Adam Fox vs. Rasmus Dahlin

[bert]

Fox now, Dahlin in the future. Just scratching the surface.

 

[Regal]

They have the exact same amount of even strength points. Dahlin also has more goals and since when is pp production a strike against a player? One player has one of the best goalies in the league while the other has ahl fodder between the pipes and yet dahlin is still what like plus 22 while playing a minute more a game on average.

Fox has 1 more 5v5 point in fewer minutes, so he’s been a better rate scorer. It’s a small advantage but we’re looking at two of the best in the league. I never dismissed the PP, and I have no idea how you’d get that since I literally mentioned Dahlin’s PP advantage. My point was that Fox has been better 5v5 since he’s been better both more productive offensively (slightly) and better defensively, and 5v5 play is more important than PP play imo, particularly for defensemen. I’m not sure why you’re bringing up plus minus and poor goalies like I’ve said anything negative about Dahlin. He’s in the Norris discussion and is having a great season. That doesn’t mean Fox hasn’t been a bit better. And it’s so f***ing exhausting when homers on this site get bent out of shape and pretend their player is being slighted for suggesting another great player is a bit better

 

[alvinia]

Adam Fox

 

[The S5]

Mr. Generational was looking pretty average against strong Carolina team last night.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Mr. Generational was looking pretty average against strong Carolina team last night.

Bust

 

[UnSandvich]

Rangers PP has gone stale & predictable lately. If that starts heating up again, i think the gap in this poll will widen again

 

[dire wolf]

Mr. Generational was looking pretty average against strong Carolina team last night.

The whole team looked stale and sloppy. They were mis-playing pucks all night. Credit to Carolina - they look great - but that was Buffalo's worst game in a while.

As for this poll, I've watched every Sabres game this year and only a few Rangers games, so I'm not going to vote. But the correct answer is probably choice C: too close to call/splitting hairs.

 

[Zman5778]

But the correct answer is probably choice C: too close to call/splitting hairs.

I feel like this is the correct answer as well.

 

[Zman5778]

Rangers PP has gone stale & predictable lately. If that starts heating up again, i think the gap in this poll will widen again

Strangely enough, so has the Sabres'..................................

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Mr. Generational was looking pretty average against strong Carolina team last night.

 

[The S5]

The whole team looked stale and sloppy. They were mis-playing pucks all night. Credit to Carolina - they look great - but that was Buffalo's worst game in a while.

As for this poll, I've watched every Sabres game this year and only a few Rangers games, so I'm not going to vote. But the correct answer is probably choice C: too close to call/splitting hairs.

I'm not calling Fox generational either. What I am saying is that Fox is better defensively and just as good offensively. Of course, Dahlin and Fox are different types of players, but, at least for now, is the better defenseman.

 

[Guy Tetreault]

Really? Both over Makar?

This year, Yes! Fox is better defensively and Dahlin is better offensively

 

[HugeInTheShire]

This year, Yes! Fox is better defensively and Dahlin is better offensively

Alright, I mean I won’t argue all 3 are pretty good

 

[OskarOskarius]

This season it’s Dahlin. Fox is way behind in points and most of his assists are secondary so he’s not as impactful like Dahlin who is leading his team playmaking (Fox is behind both Panarin and Zibanejad in primary assists).

Fox would have to up his playmaking by a lot to get close to Dahlin. Rangers is also overall a stronger team than Sabres so there’s really no good excuse why he is so far behind Dahlin and other dmen except him being an inferior playmaking dman.

 

[Buck Naked]

This season it’s Dahlin. Fox is way behind in points and most of his assists are secondary so he’s not as impactful like Dahlin who is leading his team playmaking (Fox is behind both Panarin and Zibanejad in primary assists).

Fox would have to up his playmaking by a lot to get close to Dahlin. Rangers is also overall a stronger team than Sabres so there’s really no good excuse why he is so far behind Dahlin and other dmen except him being an inferior playmaking dman.

They have the same amount of primary assists 5v5 and Fox is one point ahead in total all while his underlying metrics are far superior which should tell you that there's nothing wrong whatsoever with Fox's playmaking. Being productive on the power play is no where near as impressive as 5v5.

