Player Discussion Alex Burrows

[Boud]

This was easily the best hf sens debate if the last 4 years.

Oh god I remember that.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

For sure Vanek had a pretty solid year for Detroit but do you think maybe the lackluster return was due to Vaneks rep around the league? Like I said he's a polarizing player especially the later years.

The trade semed well worth the risk but let's just say I'm not shocked it didn't help Florida out st all.

Florida gave up Dylan McIlrath (career AHL PIM's guy) and a 3rd for him last year... this year there's talk Vanek could be resigned because he's having such a good year even though his deal looked like obvious trade bait. I'm not so sure it's his rep that garnered a mediocre return as opposed to other teams thinking they had better options in the system.

There was a report out that when the Canucks offered a contract towards the end of August, they gave Vanek and his agent a deadline that if he did not sign by September 1st they would pull his offer. Vanek waited until the last second and apparently the Canucks were the only team to offer anything other than a PTO. If Burrows was not extended, I can't see any team that would've offered him anything but a PTO last offseason.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Vanek was better before the trade deadline, Burrows was better after. No doubt. Burrows did play well down the stretch from what I remember. 11 points in 20 games is pretty solid, especially from a guy in his mid thirties.

Now, he’s god awful. Can’t seem to keep up and makes 2.5 this year and next.

Burrows as a rental would have been fine. Burrows with a two year extension is not.

For sure I agree with all of that. I feel like if he played the same as he did last year “some” people could stomach the deal more but he’s absolutely putrid this season.

Of course some people thought he sucked last year too so I guess it just depends on your own evaluation.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Florida gave up Dylan McIlrath (career AHL PIM's guy) and a 3rd for him last year... this year there's talk Vanek could be resigned because he's having such a good year even though his deal looked like obvious trade bait. I'm not so sure it's his rep that garnered a mediocre return as opposed to other teams thinking they had better options in the system.

There was a report out that when the Canucks offered a contract towards the end of August, they gave Vanek and his agent a deadline that if he did not sign by September 1st they would pull his offer. Vanek waited until the last second and apparently the Canucks were the only team to offer anything other than a PTO. If Burrows was not extended, I can't see any team that would've offered him anything but a PTO last offseason.

Hey that’s 10th overall pick McIlrath aka an elite prospect.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

After the trade deadline? Burrows was the better player actually. Overall NHL career? Vanek for sure. Vanek is a pretty polarizing player though.

Vanek was better before the deadline. After the deadline. And is better right now.

It doesn’t matter how polarizing he is. He’s - 50 point player. That doesn’t make 50 point player money.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Vanek was better before the deadline. After the deadline. And is better right now.

It doesn’t matter how polarizing he is. He’s - 50 point player. That doesn’t make 50 point player money.

No, he was not better after. That should give you pause when you're wishing we had him instead of Burrows. Before and after, he takes the cake.

Try being honest, he's better now and you win (still have no interest in having him on our team though).

 

[Boud]

No, he was not better after. That should give you pause when you're wishing we had him instead of Burrows. Before and after, he takes the cake.

Try being honest, he's better now and you win (still have no interest in having him on our team though).

I'd rather have Vanek before and after last season (I've argumented this point over and over again actually).

It's funny though, because a lot of people would say that Burrows is a better all around player than Vanek, but Burrows is actually inept offensively which makes him a unidimentional player himself. Not only that, but people seemed to question Vanek's character for some reason, yet nobody was questioning Burrows character. I haven't seen Vanek knee another player in the head, or bite someone else or any other stupid things Burrows does on the ice. He was even fined earlier this se ason for some other thing he pulled. I'd take Vanek in a heartbeat right now that's no question but he has always been a better player than Burrows. Vanek is clearly underappreciated in the NHL, he's still a very serviceable player as he's always been.

 

[Brannstorm]

I would rather hang out with the guy who has never repeatedly kneed someone in the back of the head while they're lying on the ground. I'd rather hang out with the guy who has never bitten someone's finger during a hockey game.

I would rather play on the same team as the guy who is scoring more than 7 times as many points per game as the other guy.

I would rather hang out with a Senator than a Devil, that's just me though.

