Former Bruins Adam McQuaid

[BruinDust]

You will now hear about how another small, "puck moving defenseman" is so much more valuable than a guy like McQuaid, how the game has no place for players like McQuaid and McLeod and being tough proves nothing and the Bruins shouldn't have players like that while a non physical player who would never fight or stick up for himself or his teammates is so much smarter and better to have on the team.

Then will come the "bruins fans love physical hockey but not dumb goons" responses, even those making those statements will tell you how they don't need anybody tough and that Noel Accari is all they need for a physical forward while a key component like Austin Czarnik is being wasted or better yet how Alex Khokoklachev was never given a fair shot in the NHL.

Why are we lumping McQuaid and McLeod together?

McQuaid has clearly worked hard on his game to make himself a better and more well-rounded player. Boston might be the only team in the league deep enough at RD to even debate whether he should be in the line-up or not.

McLeod just got place on waivers by a top team. Sure the Rangers picked him up, they are also about to have a fire sale and need warm bodies.

 

[kdog82]

Kevan Miller is the better option.

I'd keep McQuaid as the #7 dman in the playoffs. He is a solid depth guy for sure, but Miller is better.

 

[Otherworld]

It's a ridiculous claim because neither saw the ice after that. It's one thing to put a stop to something in the first or second period. It's another to supposedly put a stop to something at the end of the guy's last shift of the game. You must be joking if (1) you really think McLeod didn't start running players until the end of the game and (2) you think McLeod's never going to take a run at another Bruin in any future meetings because of anything that happened the other day.

What's ridiculous is the notion that you seem to believe that what McQuaid did does not change the dynamic of future meetings between the two teams and two players.

Like I said just ask Lucic and Komisarek if that notion rings true.

 

[Otherworld]

You will now hear about how another small, "puck moving defenseman" is so much more valuable than a guy like McQuaid, how the game has no place for players like McQuaid and McLeod and being tough proves nothing and the Bruins shouldn't have players like that while a non physical player who would never fight or stick up for himself or his teammates is so much smarter and better to have on the team.

Then will come the "bruins fans love physical hockey but not dumb goons" responses, even those making those statements will tell you how they don't need anybody tough and that Noel Accari is all they need for a physical forward while a key component like Austin Czarnik is being wasted or better yet how Alex Khokoklachev was never given a fair shot in the NHL.

All I can tell you is that having a player that is willing to do what McQuaid does for his teammates is invaluable. Anyone who has played this sport can attest to that.

 

[Fenian24]

All I can tell you is that having a player that is willing to do what McQuaid does for his teammates is invaluable. Anyone who has played this sport can attest to that.

Agree completely

 

[Seidenbergy]

What's ridiculous is the notion that you seem to believe that what McQuaid did does not change the dynamic of future meetings between the two teams and two players.

Like I said just ask Lucic and Komisarek if that notion rings true.

Why is it ridiculous? You're talking about 4 different people. Different situations. Different people involved. Not everyone reacts the same way to everything.

Marchand has been suspended by the league for questionable hits before. Has it stopped him?
Plenty of dirty players have had their heads smashed in. Is it your argument that all of them stopped laying dirty hits after said beatings? Good luck with that.

 

[Otherworld]

Why is it ridiculous? You're talking about 4 different people. Different situations. Different people involved. Not everyone reacts the same way to everything.

Marchand has been suspended by the league for questionable hits before. Has it stopped him?
Plenty of dirty players have had their heads smashed in. Is it your argument that all of them stopped laying dirty hits after said beatings? Good luck with that.

Having a player like McQuaid is a deterrent for players to take liberties on our players. Will it always stop things from happening... of course not. But McQuaid is able to have a word (and back it up) with players that may think about taking liberties with our players and that may be enough to curb things at that moment.

Like you said, not everyone reacts the same way to everything.

As many examples as you could point out that players like McQuaid did not stop any dirty play from happening, the same could be said for guys thinking twice about doing something after they see McQuaid skating their way...

It's a 2 way street my friend.

 

[Otherworld]

Why are we lumping McQuaid and McLeod together?

McQuaid has clearly worked hard on his game to make himself a better and more well-rounded player. Boston might be the only team in the league deep enough at RD to even debate whether he should be in the line-up or not.

McLeod just got place on waivers by a top team. Sure the Rangers picked him up, they are also about to have a fire sale and need warm bodies.

