Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[GoAwayPanarin]

Also is it just me, or is extending a coach's contract mid season not mind numbingly stupid?

Not always... In his case it was.

 

[Irishguy42]

Meh, been less than a week since elimination, it's always this bad when the wounds are still fresh.

Expansion draft and amateur draft will be here soon, the action should be fun around here again soon....

It was this bad during the season too.

 

[Bluenote13]

Would AV resign ?

 

[Bluenote13]

It was this bad during the season too.

I agree it was bad, and unwarranted most of the time, but this is the offseason, comes with the territory. No actual games to speak of.

 

[Irishguy42]

Irish, out of curiosity, what is your argument for keeping him?

Didn't see this earlier. My bad.

I, for one, think his system/style of play is fine. It has it's faults, which are exacerbated by poor blueline personnel and some stubbornness on his part.

But that's probably not going to happen in his tenure here. Think that kind of overhaul is completed after he's already gone.

I don't think he's the best coach in the league, nor do I think he's the worst.

Now, let's commence everyone telling me why I'm wrong and why he's been carried through his career by goaltending and lucky to be an NHL coach.

 

[silverfish]

Didn't see this earlier. My bad.

I, for one, think his system/style of play is fine. It has it's faults, which are exacerbated by poor blueline personnel and some stubbornness on his part.

But that's probably not going to happen in his tenure here. Think that kind of overhaul is completed after he's already gone.

I don't think he's the best coach in the league, nor do I think he's the worst.

Now, let's commence everyone telling me why I'm wrong and why he's been carried through his career by goaltending and lucky to be an NHL coach.

I don't think your analysis is wrong, but it's unfortunate that you downplay a legitimate argument in your last sentence.

AV is an average coach who has been carried by great goaltending his entire career which makes people believe he's a better coach than he is.

Kind of like how before their contracts, Staal and Girardi were average d-men who we paid like top d-men because we were fooled into believing they were great d-men because of the goalie they played in front of.

 

[Crease]

At this point is it safe to say he's the head coach going into training camp?

 

[Fugazy]

At this point is it safe to say he's the head coach going into training camp?

I don't think he will be fired this offseason.

 

[Irishguy42]

I don't think your analysis is wrong, but it's unfortunate that you downplay a legitimate argument in your last sentence.

AV is an average coach who has been carried by great goaltending his entire career which makes people believe he's a better coach than he is.

Kind of like how before their contracts, Staal and Girardi were average d-men who we paid like top d-men because we were fooled into believing they were great d-men because of the goalie they played in front of.

For sure, I agree.

I was more targeting the hyperbole I've seen on here that basically states AV is basically a non-coach who lucked into Luongo and Lundqvist and made a career out of it.

I just want to see him coach a Rangers team that is at, or close to, 100% competent, before giving him the boot. But that's another subject, which he doesn't entirely control. Which is fine.

I do think, on some level, that AV knows what is needed in order to have a good future here. But sometimes, he can be stubborn or reactionary, which leads to pretty dumb moves.

He and Gorton seem to be working on personnel moves together, and with the recent signings, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I do think last offseason was a bit of a revelation for him, and we'll see what happens this offseason.

 

[silverfish]

So I know we all give AV a ton of **** for third period turtles in the playoffs..... but this is an interesting case of the eye-test and the metrics perhaps not aligning.

The Rangers have a 3rd period shot attempt % of 39.6%. Again, let me be clear. This is all situations only when leading in the third period of a playoff game. Not tied. Not trailing. Only leading. That 39.6% is 10th among teams who have led in the third period of a hockey game since the 2014 playoffs. I should also mention that number does not include this year's playoffs, which I'm sure AV is benefiting from greatly.

39.6% is +0.4% relative to the rest of the league.

Will have more on this in the advanced stats thread either tonight or sometime this week.

Interesting, though.

 

[NYRFAN218]

At this point is it safe to say he's the head coach going into training camp?

I see no way he gets fired unless there's some real falling out between him and management or between him and the players which wouldn't really happen at this point.

 

[NYRFAN218]

So I know we all give AV a ton of **** for third period turtles in the playoffs..... but this is an interesting case of the eye-test and the metrics perhaps not aligning.

The Rangers have a 3rd period shot attempt % of 39.6%. Again, let me be clear. This is all situations only when leading in the third period of a playoff game. Not tied. Not trailing. Only leading. That 39.6% is 10th among teams who have led in the third period of a hockey game since the 2014 playoffs. I should also mention that number does not include this year's playoffs, which I'm sure AV is benefiting from greatly.

Will have more on this in the advanced stats thread either tonight or sometime this week.

Interesting, though.

Interesting for sure. For me personally, every team turtles and I know it's going to come. I don't mind reigning it in and buckling down defensively in the final ten minutes. What infuriates me is when the team is up a goal or two and they're playing the entire third like that. You're just asking for it at that point.