 

[Micklebot]

Wow, 10 games. I mean, I don't care about he being out of the lineup for 10 games, that's a non-issue to me, but 10 games for that while Marchand's drive-by elbowing to the jaw gets 5? Burrows actions were inexcusable, but Marchands were far more likely to result in injury imo.

 

[jbeck5]

Meh yeah a good quality is actually admitting when your opinion is wrong. I thought Cowen was an amazing pick when he was drafted and I thought the Varada trade would actually help us win hockey games. When you have a lot of opinions there’s going to be a decent amount that end up wrong!

Varada? Huh? That trade was good. Klepis barely made the NHL.

 

[Alex1234]

Wow, 10 games. I mean, I don't care about he being out of the lineup for 10 games, that's a non-issue to me, but 10 games for that while Marchand's drive-by elbowing to the jaw gets 5? Burrows actions were inexcusable, but Marchands were far more likely to result in injury imo.

The Sid effect
Stars can do no wrong

 

[Langdon Alger]

Varada? Huh? That trade was good. Klepis barely made the NHL.

Varada did help us. He was an asshole and we needed that at the time. Didn’t chip in with a ton of offence, but played well with Bonk and Hossa. Did the dirty work on that line.

 

[Boud]

Wow, 10 games. I mean, I don't care about he being out of the lineup for 10 games, that's a non-issue to me, but 10 games for that while Marchand's drive-by elbowing to the jaw gets 5? Burrows actions were inexcusable, but Marchands were far more likely to result in injury imo.

I think part of it is for one that an arm to the head is a common contact in hockey and even sometimes can be disguised as a reflex or can even be unintentional. The problem with kneeing someone in the head... I mean it's self-explanatory right?

You can't actually do that unless you're deliberately trying to injure the other player, it can't be disguised or you can't argue the intention. There's also the fact that a leg weighs about twice or more the weight of an arm so when you hit someone with a leg the potential of the impact is significantly higher.

Hall's head was laying right close to the ice also, in 2018 you wouldn't see a player (generally speaking) hitting another player on the head when his head is close to the ice as that also adds to the impact. Yet here we see Burrows hitting the head with his damn knee when the head is right there close to the ice.

I mean we can argue about Marchand here but that was straight up not a play you see in hockey. It's not the type of thing you can interpret in any other way.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Varada? Huh? That trade was good. Klepis barely made the NHL.

Yeah but Varada was brought in for the whole toughness aspect since our team was known to be "soft." He really didn't address that apparent flaw, but I guess he was better than Rob Ray?

Poor Alfie, taking a paycut midseason so Varada could be brought in.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Varada? Huh? That trade was good. Klepis barely made the NHL.

Wait.....so if Dahlen turns into a Klepis does that mean we win the Burrows trade? Gotcha there!

Or...should we have gotten more for Klepis at the time based on his projection? #16 overall pick.

 

[Agent Zub]

Burrows did suck last year which is why it was easy to predict he would suck this year.

It's the same Burrows it's just now his point totals reflect his play.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Yeah but Varada was brought in for the whole toughness aspect since our team was known to be "soft." He really didn't address that apparent flaw, but I guess he was better than Rob Ray?

Poor Alfie, taking a paycut midseason so Varada could be brought in.

You clearly didn’t watch many games back in 2003. Varada was not a “tough guy.” He was a pest, a physical player, but not a fighter. Kind of like Volchenkov was. No, he didn’t drop his gloves, but I remember him decking Keith Primeau a couple of times in the Philly series. He drove hard to the net, and was good in the trenches. We lacked guys like that big time back then. We were too nice and Varada wasn’t nice to play against. He was hated by a lot of opponents. Just what was needed. Credit to Muckler on that one. He knew what he was getting.

He was an important player during that run in 2003. He helped Bonk a lot. Hossa was usually the other guy on the line, but Havlat got some time there too.

You’re also forgetting we added Smolinski too, so that may have something to do with Alfie deferring money.

 

[Boud]

Varada was a Komarov like player

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

You clearly didn’t watch many games back in 2003. Varada was not a “tough guy.” He was a pest, a physical player, but not a fighter. Kind of like Volchenkov was. No, he didn’t drop his gloves, but I remember him decking Keith Primeau a couple of times in the Philly series. He drove hard to the net, and was good in the trenches. We lacked guys like that big time back then. We were too nice and Varada wasn’t nice to play against. He was hated by a lot of opponents. Just what was needed. Credit to Muckler on that one. He knew what he was getting.

