucks and the Rangers making any deal at this point and why there really hasn't been since the TDL last year. It's clear both teams are looking for different circumstances and that's honestly fair.

It's very rare for a young player with a high draft pedigree to get traded for a rental player. If Miller had term on his contract, then it becomes a different story but expiring players simply don't return what you're talking about from an NHL team that's looking to be a serious contender. Those teams don't deal off of their roster and they especially don't deal their youngsters that fill those roles.

Some other TDL examples would be:
Gaborik to the Kings
Stone to the Golden Knights
Nash to the Bruins

The only roster players that ever get moved are middling ones that are just a "body" for the other team. They aren't the young players with a strong draft pedigree that teams covet.

This type of trade is very routine amongst GMs. Team A is a seller and has an expiring player. Team B is gearing up to make a serious playoff run. Team B pays mostly and usually deals all futures to Team A, while keeping their roster intact. Team A takes the "short term pain for a long term gain" while team B takes the "short term gain for the long term pain". This is an archetype. It reoccurs.

If this isn't what the Canucks want, that's fair. It means though there's no business with the Rangers. And as it currently stands, everything in the media, or lack thereof, would strongly support this. I don't mean to be smug or anything, I'm just referring to history and past trends. Canucks will still find other teams I'm sure that will be more amenable to what they want because not every team is along in their window as others. It will be easier for some to deal certain players than others.

The only thing I don't get is why there seems to be this fixating on the Rangers. It seems like Canucks fans are trying to jam J.T. Miller down Rangers' fans throats, while also laying down laws and saying that we have to be thrilled over the moon to have J.T. Miller. It just seems so odd. There are other teams out there to focus on bros.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

^ it's because the Rangers have a litany of good young pieces.

 

[canuckfaithful]

think what it comes down to is 1 year. if schneider was off limits at the deadline when miller is around for 2 playoff runs, the offer isnt going to increase for 1. van obviously has multiple suitors and im sure they play for them is creating a bidding war where they hope to squeeze a guy like schneider into the return.

if im drury, im not going there. and i personally dont think he will. jt miller doesnt isnt a missing link that puts us over the top as favorites. theres a point for teams where a gm has to move high end assets they hate to part with going for it all, but thats not where the rangers are today, and thats not what a miller move does for them.

Miller literally plays in all situations. Center, Wing. Power-play specialist, Penalty Killer extraordinaire. Big-time team leader. Top 10 scorer in the NHL this year. This doesn’t put you over the top? What do you want Gretzky reincarnated?

 

[Petey O]

Miller, Jonathan Tanner is easily one of the clearly best players in the world. Does errrthang. Faceoffs from the start, scoring the most, hitting the most, fighting, blocking, killing for the scrilla. Just what the maple leafs example need. But Miller is worth 9.9 million. He is that great. Even 10. Cause he a ten. How can a team go even wrong with a guy like that............... captain material also. What a player. The nucks should never trade him and get THEIR stanley cup with him. Where miller will go, they will win it. Hard.

Does he maek u sweati tho?