Adam Fox vs. Rasmus Dahlin

[biturbo19]

I'd take Dahlin. He's a lot more fun to watch.


Fox is super soft and not very dynamic by comparison. Trouba and Miller taking a lot of tough minutes really flatters Fox imo. It's a bit like Ehrhoff back with those Canucks teams where HamJuice were the real unsung heroes, but Ehrhoff was flattered in the stats and looked at by a lot of people as the "top guy". Similar to Fox, he was a key linchpin in the team, but relied on the support of others taking on tough roles to be that successful.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Ridiculous poll result. Fox is clearly the better player.

 

[Beerz]

In 2 years Dahlin will be the 2nd best hockey player in the world.

Right now.. this one is close.

Bias goes to Dahlin.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I'd take Dahlin. He's a lot more fun to watch.


Fox is super soft and not very dynamic by comparison. Trouba and Miller taking a lot of tough minutes really flatters Fox imo. It's a bit like Ehrhoff back with those Canucks teams where HamJuice were the real unsung heroes, but Ehrhoff was flattered in the stats and looked at by a lot of people as the "top guy". Similar to Fox, he was a key linchpin in the team, but relied on the support of others taking on tough roles to be that successful.

"Super soft" and Trouba/Miller helping him, lol. Fox was great as a defender during his rookie season even before Miller/Trouba joined the team. He's far from soft if you watch him play. And mentioning Ehrhoff with him, come on..lol

And yeah, he's not necessarily flashy or dynamic, but that's not his game.

Dahlin is going to be the best hockey defenseman in the world, no matter what NA fanboys are saying. He is younger and better than Makar for me personally

Dahlin is finally good this season, Makar has been good since his rookie season and has plenty of accolades to back it up. Dahlin could eventually be better, but he's not right now.

 

[Machinehead]

I'd take Dahlin. He's a lot more fun to watch.


Fox is super soft and not very dynamic by comparison. Trouba and Miller taking a lot of tough minutes really flatters Fox imo. It's a bit like Ehrhoff back with those Canucks teams where HamJuice were the real unsung heroes, but Ehrhoff was flattered in the stats and looked at by a lot of people as the "top guy". Similar to Fox, he was a key linchpin in the team, but relied on the support of others taking on tough roles to be that successful.

Fox faces harder competition than Trouba. It's not particularly close, either.

Fox's competition has a better xGF%, a better CF%, a better GAR, and plays more minutes. In a couple of these categories, Miller and Trouba are actually third behind Schneider and whoever Schneider is lugging around. The second pair is closer to the third pair than they are to Fox.

Classic HF just making things up about stuff we can measure.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Fox pretty easily. Much better defender.

If we're talking about who the better player is now, then it's not 'pretty easily' in either direction. Both are elite players right now.

Dahlin's potential is so enticing, though. With Fox- you have a reasonable idea of what you're getting for the next 10 years; an incredibly smart defenseman who can put up points and will likely be a top-5 defender throughout his prime. Dahlin, on the other hand, has an offensive game that can grow into something truly special, and his defensive game is improving every season.

Both are beauts, but damn- Dahlin could be the best defender of his generation. He's only 22! Three years younger than Fox. There are so many young talents on the backend- Makar, Fox, Dahlin, Heiskanen, etc...good time to be a fan of hockey!

 

[Mattilaus]

Saying Fox is an explosive skater is like saying Dahlin has a bomb of a slapshot.

I mean, you can say it. It's an "opinion" insofar as you literally can say it.

I am confused, are you trying to say Fox IS an explosive skater? Dahlin got 2nd in the hardest shot competition at 102.3 mph

 

[Machinehead]

I am confused, are you trying to say Fox IS an explosive skater? Dahlin got 2nd in the hardest shot competition at 102.3 mph

I fell asleep on the skills competition.

People told me Dahlin doesn't shoot that well. Eye test, am I right?

If that metaphor is inappropriate, Fox is as explosive as a wet sparkler.

 

[Mattilaus]

I fell asleep on the skills competition.

People told me Dahlin doesn't shoot that well. Eye test, am I right?