 

[OskarOskarius]

They have the same amount of primary assists 5v5 and Fox is one point ahead in total all while his underlying metrics are far superior which should tell you that there's nothing wrong whatsoever with Fox's playmaking. Being productive on the power play is no where near as impressive as 5v5.

What underlying metrics would that be (time for some cherry picking jay!)

 

[Buck Naked]

What underlying metrics would that be (time for some cherry picking jay!)

According to Jfresh model (WAR), Evolving Hockey's model (xGAR), Dom's model, CF%, SF%, GF%, xGF%, SCF%, HDCF%.... All in terms of on-ice and relative. If that's cherry picking though. They're both having a fantastic season and I could lean both ways depending on the day, but you just seem to be making assumptions based on.. nothing.

 

[bigdog16]

Obviously Dahlin’s future is very bright, but I can’t remember eve watching a Rangers game and saying after “wow Fox had a bad game”. Which says a lot. He is consistently the best player on the ice regardless of opponent

 

[Wierzbowski426]

Voted Dahlin but thats because these 2 are so close the tie breaker for me was just my dislike of Fox for pulling his college stunt and forcing to the rangers.

Would love to have either one.

 

[OskarOskarius]

According to Jfresh model (WAR), Evolving Hockey's model (xGAR), Dom's model, CF%, SF%, GF%, xGF%, SCF%, HDCF%.... All in terms of on-ice and relative. If that's cherry picking though. They're both having a fantastic season and I could lean both ways depending on the day, but you just seem to be making assumptions based on.. nothing.

Those are even strenght stats. The downside with those stats is that players like McDavid and Dahlin are underestimated since they don’t take into consideration the game changing impact they have on PP. JFresh model is obviously junk ranking Dahlin so low. WAR is more suitable for baseball. It is a horrible stat in hockey. Regarding my arguments they have already been put forth in previous post. Dahlin is simply a more complete playmaker than Fox as seen in the difference in points.

 

[Buck Naked]

Those are even strenght stats. The downside with those stats is that players like McDavid and Dahlin are underestimated since they don’t take into consideration the game changing impact they have on PP. JFresh model is obviously junk ranking Dahlin so low. WAR is more suitable for baseball. It is a horrible stat in hockey. Regarding my arguments they have already been put forth in previous post. Dahlin is simply a more complete playmaker than Fox as seen in the difference in points.

Yes. I'm sure McDavid's stats points to him being underestimated.

 

[GAGLine]

Those are even strenght stats. The downside with those stats is that players like McDavid and Dahlin are underestimated since they don’t take into consideration the game changing impact they have on PP. JFresh model is obviously junk ranking Dahlin so low. WAR is more suitable for baseball. It is a horrible stat in hockey. Regarding my arguments they have already been put forth in previous post. Dahlin is simply a more complete playmaker than Fox as seen in the difference in points.

If you believe this then you've never actually watched Fox play.

 

[OskarOskarius]

Yes. I'm sure McDavid's stats points to him being underestimated.

View attachment 645294

I’m was talking about EV stats not WAR (which is a crap model as examplified with Dahlin not being rated highly). It’s a baseball model that doesn’t work with hockey.

If you believe this then you've never actually watched Fox play.

Yeah Fox is better team playmaker than Dahlin. We just need to figure out why Dahlin is leading substantially in primary assists while Fox isn’t even the top playmaker in the Rangers.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It's Fox.

He just doesn't really make miskakes or get beat.

Dahlin obviously makes plays on both sides of the puck but he giveth up some too.

This is confirmed by eye test and backed up by analytics.

 

[Rengorlex]

Those are even strenght stats. The downside with those stats is that players like McDavid and Dahlin are underestimated since they don’t take into consideration the game changing impact they have on PP. JFresh model is obviously junk ranking Dahlin so low. WAR is more suitable for baseball. It is a horrible stat in hockey. Regarding my arguments they have already been put forth in previous post. Dahlin is simply a more complete playmaker than Fox as seen in the difference in points.

I actually agree that the basis these models work on they have no proper way of evaluating powerplay performance, especially for playmakers. The even strength playdriving stats are fairly solid though.