Sorry, I am not lumping them together, I mentioned them as they fought recently. That's all.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

I've never been a fan of "goons" in the NHL, going back to when I started watching hockey I would always take a O'Reilly over a Carlson or later a Miller or Byers over a Caulfield. While Bill Goldthorpe may have been entertaining in the minors it's where he should have stayed.

Today there is no way you can survive just as a fighter but being willing and able to fight should be looked at as a plus over a "skilled" player who produces at the same level not a detriment.

I don’t think anyone ever denies that if all else is equal the player who is physical is more valuable than one who doesn’t.

 

[Fenian24]

I don’t think anyone ever denies that if all else is equal the player who is physical is more valuable than one who doesn’t.

I don't know about that. Ask how many here would trade Kassian straight up for Accari. Same player, Kassian is probably a little bit better defensively, but because Kassian takes "bad penalties" and fights he is viewed by many as less valuable than Accari. There is a portion of this board who are as adamantly anti fighting as I am pro and even if the player in question is a better player than the player who is softer they would take the softer player who doesn't take penalties. The same is true in a Vatrano for Kassian trade. Not condemning either of those Bruins but they are not as valuable to the team as a Kassian.

I agree the game has changed, I feel for the worse, but a player who is willing to hit and fight is more valuable than a player with the same skill set who will not do those things. This isn't even talking about a player being unwilling to take a hit to make a play or drive the net.

 

[Fenian24]

Sorry, I am not lumping them together, I mentioned them as they fought recently. That's all.

I believe BD was referencing me using McQuaid and McLeod as examples.

 

[BruinDust]

I believe BD was referencing me using McQuaid and McLeod as examples.

I was.

Just see two very different players here in terms of their value to a team winning hockey games.

McQuaid doesn't get enough credit for how much his overall game has improved since the start of 2015-16. He had a lapse from the time he returned from a concussion in the spring of 2016 until about Nov. of that year. But otherwise he's been solid and steadily improved. I think he's a far better player now than he was during 2011 or 2013.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Having a player like McQuaid is a deterrent for players to take liberties on our players. Will it always stop things from happening... of course not. But McQuaid is able to have a word (and back it up) with players that may think about taking liberties with our players and that may be enough to curb things at that moment.

Like you said, not everyone reacts the same way to everything.

As many examples as you could point out that players like McQuaid did not stop any dirty play from happening, the same could be said for guys thinking twice about doing something after they see McQuaid skating their way...

It's a 2 way street my friend.

LOL. So he's a deterrent, but he's not a deterrent.

Got it.

(This site has gone round and round over this literally every day for the last xx years. Guys took liberties against us when we were the Big Bad Bruins and had Chara, Looch, Thorton, etc. all in their prime. It doesn't stop things from happening, guys from taking runs, etc. It just doesn't. As you said, it's easy to provide the examples for this. There is literally no way to provide examples of guys saying "yup, I was gonna run XX until I saw McQuaid out there." You can't prove a negative.)

 

[Otherworld]

LOL. So he's a deterrent, but he's not a deterrent.

Got it.

(This site has gone round and round over this literally every day for the last xx years. Guys took liberties against us when we were the Big Bad Bruins and had Chara, Looch, Thorton, etc. all in their prime. It doesn't stop things from happening, guys from taking runs, etc. It just doesn't. As you said, it's easy to provide the examples for this. There is literally no way to provide examples of guys saying "yup, I was gonna run XX until I saw McQuaid out there." You can't prove a negative.)

It is quite obvious there is no way to stop things from happening but my proof lies in what you mentioned earlier, not everyone reacts the same way to everything. There is absolutely no way you can tell me that even more liberties wouldn't have been taken without the likes of Chara, Looch, Thorton, etc.

I am sure that all of the hockey knowledge that players, coaches, GM's, etc have attained throughout all of their years in this business put them in a position to really have no idea what they are doing and choose to toss money and a roster spot on guys like McQuaid.

( Just an FYI, that ^ was sarcastic)

 

[Seidenbergy]

my proof lies in what you mentioned earlier, not everyone reacts the same way to everything. There is absolutely no way you can tell me that even more liberties wouldn't have been taken without the likes of Chara, Looch, Thorton, etc.

We define "proof" very differently.

 

[Otherworld]

We define "proof" very differently.

I guess we do ....

 

[dafoomie]

LOL. So he's a deterrent, but he's not a deterrent.

Got it.

