Post-Game Talk: #8 | Oilers 1 at FLYERS 2| Sat. Oct. 21, 1:00 pm ET

[deadhead]

Yeah good thing he's one of the better offensive defensemen in the league, which makes it a lot easier to overlook his defensive shortcomings.

I mean, did anybody think he was going to be a Chris Pronger on defense when he came out of Union? The story was that he was a dynamic skater and playmaker who could make some plays in the defensive zone with his active stick, but wouldn't be great muscling up against bigger forwards. Lo and behold, that's what he is in the NHL.

I don't expect him to be a dynamic force in his D-zone, he's always going to be limited by his size in tight spaces. That's part of the tradeoffs that come with his speed and agility and playmaking.

Ghost gets into trouble when he tries to do too much, that's part of learning your limitations. It's a problem for most talented young players, they're so used to dominating at lower levels they develop bad habits, and one thing they need to learn at the NHL level is the other guys are really talented, too.

It's not like he has to make major changes in his game, just cut back on dangerous turnovers, once or twice a game decide to play it safe when he doesn't have a clean entry and there's no one behind him.

You can see that with Sanheim, when the season started he was out of position too often, free lancing, trying to make things happen. Since he returned he's been more disciplined, still had a number of opportunitites to make plays, but wasn't forcing things. Over the course of a season, he'll have 3-4 chances a game to jump in, which means 250-300 opportunities over 80 games - hit on 10-15% of them and you're a 30 point ES D-man.

 

[Hurricane28]

A forward is behind you.

Ghost played probably 99.9% perfect game yesterday and we have post like this in here.

Him and Hagg had zero failed clears yesterday, and we have to hear about how Ghost is poor defensively.

 

[kelmitchell]

It's tempting to ride him, but his track record suggests you don't want to start him more than 40 games or so.

I bet you're the life of the party anywhere you go

 

[kelmitchell]

Him and Hagg had zero failed clears yesterday, and we have to hear about how Ghost is poor defensively.

If hes not a coaches pet he wont ever defend them, he will only bash them *fact* hence why he creams himself over Amac and weise

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Hopefully a forward who has rotated back.

The rest of your post is horse ****. Ghost has 7 giveaways so far this year. Less than the likes of Burns, McDonagh, Weber, Seabrook, Keith, Hedman, Doughty, and Subban.

Last year he wasn't even in the top twenty in giveaways for defensemen.

Great post.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

I bet you're the life of the party anywhere you go

I suspect the party invites are few and far between.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Ghost has looked pretty damn great and Hakstol is noticing, hasn't he led in TOI most games?

 

[deadhead]

I have higher expectation for better players.

Voracek is frustrating because he has the raw skill to be an perenniel all NHLforward. Size, speed, playmaking ability, he's playing with an edge this year, but that shot, oh that shot!

Ghost has rebounded from last season, if he improves his judgement (i.e. when to take risks), he'll be an elite offensive defenseman (Burns outscores his mistakes, but who else?).

Giroux looks much better this year, some of it is getting healthy, but I also think the move to LW really helps him, it's less physically demanding, especially on defense. Let Couts handle the big, fast centers.

Simmonds makes the most of his limitations, he's not a good puck handler, he's best as a scorer. Tough decision when it comes to an extension.

I've actually been a little disappointed in Provorov so far, not that he's playing worse, but that he hasn't made a jump yet this season, then I remember he's all of 20 years old. Same with Konency, who hasn't elevated his game yet. I have to remind myself that most top players don't hit their stride until they're 22-23.

I don't expect much of MacDonald or Weise or Lehtera or Read. I'm just happy they're not Schultz and old Streit and VdV and PEB and Cousins and Gordon. If Weise gets 25 ES points as the third line forward, that's a solid year from him. If MacDonald can continue to be a solid 3rd pair D-man fine.

Same with Elliott and Neuvirth, if at the end of the season they put up a .910-.915 save % (slightly above league average), that'll be a solid season from this pair.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I have higher expectation for better players.

I think you mean "taller" expectations - if they aren't 6'3", they can't play D.

 

[Hurricane28]

Provorov was a beast yesterday. Perhaps he can't make the jump because he's anchored down.

 

[Evergreen]

Also shows that Sanheim is by far the worst at exiting the D zone, failing almost half the time.

 

[deadhead]

I think you mean "taller" expectations - if they aren't 6'3", they can't play D.

Actually, "he ain't heavy, he's not my defenseman"

Height has a little advantage in terms of reach, but also means a higher center of gravity (unless most of your mass is in your thighs and gluteus maximus.
What you want is strength and low center of gravity and the ability to use leverage, see Provocop and Gudas.
Now Ceteris Paribus, bigger is better than smaller, or why it's fun to watch Hagg play defense and plaster people.
But you gotta move:



Size without mobility ain't worth much. See Luke Schenn.

