Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[Zil]

Since everyone wants AV fired who do they want to replace him?

Honestly I'd be happy if he could just fix his shortcomings because I think it will be a bit tough to hire a better coach and not just be shuffling deck chairs

When has AV ever fixed a shortcoming? He does the same things now that he did when he first got here.

 

[Levitate]

I would be on the phone with Sutter yesterday.

I'm kind of ambivalent about Sutter, not sure he's any better than AV, just different. Not sure the Rangers have the roster to play the style he coached in LA and for all of the "LA is just saving it for the playoffs!" and ****, his teams seemed perpetually on the verge of missing the playoffs. I think he gets a lot of credit for a bit of luck he got in the playoffs

When has AV ever fixed a shortcoming? He does the same things now that he did when he first got here.

I think a lot of his shortcomings are things you see in a lot of NHL coaches. If they fired AV and brought someone in who then just played vet favorites just as much, then what's the point? NHL coaches love their vets. Takes a lot to get them over that.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't hate AV. I'm upset with some of the personnel mistakes he made in the playoffs this year, but we did exceed expectations this season and a lot of the credit for that has to go to him.

I want no part of Darryl Sutters boring ass hockey.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I don't think AV gets canned this summer

I was thinking about it today, one of the things that sold Pionk is AV's system

They wouldn't be selling AV's system if he was going to be fired

 

[DanielBrassard]

Not sure why Sutter is so popular. I don't think he'd be a good fit with our roster, and like Tawnos mentioned, boring hockey.

 

[Levitate]

Not sure why Sutter is so popular. I don't think he'd be a good fit with our roster, and like Tawnos mentioned, boring hockey.

Won two cups and they play excellent possession hockey so it's easy to ignore how LA has struggled in other areas

 

[Zil]

People like AV's terrible system? People like 0 puck support, limited forechecking, 0 neutral zone defense, and the miscue prone man-to-man defensive system? People like a powerplay that runs the simplest, most predictable plays possible? People like a penalty kill that constantly sends defenders flailing out of position? I don't get it.

Even putting aside his awful personnel management and failure to ever make adjustments, AV's a bad coach. He owes his record to top flight goaltending and always having win-now rosters.

 

[Tawnos]

People like AV's terrible system? People like 0 puck support, limited forechecking, 0 neutral zone defense, and the miscue prone man-to-man defensive system? People like a powerplay that runs the simplest, most predictable plays possible? People like a penalty kill that constantly sends defenders flailing out of position? I don't get it.

Even putting aside his awful personnel management and failure to ever make adjustments, AV's a bad coach. He owes his record to top flight goaltending and always having win-now rosters.

You're describing AVs system when the team isn't executing. The majority of his time here, the team has executed just fine. That's hockey I really enjoy. It's fast paced and exciting... and successful.

I do wonder somewhat about his motivational ability, so the whole team execution thing does also rest on his shoulders to an extent.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

AV's system works fine. It's the finer adjustments and personnel decisions that are so abysmal that he absolutely needs to be fired over. Teams adjust their in-game schemes. It's called actual coaching and it's done on occasion to take advantage of a unique circumstance. AV should prob try doing that sometime...or at least when it's appropriate.

He might also want to try feeling his players so that when you have one line or pair that's on fire...y'know...don't ****ing bench it. When your horses can't run your system and other coaches scheme to take advantage of that you should probably also try changing up. **** AV

 

[Zamboner]

Since everyone wants AV fired who do they want to replace him?

Don't expect many answers. I've been asking this for six months.

 

[SA16]

That's because it's not a good question.

I've seen AV coach. I don't think he's a very good coach.

I do not know the entire world of assistant coaches, college coaches, and junior coaches and I have no idea who should replace him.

The first does not imply that you need knowledge of the second.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Don't expect many answers. I've been asking this for six months.

And you've gotten answers multiple times. Personally, I've thrown out Phil Housley or Norm Bazin as two I'd like to see hired. There's been people saying to hire Sutter every single day since LA canned him.

 

[True Blue]

Not sure why Sutter is so popular. I don't think he'd be a good fit with our roster, and like Tawnos mentioned, boring hockey.

I could care less about boring. Winning is never boring. And they guy wins. His last 5 years the Kings did not qualify twice. In the other 3 they lost in the Conference Finals and won two Cups. Sign me up for that at any time. If you add on his time in Calgary, there is another year in which the team did not make it, one loss in the second round and another trip to the Finals. The guy has had more success than any Rangers coach.

 

[True Blue]

I'm kind of ambivalent about Sutter, not sure he's any better than AV, just different. Not sure the Rangers have the roster to play the style he coached in LA and for all of the "LA is just saving it for the playoffs!" and ****, his teams seemed perpetually on the verge of missing the playoffs.

His two Cup victories proclaim pretty loud and clear that he is heads and shoulders better than AV. And if the Rangers do not have a roster that suits him, then change the roster. Not like the current roster has been getting it done.

I think he gets a lot of credit for a bit of luck he got in the playoffs

In 8 years, he made the Finals 3 times, winning twice. I would say that is a little more than luck.

I think a lot of his shortcomings are things you see in a lot of NHL coaches. If they fired AV and brought someone in who then just played vet favorites just as much, then what's the point? NHL coaches love their vets. Takes a lot to get them over that.

The point for me is that he wins and his teams play a style that is more geared for playoff success than AV's style.

 

[True Blue]

I don't think AV gets canned this summer

I do not think that anyone thinks that.

 

[True Blue]

AV's system works fine. It's the finer adjustments and personnel decisions that are so abysmal that he absolutely needs to be fired over. Teams adjust their in-game schemes. It's called actual coaching and it's done on occasion to take advantage of a unique circumstance. AV should prob try doing that sometime...or at least when it's appropriate.

