Post-Game Talk: A goal! Baby steps. 3-1 Wings

[ShaneFalco]

Babcock has a notorious rep for leaning on vets/grinders .. This isn't surprising. And as infuriating as it is to watch them play bigger minutes ahead of Nylander and Marner, etc, it's important to see that those kids have been struggling this year. They don't appear that they're ready to handle the load of leading the team yet. And throwing them into the deep end may do more damage than good at this point.

The vets need to step up amidst this losing streak - Marleau, Kadri, JVR, Bozak, etc ... And they haven't.

Good points.
I would also argue that some of our vets (especially JVR and Bozak) just don’t step up when needed. They were mediocre in the playoffs too. It has to be deflating as a young player to see the vets like Komarov on the PP and getting all kinds of ice time and doing very little.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yup. Time to realize that the idea that we have some amazing opportunity to win the cup now because the kids are on ELC's is a mirage. They need another couple of years and with that in mind, it's time to trade our pending UFA's and focus on the future. The future is not now.

Just recently the optimists were beating their chests saying in the playoffs we don't need to fear any team except TB. Well who has reason to fear us at this point?

lots of teams would fear us if we were playing to our strengths like at the beginning of the year

 

[BertCorbeau]

Yup. Time to realize that the idea that we have some amazing opportunity to win the cup now because the kids are on ELC's is a mirage. They need another couple of years and with that in mind, it's time to trade our pending UFA's and focus on the future. The future is not now.

Just recently the optimists were beating their chests saying in the playoffs we don't need to fear any team except TB. Well who has reason to fear us at this point?

There was so much hype after last season's success .. But they just scraped into the playoffs. And on top of the rookies having amazing first years, you have the likes of Bozak, Kadri, Gardiner, and nearly JVR having career years. That's hard to replicate. And it's probably a good thing because it makes the decision to move on from pending UFA's easier.

Another thing is that Babcock shouldn't be immune from criticism by any means .. But those who are making a stink about how he's handling Nylander/Marner and their development just need to see what he's done for Kadri in his development, and Rielly, and even Gardiner. Patience is required for the kids at the end of the day.

We've seen a lot of young teams fail to take the next step. And a lot of those teams throw their kids into the deep end too soon with little support. The Leafs need to avoid doing that.

 

[BertCorbeau]

lots of teams would fear us if we were playing to our strengths like at the beginning of the year

It's hard to play to your strengths when your best player is injured, and when two of your most skilled players have a combined 7 goals between them and have struggled to generate anything this year. Including when the Leafs were "playing at their strengths".

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

It's almost like he said there would be pain, but the team ended up being pretty good and the pain never came, so now he's manufacturing it on his own.

Whatever the master plan is, it's currently not working. Square peg in a round hole sort of situation where we're taking a team full of exciting and creative offensive talent and trying to make them play in a way they're just not wired to play. Tightening up D is one thing but trying to shift the mindset of almost an entire young team at once is a Herculean task.

I completely agree.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Nylander is one of the laziest players on the ice unless he has the puck. There is very few times that I see him compete for a full shift.

He is not lazy, he just does not have a style that make him engage much when he is without the puck. Lots of skill players play like that. Hate to bring up Gretzky but even the greatest played like that.

 

[Pookie]

Damn you drive narratives better than NASCAR drivers drive their cars. Do you still hold a grudge on that kid from 10th grade who you lent 5 dollars to that never paid you back?

Guess History was your least favourite subject?

See decisions of the past tend to have consequences in the future.

Not selling Bozak, Komarov etc at the deadline last year .... or the summer ... means they have roster spots this year.

I'm fine with it. Some of you are bitching though. Ironically, the ones that wanted to keep them last year.

Got your playoff experience. And now you have your aging vets taking up roster spots that could go to the players you want called up.

See how it's connected?

 

[Pookie]

Though Pookie, let’s also not ignore the fact there were reason to bring in Boyle beyond “experience “, namely the 4C position was a problem for the team all season.

Well, if it was important to solve it for 21 games and 2 playoff wins then yes. Maybe they solved it.

They got themselves into a playoff position without it though so there is nothing to say they couldn't have done it without him.

Either way, don't we hear so much about this depth on the farm? Why not dip into that and see what you have?

 

[Mess]

Reason for the Leafs loss

1) Missing their Star player Matthews .. without Auston this looks like a very ordinary team.
2) Tired ... 5 games in 7 days ending on a back to back, so its understandable that worn down would be a factor.
3) Playing on the road .. Home teams always have an advantage and win majority of games with advantages like last change and setting the matchups etc.
4) Leafs players not willing to work hard and compete hard as required, and get outworked, outplayed, outshot most nights including this one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

lots of teams would fear us if we were playing to our strengths like at the beginning of the year

That's a pretty big if. Most teams have stretches where they play well but there's little reason at this point to think the Leafs can do so for an extended period of time. Can you honestly say that we're better than maybe 50% to win even one playoff round at this point?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That's a pretty big if. Most teams have stretches where they play well but there's little reason at this point to think the Leafs can do so for an extended period of time. Can you honestly say that we're better than maybe 50% to win even one playoff round at this point?

the difference between us and most teams is our offensive talent (forwards + defense) is arguably the best in the league. When you can be the best in the league at something, you're a dangerous team

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Trash coach just like Boucher, unlike Boucher he was gifted the late 2000 red wings. When the going gets tough he resorts to a defensive shell and hopes for lucky goals. It may be effective at times, but it represents everything wrong with NHL hockey as a product in the past 20 years.

Exactly. This kind of hockey is boring, even if your team happens to win. It needs to go away.

 

[HarrisonFord]

And you put another guy who is doing well down? What about Nylander playing 13 mins?