 

[deadhead]

Also shows that Sanheim is by far the worst at exiting the D zone, failing almost half the time.

He'll figure it out.

But that's the problem with playing rookies, to get better they have to play, because you learn through your mistakes, but the rest of the team has to live with those mistakes in the meantime.

 

[whitstifier]

Only saw the last two periods, but I noticed Gostisbehere break up a few zone entries and clear the puck with purpose. Also had a few good transition plays out from deep in the d-zone. Led some rushes.

What does dynamic mean again?

 

[AdamParrot]

Great 2 points, guys. 10 points after 8 games.
Second (in our division) PIT has 11pts but we have 1 game less.

I think that it's very good start for us.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hate to say hit, but I think Couturier is already injured from a hit he took in period 1 of the Nashville game. Night/day relating to that moment in time.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I have zero interest in breaking up the Ghost/Hagg pairing.
I know we have had discussions about finding Provorov a reliable partner. But going to have to find someone to make it work with him. not interested in moving Hagg or Ghost up with him at all.

 

[Hurricane28]

Hagg-Ghost can be the second pairing for the next 10 years

 

[deadhead]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Hagg seems like the best fit with Ghost, and as he gets more experienced and the two work together, they may improve further as a pair.

Right now Provorov - MacDonald could be our best 'shut-down' pair as long as MacDonald keeps this up, though I'd wish he'd stop with the slapshots from the point that miss the net and fly back out. Whether MacDonald will keep up this level of play remains to be seen, but the last few games are the best he's looked as a Flyer.

Gudas and Sanheim is the shakiest pair right now, but Gudas seems to be getting his legs back and Sanheim is figuring it out, so there's a lot of upside between them.

There's something to be said for establishing some continuity.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

definitely. i know some thought Morin would be the perfect compliment to Ghost, but right now it would be hard to argue any of the other rookie defenseman would be a better option than Hagg as a partner for Ghost.

 

[Foggy14]

Him and Hagg had zero failed clears yesterday, and we have to hear about how Ghost is poor defensively.

If Ghost and Hagg were bad yesterday, I don't want them to be "good."

 

[Magua]

Also shows that Sanheim is by far the worst at exiting the D zone, failing almost half the time.

That was one game of microstats. He was a beast in the tracked version of it in the AHL. I think in general he could skate more pucks out instead of standing still and trying to be safe. But that will come. You can see it's still fast for him against the forechecking. He's an entry/exit machine when he figures it out though.

There are mitigating factors though to those stats. Half his ice time was spent with Patrick and his line, who got butchered. As you can see Gudas did equally as poor. It just was not a good game for them in that department. That only showed exits though, not entries. He could've graded fine there for all we know. And it didn't show how he did denying them to the opposition.

And yet interestingly enough, Ghost and Sanheim finished with the same CF% basically in similar minutes. Gudas led the team. And Sanheim was only behind his partner Gudas among d-men in scoring chances for % and high danger chance %. Hagg and Ghost were by no small margin the worst, despite their clean exits. Funny how that works sometimes in small sample, isn't it? But entry/exits are just one part of the game, and there are d-men who routinely perform mediocre there and yet don't get hurt by it. Gudas or Ekholm for example. Sloppy as Sanheim/Gudas were yesterday in exits, which I saw by the eye, they made it up elsewhere.

 

[deadhead]

The numbers say Gudas is playing well, but the eyes disagree, relative to last season.
I think he may have had "new baby" syndrome, and is just off to a slow start, he's looked better the last couple games, though it helps that Sanheim has settled down as well.

I think Hextall made the right choices, while you could make the case that Morin is as ready as Saheim and Hagg, he'd be a tougher fit this year, especially if Ghost wants to play on the left side, you don't take one of your best players and put them in a situation that may degrade their performance.

Morin fits best probably with Sanheim of the current group of D-man, but then you have Sanheim playing his off-side as a rookie. In the AHL he can play with Myers and Friedman, who are more natural fits with him (RH mobile D-men).

While this is a bit of a problem, it's a GOOD problem to have.

 

[Striiker]

Great 2 points, guys. 10 points after 8 games.
Second (in our division) PIT has 11pts but we have 1 game less.

I think that it's very good start for us.

Hasn't been an easy schedule either.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

In terms of goals given up per game, Flyers have the lowest in the Eastern Conference. Only 2.25 goals per game. The only team that has a better goals allowed per game are the Kings. They are above average as well for the Eastern Conference in terms of goal scoring.