(This site has gone round and round over this literally every day for the last xx years. Guys took liberties against us when we were the Big Bad Bruins and had Chara, Looch, Thorton, etc. all in their prime. It doesn't stop things from happening, guys from taking runs, etc. It just doesn't. As you said, it's easy to provide the examples for this. There is literally no way to provide examples of guys saying "yup, I was gonna run XX until I saw McQuaid out there." You can't prove a negative.)

Thus you can not prove your opinion either.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Thus you can not prove your opinion either.

Incorrect.

If guys are still being run with him playing, then yes, my point is proven. Guys are going to take liberties no matter how much muscle you put out there.

 

[Fenian24]

Incorrect.

If guys are still being run with him playing, then yes, my point is proven. Guys are going to take liberties no matter how much muscle you put out there.

Yet the Penguins gave up a first round pick for Ryan Reaves to make people think twice about running Crosby, Malkin and the thrill.

 

[jgatie]

Incorrect.

If guys are still being run with him playing, then yes, my point is proven. Guys are going to take liberties no matter how much muscle you put out there.

Use the same argument about stop signs and see where your logic is flawed.

So tell me, if there are still accidents at intersections that have stop signs, does that mean stop signs are ineffective at preventing accidents?

 

[Seidenbergy]

Yet the Penguins gave up a first round pick for Ryan Reaves to make people think twice about running Crosby, Malkin and the thrill.

Good for them. 100% of the moves teams make work out as intended. True story.

Use the same argument about stop signs and see where your logic is flawed.

So tell me, if there are still accidents at intersections that have stop signs, does that mean stop signs are ineffective at preventing accidents?

Depends on what your threshold is for true effectiveness.

Deterrents rely on a perfect, non-human world to work perfectly. Everyone involved needs to be (1) a logical thinker, (2) have no emotion and (3) determine that the potential benefit does not outweigh the punishment, and the deterrent itself needs to actually operate at 100% efficiency. Stop signs won't work perfectly as long as humans are involved in driving, as long as cars operate at less than 100% efficiency and as long as roads are not in 100% perfect condition. Same with hockey. For someone to be a true deterrent against guys taking runs at players, the players involved need to essentially be robots.

 

[jgatie]

Good for them. 100% of the moves teams make work out as intended. True story.



Depends on what your threshold is for true effectiveness.

Deterrents rely on a perfect, non-human world to work perfectly. Everyone involved needs to be (1) a logical thinker, (2) have no emotion and (3) determine that the potential benefit does not outweigh the punishment, and the deterrent itself needs to actually operate at 100% efficiency. Stop signs won't work perfectly as long as humans are involved in driving, as long as cars operate at less than 100% efficiency and as long as roads are not in 100% perfect condition. Same with hockey. For someone to be a true deterrent against guys taking runs at players, the players involved need to essentially be robots.

Right. Still, nobody can honestly say having players willing to fight does nothing to stop cheap shots. Besides the logical thinkers like Backlund and Hathaway who know McQuaid will kick their ass so they calm things down, there will always be nut jobs like Cooke and Ulf, and turtlers like PK and Orpik, who take no heed.

I imagine if you ask random people why a car stopped at an intersection instead of driving right through, the majority would say they saw a stop sign. Just like interviews with players state that having a guy who will stick up for you makes other players calm down on the cheap stuff. There is no panacea, but that doesn't mean you don't use the medicine that seems to work sometimes.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Right. Still, nobody can honestly say having players willing to fight does nothing to stop cheap shots. Besides the logical thinkers like Backlund and Hathaway who know McQuaid will kick their ass so they calm things down, there will always be nut jobs like Cooke and Ulf, and turtlers like PK and Orpik, who take no heed.

I imagine if you ask random people why a car stopped at an intersection instead of driving right through, the majority would say they saw a stop sign. Just like interviews with players state that having a guy who will stick up for you makes other players calm down on the cheap stuff. There is no panacea, but that doesn't mean you don't use the medicine that seems to work sometimes.

100% agree with all this. Just want to be clear on that because I have a feeling my argument is being mis-characterized.

 

[RustyBruins72]

I like the idea of an "own rental". Keeping Quaider as the 7 instead of trading for a depth guy. With that said, if the bruins go out and get a top 3/4 guy then I'm fine if Darth sits or is moved and Killer becomes the odd man out.

 

[GoBs]

Good PK guy sitting in the stands ridiculous. Seems they are giving up a PP goal every game.