Speaking my mind.

He might also want to try feeling his players so that when you have one line or pair that's on fire...y'know...don't ****ing bench it. When your horses can't run your system and other coaches scheme to take advantage of that you should probably also try changing up. **** AV

He did not bench them. He lost them.

 

[Miamipuck]

Speaking my mind.

He did not bench them. He lost them.

I think someone should go all Bricktop on AV.

Turkish: We've lost Gorgeous George.
Brick Top: Shhh. You're going to have to repeat that.
Turkish: We've lost Gorgeous George.
Brick Top: Well, where'd you lose him? He ain't a set of ****ing car keys, is he? And it ain't as if he's incon-****ing-spicuous now, is it?

 

[Bluenote13]

Darryl Sutter would prefer to stay on the west coast pretty sure he said this for like 15 years now.

Plus he's a coach's already won coming to New York this would be a retirement for him he have nothing to prove here so if you won or lost I don't think it would really matter to him.

Give me a coach that's hungry to win. I can't recall one coach coming to a New York team after winning a championship and winning one here.

Some of the other names being thrown around are not so bad and I'd be down for that once av's time was up. Always been a fan of Housley, Bazin is cool too. Like people have said Gorton is going to pick his guy, must have somebody in mind I wonder if that guy's going to get that Hartford job?

 

[Inferno]

I do not think that anyone thinks that.

I might be the single biggest AV hater on this board..and even I dont think he's getting fired.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Don't expect many answers. I've been asking this for six months.

There have been about half a dozen potential coaches mentioned throughout this thread with reasons behind why people think they would be better/progressive for this team. You don't even really have to dig through a ton of posts, you can probably find 3 or 4 names in the last ~5 pages.

AV has consistently made blatantly poor roster/TOI decisions. Just because there is no clear cut successor or just because names of coaches aren't being readily thrown around (which they have been quite a few times) doesn't mean that AV should be sitting pretty because he's regarded as the "best" or only or "safest" option. He's shown that he's really not the best choice here given his mismanagement of his roster for multiple years now. Fear of the unknown shouldn't be the main reason why AV gets to continue coaching here. I don't want to hear about the regular season records. They're more a product of and have been propped up by insanely hot starts - I'd say much more than due to great coaching - then they peter out hard as the season goes on and seem to stumble in to the playoffs.

This team has only gotten worse under AV. SCF loss>ECF loss>1st round loss>2nd round loss we had no business losing. Certainly a portion of this team's wins can be attributed in part to coaching as well, but the same amount of losses can also be attributed to blatantly bad coaching. Having guys like Glass, Staal, and Girardi on the ice to protect late 1-goal leads when they bleed goals against is ridiculous considering the frequency with which those situations were blown. But they kept getting the nod simply because they are veteran players. "Losing" Skjei on the bench is ridiculous considering he was one of the best defenders for this team. How Yandle and Clendening were misused is borderline ridiculous.

 

[Mikos87]

Not sure why Sutter is so popular. I don't think he'd be a good fit with our roster, and like Tawnos mentioned, boring hockey.

He's a winner and will hold people accountable.

But he hasn't coached offense in years. LA struggles offensively because of his zone entries.

But the Corsi kids should love him.

His teams lead the league in Corsi a bunch of times.

Guess good corsi is boring.

 

[Chaels Arms]

He's a winner and will hold people accountable.

But he hasn't coached offense in years. LA struggles offensively because of his zone entries.

But the Corsi kids should love him.

His teams lead the league in Corsi a bunch of times.

Guess good corsi is boring.

This is what intrigues me with Sutter. I haven't looked too deeply into it but I remember the Kings being Corsi models quite often. Plus, I don't think the Kings' rosters were as stacked as many people believe. Yes, they were good teams, but Sutter was able to have success without generational talents like Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kane, etc. Kopitar was the guy but I don't consider him to be at the same level as those others.

 

[Raspewtin]

This is what intrigues me with Sutter. I haven't looked too deeply into it but I remember the Kings being Corsi models quite often. Plus, I don't think the Kings' rosters were as stacked as many people believe. Yes, they were good teams, but Sutter was able to have success without generational talents like Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kane, etc. Kopitar was the guy but I don't consider him to be at the same level as those others.

The Kings are absolutely not stacked but Sutter designed a system that perfectly suits his roster. A bunch of 6'3" neanderthals that don't know the meaning of creativity sprinkled through his forward core + a very shot happy defense makes LA so ****ing hard to play against. Good positioning doesn't matter against them because they force you to run around a lot more than you want to. His puck support and zone exit scheme are marvelous and truth be told LA would be a dynasty if they weren't so, like, not talented.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Sutter kills offense, but I'd love to mimic their defensive zone structure. Kind of a hybrid between them and Nashville: always plugging passing lanes and stifling attempts, while also pushing the pace and moving up the ice in a 5-man unit.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

The Kings are absolutely not stacked but Sutter designed a system that perfectly suits his roster. A bunch of 6'3" neanderthals that don't know the meaning of creativity sprinkled through his forward core + a very shot happy defense makes LA so ****ing hard to play against. Good positioning doesn't matter against them because they force you to run around a lot more than you want to. His puck support and zone exit scheme are marvelous and truth be told LA would be a dynasty if they weren't so, like, not talented.

They could have been had they not lost to Chi in 2013. A lot of their guys experienced drop offs and one of their best defensemen became a felon which is a shame. Their system is/was one of the better ones I saw in the NHL and playoffs. Basically rapid fire and the players doing it were hard as hell to get off the puck. Loved it until it was against us. Up to that point I made it a point to watch Kings games after the Rangers if the times lined up