Adam Fox vs. Rasmus Dahlin

[QJL]

Who is the better player?

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[Hisch13r]

Fox. Norris winner 2 years ago and deserves it again

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Fox pretty easily. Much better defender.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

This year its Dahlin. He's playing like a juggernaut and deserves the Norris this year.

 

[Aladyyn]

Fox pretty easily. Much better defender.

Slightly, if at all.

 

[Regal]

Fox has had the bit better season imo, and has the better track record, including in the playoffs. I’d put him ahead for now. He’s one of the smartest players in the game and is better in his own zone while also very good offensively. Dahlin has better physical tools and is more talented offensively. I wouldn’t fault anyone for putting him ahead right now, but I don’t think he is just yet.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Fox has the track record and is pretty much equal with Dahlin this year so I'll say him. For now. But the post about him being a "much better defender" is a 2021 take.

I'd rather have Dahlin going forward (clearly, look at my avatar).

 

[Guy Tetreault]

Selon moi, actuellement, ils sont les 2 meilleurs de la ligue.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Selon moi, actuellement, ils sont les 2 meilleurs de la ligue.

Really? Both over Makar?

 

[MasterofGrond]

It’s Fox.

And I loathe the guy.

 

[Rempe73]

Fox. He’s just a different kind of player, and his deception is unlike anything I’ve seen in an NHL player. This is close though, which is a testament to how good Dahlin is.

 

[Machinehead]

Fox. Norris winner 2 years ago and deserves it again

Fox pretty easily. Much better defender.

Devils fans who like Adam Fox is not the vibe we deserve, and I'm not even sure it's the vibe we need.

But it certainly is a vibe.

 

[Machinehead]

Make the votes public, I wanna know who these cowards and heretics are.

 

[JT Kreider]

Fox is having a better season than his Norris season. Fox should honestly been in the Hart conversation which is very very packed.

He's the best and most important defenseman on any Cup contender.

He's also one of three Rangers alongside Chytil and Vesey that have not only met but surpassed expectations this season.

Devils fans who like Adam Fox is not the vibe we deserve, and I'm not even sure it's the vibe we need.

But it certainly is a vibe.

Usa Hockey is do or die

 

[Hisch13r]

Fox is having a better season than his Norris season. Fox should honestly been in the Hart conversation which is very very packed.

He's the best and most important defenseman on any Cup contender.

He's also one of three Rangers alongside Chytil and Vesey that have not only met but surpassed expectations this season.


Usa Hockey is do or die

I don’t even care about US hockey

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Fox has had the bit better season imo, and has the better track record, including in the playoffs. I’d put him ahead for now. He’s one of the smartest players in the game and is better in his own zone while also very good offensively. Dahlin has better physical tools and is more talented offensively. I wouldn’t fault anyone for putting him ahead right now, but I don’t think he is just yet.

Hes not having a better season, though. Dahlin is having the 2nd best season from a defender at this point of the season.

 

[Hisch13r]

Hes not having a better season, though. Dahlin is having the 2nd best season from a defender at this point of the season.

He’s not. He’s 3rd. Fox has been the best and Karlsson has been 2nd.

 

[Regal]

Hes not having a better season, though. Dahlin is having the 2nd best season from a defender at this point of the season.

That’s great that you think that but I disagree. His underlying numbers are better (relative, regression, GAR, etc), he’s been a better 5v5 producer and better defensively, and I don’t think Dahlin’s PP advantage is enough. There isn’t some purely objective measure of overall value.

 

[Ben White]

He’s not. He’s 3rd. Fox has been the best and Karlsson has been 2nd.

Fox is 18 points behind Karlsson by the All Star break, if both keep their pace it’ll be a 26 point margin by season end despite Fox playing with Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider etc. on the PP while SJ more often than not can’t even get set on the man advantage. The offensive gap is so huge I can’t see any defensive metric compensating for that.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

That’s great that you think that but I disagree. His underlying numbers are better (relative, regression, GAR, etc), he’s been a better 5v5 producer and better defensively, and I don’t think Dahlin’s PP advantage is enough. There isn’t some purely objective measure of overall value.

They have the exact same amount of even strength points. Dahlin also has more goals and since when is pp production a strike against a player? One player has one of the best goalies in the league while the other has ahl fodder between the pipes and yet dahlin is still what like plus 22 while playing a minute more a game on average.

 

[Chips]

Fox is 18 points behind Karlsson by the All Star break, if both keep their pace it’ll be a 26 point margin by season end despite Fox playing with Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider etc. on the PP while SJ more often than not can’t even get set on the man advantage. The offensive gap is so huge I can’t see any defensive metric compensating for that.

Defense is kind of a key part of the position. They’re neck and neck, but my point isn’t that an elite offensive Dman is bad if he doesn’t play defensively, rather that it can be more consequential for a defenseman to go balls out than for a forward, as the forwards covering for the defenseman (if someone even got back there in time) aren’t nearly as equipped to defend the blue line or neutral zone in that role as even many of the worst defensive defenseman

There generally trade off playing one way or another and that’s why it’s way overly simplistic to compare defenseman entirely or mostly on points.


Karlsson is having a generational offensive season for a Dman but Fox is having a truly elite two way season, dominant in all three zones.


It’s closer than you want it to be, at least right now, but it quite possibly will come down to preference at the end of the season. Personally I think Karlsson getting 100 pts will clinch the Norris for him unless the Rangers go on a tear at the end of the season and approach the playoffs looking like a strong contender which Fox will no doubt get much credit for

 

[JT Kreider]

Fox is 18 points behind Karlsson by the All Star break, if both keep their pace it’ll be a 26 point margin by season end despite Fox playing with Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider etc. on the PP while SJ more often than not can’t even get set on the man advantage. The offensive gap is so huge I can’t see any defensive metric compensating for that.

Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider suck and so does the Ranger stale ass PP

It's the other way around. Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider get to play with Fox.

Do we also get to talk about how Karlsson is afforded the opportunity to play all out pond hockey playing catch up the majority of games and that is inflating his stats? Playing against the easiest competition in the worst division in hockey?

Compared to Fox who is playing for one of the strictest coaches while having to actually focus on defense for a full 60 minutes?

 

[Ben White]

Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider suck and so does the Ranger stale ass PP

It's the other way around. Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider get to play with Fox.

Do we also get to talk about how Karlsson is afforded the opportunity to play all out pond hockey playing catch up the majority of games and that is inflating his stats? Playing against the easiest competition in the worst division in hockey?

Compared to Fox who is playing for one of the strictest coaches while having to actually focus on defense for a full 60 minutes?

Lamest argument, Karlsson has to be the creator behind almost every point he gets which is extremely unusual for Dmen who usually depend a lot on “passenger assists” playing with skilled forwards and strong finishers. SJ has one strong finisher (not elite however) on the entire roster and has 3 legit top 6 forwards. A seemingly impossible situation for a Dman to collect a lot of points regardless of the system.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Dahlin

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Usa Hockey is do or die

That probably explains why I think Kreider and Carlson are incredibly overrated.

Oh wait.