He was an important player during that run in 2003. He helped Bonk a lot. Hossa was usually the other guy on the line, but Havlat got some time there too.

You’re also forgetting we added Smolinski too, so that may have something to do with Alfie deferring money.

Ouch. I was at the playoff games vs. the Devils in 2003 and watched almost every game that season. I know what type of player Varada was (I was never making any direct comparison that Ray and Varada were anything alike)...which is why he was kinda brought up in the Burrows thread by me. He is a pest, not a tough guy, I know that, but he was brought in to provide jam because we were considered soft....and we gave up a #16th overall pick to get him who had high potential at the time.

We also made the ECF and were "1 win away" and Varada provided 2 G 6 A in 11 games and 2G 4A in the playoffs....Are we seeing any parallels here? That trade gets absolutely RIPPED on these boards today and you know it Sir.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

10 games because he went after a star player not because of what he did.

Certainly worthy of suspension but Player Safety should stop treating events that involve star players differently.

Star players get away with far too much and they get insane protection. Not a great way to go about it.

How many games did Cindy Crysbaby get for chopping off Methot's finger?

 

[Langdon Alger]

Ouch. I was at the playoff games vs. the Devils in 2003 and watched almost every game that season. I know what type of player Varada was...which is why he was kinda brought up in the Burrows thread by me. He is a pest, not a tough guy, I know that, but he was brought in to provide jam because we were considered soft....and we gave up a #16th overall pick to get him who had high potential at the time.

We also made the ECF and were "1 win away" and Varada provided 2 G 6 A in 11 games and 2G 4A in the playoffs....Are we seeing any parallels here? That trade gets absolutely RIPPED on these boards today and you know it Sir.

You said Varada didn’t address the toughness issue, then you acknowledge he’s not a tough guy. He was a pain in the ass to play against. You should know that if you went to the games. You act like he didn’t help us that year. He did help us.

I don’t care about your parallels to Burrows. That’s not what I was referring to.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Can we buy this clown out at years end?

Because he's older than 35 years, to buyout Burrows, it would cost " 2/3 of the remaining salary due ", or approximate $1.67 M.

I think they could spread it out over 3 or 4 seasons, but don't think it will happen on a Budget conscience team.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

You said Varada didn’t address the toughness issue, then you acknowledge he’s not a tough guy. He was a pain in the ass to play against. You should know that if you went to the games. You act like he didn’t help us that year. He did help us.

I don’t care about your parallels to Burrows. That’s not what I was referring to.

Maybe our definitions of toughness are different, but Varada was brought in to address toughness yes, I stand by that by that assessment.

"The skill level on our hockey club _ in my opinion _ is very high," Muckler said. "Whether the grit was high enough or not, time will tell, but we just felt that we had to add some grit to our hockey club to make it a little bit stronger in those areas."

"I've always liked him as a hockey player," Muckler said. "I've always liked his grit. He's a tough player to play against. He can be miserable. He's not a fighter, but he's got great mental toughness and he'll do anything to win.
"He's someone who will go to battle, go to war. He can be awfully mean in his own way."

You say he did help us...I say he didn't. We didn't win the cup did we? "1 game away" to give up a top prospect.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Maybe our definitions of toughness are different, but Varada was brought in to address toughness yes, I stand by that by that assessment.

"The skill level on our hockey club _ in my opinion _ is very high," Muckler said. "Whether the grit was high enough or not, time will tell, but we just felt that we had to add some grit to our hockey club to make it a little bit stronger in those areas."

"I've always liked him as a hockey player," Muckler said. "I've always liked his grit. He's a tough player to play against. He can be miserable. He's not a fighter, but he's got great mental toughness and he'll do anything to win.
"He's someone who will go to battle, go to war. He can be awfully mean in his own way."

You say he did help us...I say he didn't. We didn't win the cup did we? "1 game away" to give up a top prospect.

So because we didn’t win the cup he didn’t help us?

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

So because we didn’t win the cup he didn’t help us?

Exactly.

(I hope you see where I am going here )