Adam Fox vs. Rasmus Dahlin

[Aladyyn]

According to Jfresh model (WAR), Evolving Hockey's model (xGAR), Dom's model, CF%, SF%, GF%, xGF%, SCF%, HDCF%.... All in terms of on-ice and relative. If that's cherry picking though. They're both having a fantastic season and I could lean both ways depending on the day, but you just seem to be making assumptions based on.. nothing.

Wonder why you chose that one instead of GAR...

 

[Buck Naked]

Wonder why you chose that one instead of GAR...

He asked which stats showed Fox as better..

 

[bert]

I'm not calling Fox generational either. What I am saying is that Fox is better defensively and just as good offensively. Of course, Dahlin and Fox are different types of players, but, at least for now, is the better defenseman.

For now yes Fox is better. But it's close. No one in their right mind trades Dahlin for Fox though.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

This season it’s Dahlin. Fox is way behind in points and most of his assists are secondary so he’s not as impactful like Dahlin who is leading his team playmaking (Fox is behind both Panarin and Zibanejad in primary assists).

Fox would have to up his playmaking by a lot to get close to Dahlin. Rangers is also overall a stronger team than Sabres so there’s really no good excuse why he is so far behind Dahlin and other dmen except him being an inferior playmaking dman.

7 points back isn't "way behind".

 

[GAGLine]

Yeah Fox is better team playmaker than Dahlin. We just need to figure out why Dahlin is leading substantially in primary assists while Fox isn’t even the top playmaker in the Rangers.

I didn't think this needed to be explained, but I guess it does. Making passes 5 on 5 is harder than making them 5 on 4. Also, significantly more of the game is played at 5 on 5 than on the PP.

How do YOU explain the fact that Fox is better at 5 on 5? Or maybe you want to take a look at Fox's PP numbers from last year (you know, when the Rangers' PP was actually on par with Buffalo's this season). Because Fox's PP numbers last year were better the Dahlin's are this year. I guess he just forgot how to make passes on the PP.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

According to Jfresh model (WAR), Evolving Hockey's model (xGAR), Dom's model, CF%, SF%, GF%, xGF%, SCF%, HDCF%.... All in terms of on-ice and relative. If that's cherry picking though. They're both having a fantastic season and I could lean both ways depending on the day, but you just seem to be making assumptions based on.. nothing.

Would WAR stats consider things like usage, team style of play, and goalie? Generally curious.

 

[EverTheCynic]

Would WAR stats consider things like usage, team style of play, and goalie? Generally curious.

WAR and GAR are completely fabricated nonsense and do not exist in hockey. I recommend using the ignore function on anyone referencing them.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This season it’s Dahlin. Fox is way behind in points and most of his assists are secondary so he’s not as impactful like Dahlin who is leading his team playmaking (Fox is behind both Panarin and Zibanejad in primary assists).

Fox would have to up his playmaking by a lot to get close to Dahlin. Rangers is also overall a stronger team than Sabres so there’s really no good excuse why he is so far behind Dahlin and other dmen except him being an inferior playmaking dman.

Fox has 48p on 155 Rangers goals (31.0%).
Dahlin has 55p 185 Sabres goals. (29.7%)

Fox is only 2 points behind the Rangers leading scorer.
Dahlin trails Thompson by 13 points.

Dahlin is almost as good as Fox offensively. But defensively it's not even close. Dahlin has made some significant defensive improvements to become above average in that regard. But he's not world class elite like Fox.

 

[Honest M]

Dahlin is better now and the gap will only get bigger, Fox is good but have plenty of defensive bloopers.

 

[psycat]

Can't pick wrong here in my mind. I rank Makar slightly above both but that could change as soon as next season.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

WAR and GAR are completely fabricated nonsense and do not exist in hockey. I recommend using the ignore function on anyone referencing them.

It just seems to me that there are a lot of factors as a defenseman that can change the outcome of analytics. Goalie being one of them. If player A has a Vezina caliber goalie on his team and player B has an AHL goalie on his team. Of course the analytics are going to look better for player A on a defensive standpoint. His goalie stops more pucks.

 

[QJL]

Dahlin is better now and the gap will only get bigger, Fox is good but have plenty of defensive bloopers.

Defensive bloopers? Really? We’d love to see some. Guy is as steady as they come.

 

[QJL]

Those are even strenght stats. The downside with those stats is that players like McDavid and Dahlin are underestimated since they don’t take into consideration the game changing impact they have on PP. JFresh model is obviously junk ranking Dahlin so low. WAR is more suitable for baseball. It is a horrible stat in hockey. Regarding my arguments they have already been put forth in previous post. Dahlin is simply a more complete playmaker than Fox as seen in the difference in points.

Fox had more power play assists than McDavid last year. He is one of the best power play quarterbacks in the league. Not his fault Kreider and Panarin have had big declines on the PP this year.

 

[klingsor]

Fox had more power play assists than McDavid last year. He is one of the best power play quarterbacks in the league. Not his fault Kreider and Panarin have had big declines on the PP this year.

It’s also not his fault for choosing who plays with him on PP1.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Fox is having a better season than his Norris season. Fox should honestly been in the Hart conversation which is very very packed.

He's the best and most important defenseman on any Cup contender.

He's also one of three Rangers alongside Chytil and Vesey that have not only met but surpassed expectations this season.


Usa Hockey is do or die

Homer post of the year.

 

[Honest M]

Defensive bloopers? Really? We’d love to see some. Guy is as steady as they come.

When pressured deep in own zone throw the puck right out to the attacking teem for example, he isn't at his best along the boards fighting big forwards. But he is quite a bit smaller then Dahlin.

 

[KapG]

Dahlin

 

[bondra]

Dahlin is better now and the gap will only get bigger, Fox is good but have plenty of defensive bloopers.

Yeah gap will only get bigger for Fox when Sabres scoring will drop next season. Tuch has 5 points more than Panarin, is he better than Panarin?

 

[The S5]

When pressured deep in own zone throw the puck right out to the attacking teem for example, he isn't at his best along the boards fighting big forwards. But he is quite a bit smaller then Dahlin.

Tell me you never watch Fox play without telling me you never watch Fox play.

 

[QJL]

When pressured deep in own zone throw the puck right out to the attacking teem for example, he isn't at his best along the boards fighting big forwards. But he is quite a bit smaller than Dahlin.

Yeah I’m sorry but anyone who watches Adam Fox knows that’s not even close to an accurate player description. His breakout reads in the defensive zone are world class. He wins board battles with his brain. There isn’t a smarter player in the league.

If Fox had Dahlin’s physical attributes he would be one of the best defensemen the league has ever seen.

Yeah gap will only get bigger for Fox when Sabres scoring will drop next season. Tuch has 5 points more than Panarin, is he better than Panarin?

As a Rangers fan, I think Tuch has been a more effective player than Panarin this season for sure.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

 

[FlyguyOX]

Fox and it’s not that close.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

 

[Honest M]

If Fox had Dahlin’s physical attributes he would be one of the best defensemen the league has ever seen.



As a Rangers fan, I think Tuch has been a more effective player than Panarin this season for sure.

Not to piss at Fox, eaven a great offensive skating D will get caught out of position now and then it's a risk you take. And you have to utilize the tools you have in the best way possible.

IMO Fox are faster and have more expulsive skating, probably due to lighter weight

 

[bondra]

As a Rangers fan, I think Tuch has been a more effective player than Panarin this season for sure.

Yeah but is he better player, would you rank Tuch above Panarin because of one season?