If that metaphor is inappropriate, Fox is as explosive as a wet sparkler.

No worries, I think his shot surprised a lot of people because he doesn't use it very often.

 

[TGWL]

I love what Dahlin is doing and he's probably only going to get better. But the poll isn't asking me who is going to end up better. The fascination people have with making these polls against top players is really something. Especially when all you get it "Who is the better player?" I'm not really sure why our fanbase needs validation on our players.

 

[UnSandvich]

Skating-wise, Dahlin is miles ahead of Fox. In fact, skating is probably Fox’s biggest weakness. Dahlin may not be a top end speedster like a McDavid, but he’s a very good skater. He’s kinda like Sean Day in that it’s so effortless, he can look slower than he actually is

 

[tsujimoto74]

Skating-wise, Dahlin is miles ahead of Fox. In fact, skating is probably Fox’s biggest weakness. Dahlin may not be a top end speedster like a McDavid, but he’s a very good skater. He’s kinda like Sean Day in that it’s so effortless, he can look slower than he actually is

The thing that constantly wows me about Dahlin's skating is the way he changes directions. Everyone in the world who watches hockey has seen a player do a head fake, right? But Dahlin does this move that I can only describe as a body fake, where he flips his hips in one direction and then takes off in another. Creates a lot of lanes for himself doing that while walking the blue line. And it's something I can't recall seeing another player do.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's Dahlin.

 

[stokes84]

this season dahlin.

And forever more

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

The thing that constantly wows me about Dahlin's skating is the way he changes directions. Everyone in the world who watches hockey has seen a player do a head fake, right? But Dahlin does this move that I can only describe as a body fake, where he flips his hips in one direction and then takes off in another. Creates a lot of lanes for himself doing that while walking the blue line. And it's something I can't recall seeing another player do.

This 100%. To add I've haven't seen to many guys that can be skating forward with decent speed, then skate backwards almost instantly and smoothly. His skating abilities are incredible.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

They have the exact same amount of even strength points. Dahlin also has more goals and since when is pp production a strike against a player? One player has one of the best goalies in the league while the other has ahl fodder between the pipes and yet dahlin is still what like plus 22 while playing a minute more a game on aelection.

Rangers fans all of last year heard that we suck because we can only score on the PP.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

In prior seasons Fox was criticized for getting a lot of his points on the PP, now that the PP cooled off (through no fault of his own) he is worse than Dahlin because he's not as good on the PP.

 

[Honest M]

Dahlin ofc better and younger

 

[mrmovies779]

I'd take Dahlin. He's a lot more fun to watch.


Fox is super soft and not very dynamic by comparison. Trouba and Miller taking a lot of tough minutes really flatters Fox imo. It's a bit like Ehrhoff back with those Canucks teams where HamJuice were the real unsung heroes, but Ehrhoff was flattered in the stats and looked at by a lot of people as the "top guy". Similar to Fox, he was a key linchpin in the team, but relied on the support of others taking on tough roles to be that successful.

Its ok to admit you have never seen Fox play before.

 

[biturbo19]

Its ok to admit you have never seen Fox play before.

I mean...if that were the case, sure, i'd admit it. But i don't know what part of that indicates to you that i haven't watched him plenty.


Are you disputing that under actual observation he's soft and physically disengaged? Are you disputing that he lacks in dynamic qualities? Is he fast, powerful, with a rocket of a shot? Watching him...that's clearly not the case.

Are you disputing that he isn't the beneficiary of a noticeable and heavy OZone Start% skew? Watching these players and backed up by the numbers...when a big defensive moment or matchup comes up, it's often Trouba and Miller coming over the boards. That means a lot more to me in real world terms, than murky Qualcomp metrics. Who does the coach throw over the boards for a defensive zone draw?

Just saying, "you said a disparaging thing about a player i like and therefore, you clearly have never watched him play" is a lazy, intellectually dishonest argument. What specifically about my statement indicated to you that i have somehow not ever watched a New York Rangers game featuring Adam Fox? Literally one of the leagues most notable players on one of the most widely broadcast megamarket teams.