And while I'm sure turtling with the lead is one of the complaints about AV this playoff, I take way more exception with the deployment of personnel than that.

 

[JimmyG89]

Hopefully this is something we can work on in terms of strategy. We do this so often. It causes our breakouts to seem disjointed. Addressing the defense could fix this, but our coaches need to emphasize moving it out quickly.

 

[Irishguy42]

So I know we all give AV a ton of **** for third period turtles in the playoffs..... but this is an interesting case of the eye-test and the metrics perhaps not aligning.

The Rangers have a 3rd period shot attempt % of 39.6%. Again, let me be clear. This is all situations only when leading in the third period of a playoff game. Not tied. Not trailing. Only leading. That 39.6% is 10th among teams who have led in the third period of a hockey game since the 2014 playoffs. I should also mention that number does not include this year's playoffs, which I'm sure AV is benefiting from greatly.

39.6% is +0.4% relative to the rest of the league.

Will have more on this in the advanced stats thread either tonight or sometime this week.

Interesting, though.

10th? That's surprising.

Looking forward to seeing more on this.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Hopefully this is something we can work on in terms of strategy. We do this so often. It causes our breakouts to seem disjointed. Addressing the defense could fix this, but our coaches need to emphasize moving it out quickly.

I don't disagree but that video isn't a great example.

Subban's waiting on a line change there.

 

[JimmyG89]

I don't disagree but that video isn't a great example.

Subban's waiting on a line change there.

Right, that's fine. Just wanted to point out that it's not ideal. When we have 5 on the ice, can't do that. Have to move it out.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Just stop sending both dmen below the goal line to pressure the puck. It's peewee level hockey reads and it puts such an onus on the forwards to always pick up lapses. Keep the defense simple and keep the offense the same. Actually trying to defend the neutral zone would be a bonus too.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Really didn't need to give him an extension earlier this season. Could've waited until...oh...af5er the playoffs?

Rangers should've won this series in five. His player usage in the last few minutes of game 2 and 5 were horrific. Likely the Rangers get beaten out by Pittsburgh. I would've rather gone down to a team that is better vs giving it away to a worse opponent.

 

[Mikos87]

Just stop sending both dmen below the goal line to pressure the puck. It's peewee level hockey reads and it puts such an onus on the forwards to always pick up lapses. Keep the defense simple and keep the offense the same. Actually trying to defend the neutral zone would be a bonus too.

He's all about outnumbering. But it doesn't work without the skaters on the backend.

Earlier in the year I said watch Theodore & Montour make ANA and contribute.

They are pushing them in the playoffs.

Those are your modern defensemen. The transporters with the smart shot. They can skate it out, transition with slower forwards.

Rangers need to pressure in the neutral zone, and switch between box+1 with rotations instead of the center chasing, and man on man.

The success trend this year is RH shots up-front.

All 3 of 4 final teams can ice 3 RH forwards on a line.

That mixes up the common cycling patterns and opens up different lanes, and forces goalies to play the RH shot more often. (High glove is easier to score on than high blocker.

All the final four teams have multiple defensemen capable of carrying a counter transition.

Rangers lack the above.

 

[Mikos87]

Really didn't need to give him an extension earlier this season. Could've waited until...oh...af5er the playoffs?

Rangers should've won this series in five. His player usage in the last few minutes of game 2 and 5 were horrific. Likely the Rangers get beaten out by Pittsburgh. I would've rather gone down to a team that is better vs giving it away to a worse opponent.

Been saying that for a while.

This guy gets comfortable quickly.

He talks about looks so often, that he forgets he's icing the same look every time, that's soft, perimeter, and choking when it matters.

 

[Mac n Gs]

He's all about outnumbering. But it doesn't work without the skaters on the backend.

Earlier in the year I said watch Theodore & Montour make ANA and contribute.

They are pushing them in the playoffs.

Those are your modern defensemen. The transporters with the smart shot. They can skate it out, transition with slower forwards.

Rangers need to pressure in the neutral zone, and switch between box+1 with rotations instead of the center chasing, and man on man.

The success trend this year is RH shots up-front.

All 3 of 4 final teams can ice 3 RH forwards on a line.

That mixes up the common cycling patterns and opens up different lanes, and forces goalies to play the RH shot more often. (High glove is easier to score on than high blocker.

All the final four teams have multiple defensemen capable of carrying a counter transition.

Rangers lack the above.

Been hoping for this for 2 years now. It's how you win in today's game.

 

[ponytrekker]

AV or Staal need to go - we can`t have him in his system.

I will take both for $6,336.00 please.

 

[ponytrekker]

Good move sitting that number 76. Not like he's looking good on the USA team or anything.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

AV or Staal need to go - we can`t have him in his system.

Either AV, or his toys need to go (Glass, Staal, G, Holden, etc.).

If his toys go, and AV complains, then he can leave and we won't have to pay him his contract extension amount.

 

[gorangers0525]

Still can't believe this clown got an extension