I have a hard time believing that Nylander has any issue with confidence in himself

 

[56 Years No Cup]

It's hard to play to your strengths when your best player is injured, and when two of your most skilled players have a combined 7 goals between them and have struggled to generate anything this year. Including when the Leafs were "playing at their strengths".

Nylander sure ain't gonna break out of his slump sitting on the bench.

 

[Pookie]

Reason for the Leafs loss

1) Missing their Star player Matthews .. without Auston this looks like a very ordinary team.
2) Tired ... 5 games in 7 days ending on a back to back, so its understandable that worn down would be a factor.
3) Playing on the road .. Home teams always have an advantage and win majority of games with advantages like last change and setting the matchups etc.
4) Leafs players not willing to work hard and compete hard as required, and get outworked, outplayed, outshot most nights including this one.

Your #3 is an interesting one in the spreadsheet debate.

Our system. Our system. Our system.

Yet individual line match ups are intriguing. Do we play the same system with each line? Same break outs? Same d zone coverage? We have Matthews and Martin and give them the same plan?

PP and PK maybe. 5 on 5 in a reactionary game with multiple line changes and talent difference on the roster?

What about the opponents? Do they counter line by line with the same system?

I'm more convinced that Corsi is useless

 

[Trapper]

the difference between us and most teams is our offensive talent (forwards + defense) is arguably the best in the league. When you can be the best in the league at something, you're a dangerous team

There is a difference between regular season and playoffs. Who was our leading scorer in the playoffs last year? What playoff sample size do you have to indicate we are a force to be reckoned with?
The neutral zone will be locked down in the post season. You will have to fight through 4 rounds of 7 game series. How has the fearsome offense of the Capitals faired over the years?

 

[Mess]

lots of teams would fear us if we were playing to our strengths like at the beginning of the year

Other teams adjusted to the Leafs I think you mean.. .. This of course would be expected for NHL coaches to implement game strategies designed to minimize the oppositions strengths and force them to play to their weaknesses.

Teams recognized the Leafs have speed and its their strength as they love to attack on the rush, so you clog up the middle of the ice in the neutral zone and prevent then from getting their rushes going and bottle them up in their Dzone where they struggled to defend and win puck battles, while you maintain possession and run up the shot clock while running down the game clock.

Babcock has attempted to adjust himself by getting the Leafs themselves to dump and chase the puck to gain the offensive zone and establish their own attack in the Ozone. When the opposition is lined up at centre ice in defense that is how you have to compensate, instead of thinking you are going to be able to skate through a wall of defenders line up to prevent you.

Problem being even though the Leafs have the speed required to get in and hunt pucks deep, they seem to lack the size, strength and willingness required to battle and win 50/50 puck battles and board battles to re-establish puck possession. Only a few players like Hyman, Marleau, Brown and Matthews when he is healthy seem to be willing and able to aggressively forecheck and put real pressure on the opposition defense when you dump the puck in below the icing line and force the opponents Dmen to go get it themselves.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

There is a difference between regular season and playoffs. Who was our leading scorer in the playoffs last year? What playoff sample size do you have to indicate we are a force to be reckoned with?
The neutral zone will be locked down in the post season. You will have to fight through 4 rounds of 7 game series. How has the fearsome offense of the Capitals faired over the years?

how has the offense of the Penguins fared? The Blackhawks?
winning the cup is obviously hard to do, but there's no reason to think it's impossible for us

 

[CyBorgman]

I have a hard time believing that Nylander has any issue with confidence in himself

Confidence in a room full of professional athletes is not the same as day to day confidence.

 

[socko]

The vets need to step up amidst this losing streak - Marleau, Kadri, JVR, Bozak, etc ... And they haven't.

JVR has 15 goals, Kadri 13, Marleau 11. The vets are doing their job for the most part. Marleau is 38 years old. It's the youth that is failing badly.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

One thing I don't understand is that Babcock took Leivo out of the lineup for Kapanen, citing that he had fresh legs. Isn't that idiotic to anyone else?
Leivo is 24 years old and has played 10 games all year, including only 12 minutes TOI in his last one. Komarov is 30 has done nothing all year pretty much (his only 5v5 point was from game 1) and played 20 minutes the night before. why would he not take Komarov out for Kapanen so we could have fresh legs? Not to mention we have Carrick wasting away in the press box while he easily could have drawn in for Polak who had an awful game. What Babcock says and what he does seem to have no relation to eachother whatsoever

in the last 5 games, Komarov has played 96 minutes and recorded 0 points and 1 SOG in that time. pure garbage

 

[socko]

Babcock is a guy who made Team Canada play boring hockey. He's pretty special when it comes to taking the fun out of hockey.

 

[Mess]

JVR has 15 goals, Kadri 13, Marleau 11. The vets are doing their job for the most part. Marleau is 38 years old. It's the youth that is failing badly.

Leafs vets above are all ahead of last season goal totals on pace.

Its Nylander, Marner etc that are the problem. They were big parts of the offense last year and this year have all but disappeared and are lost out there.

It was hoped that when Auston was out, that one or both of Leafs other top kids would pick up the slack and carry the offensive torch.

Fans don't want to blame their obvious struggles on the team struggles, but Marner and Nylander have scored only 1 ES 5v5 goal each all year after 33 games.

Last year they use to carry their lines and the attack.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Hey remember when people were pointing out the warning signs but were told to "shut up and enjoy the wins"? If you people have always watched the Leafs with that mentality do you ever get tired of being wrong?

 

[Minus Mitch]

Babcock is a guy who made Team Canada play boring hockey. He's pretty special when it comes to taking the fun out of hockey.

And winning.