 

[Regal]

I mean...if that were the case, sure, i'd admit it. But i don't know what part of that indicates to you that i haven't watched him plenty.


Are you disputing that under actual observation he's soft and physically disengaged? Are you disputing that he lacks in dynamic qualities? Is he fast, powerful, with a rocket of a shot? Watching him...that's clearly not the case.

Are you disputing that he isn't the beneficiary of a noticeable and heavy OZone Start% skew? Watching these players and backed up by the numbers...when a big defensive moment or matchup comes up, it's often Trouba and Miller coming over the boards. That means a lot more to me in real world terms, than murky Qualcomp metrics. Who does the coach throw over the boards for a defensive zone draw?

Just saying, "you said a disparaging thing about a player i like and therefore, you clearly have never watched him play" is a lazy, intellectually dishonest argument. What specifically about my statement indicated to you that i have somehow not ever watched a New York Rangers game featuring Adam Fox? Literally one of the leagues most notable players on one of the most widely broadcast megamarket teams.

Fox has more defensive zone starts 5v5 than Miller. He starts a greater percentage of his starts in the offensive zone because he’s also great offensively, but by any objective measure, the Fox-Lindgren pairing takes harder matchups than the Trouba-Miller pairing. Using the eye test for that is one of the worst things to use it for, because we simply can’t keep track of matchups with any regularity. Preferring Dahlin for his more dynamic and physical skills is fair, but the entire premise of Fox being an Ehrhoff type who benefits more from those around him than they do him, as if he’s not a clear cut top 5 defenseman, is absurd.

 

[centipede2233]

This is easily makar

 

[biturbo19]

Fox has more defensive zone starts 5v5 than Miller. He starts a greater percentage of his starts in the offensive zone because he’s also great offensively, but by any objective measure, the Fox-Lindgren pairing takes harder matchups than the Trouba-Miller pairing. Using the eye test for that is one of the worst things to use it for, because we simply can’t keep track of matchups with any regularity. Preferring Dahlin for his more dynamic and physical skills is fair, but the entire premise of Fox being an Ehrhoff type who benefits more from those around him than they do him, as if he’s not a clear cut top 5 defenseman, is absurd.

He may have more D zone starts by volume. But even then, at even strength, Miller plays as many or more minutes than Fox over the last couple years. So i'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. Trouba and Miller have a noticeably lower OZone start% than Fox and Lindgren.

You're saying the "eye test" is a bad way of measuring things, but to me...that remains the gold standard of actually "watching hockey". It's literally "watching hockey". And every time i watch the Rangers (which is a lot tbh), i see Trouba getting thrown out in his own zone for those critical defensive matchups.


The whole Ehrhoff thing is maybe hyperbole. But the reality with Ehrhoff, is that he was a badass. He completely transformed a lot of the way the Canucks could play during that era. He turned them from a team, to a contender. But the underlying reality was...he got tissue soft minutes. He absolutely crushed them, as Fox does. But i don't think you can just overlook the way that every big DZone faceoff where it's feasible...the coach is throwing somebody else over the boards. Fox isn't nearly as skewed as Ehrhoff was. But i was trying to use it as an illustrative point.

In that sense, i don't think Fox "benefits more from those around him" per se. He's a top tier offensive defenceman, and he's really not bad defensively. It's just that symbioses of being able to kill his minutes in his role, because there are others around him that are also very good in different ways.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Still Fox AINEC

Dahlin is going to be the best hockey defenseman in the world, no matter what NA fanboys are saying. He is younger and better than Makar for me personally

You were saying?

 

[rangersfansince08]

Fox faces harder competition than Trouba. It's not particularly close, either.

Fox's competition has a better xGF%, a better CF%, a better GAR, and plays more minutes. In a couple of these categories, Miller and Trouba are actually third behind Schneider and whoever Schneider is lugging around. The second pair is closer to the third pair than they are to Fox.

Classic HF just making things up about stuff we can measure.

Yea and another season where Fox is outproducing and outplaying the generational Dahlin