2022 Offseason Discussion Thread

[Captain Awesome]

What is depressing is Nill will most likely be back and he has signaled his intentions. You don’t sign pavelski to a 1 year deal if you plan on rebuilding or retooling. He will sign 3rd/4th line grinders who can’t score to cheap contracts like last year and call it good. Probably bring Bowness back to make another run with this core.

Pretty much this. I'd love to speculate about how they could restructure the team to add more youth, but so long as Nill is here he is going to go for it again next year, except with a handicap of having to pay JRob and Oettinger real salaries. Even though I think some of the talent could be replaced internally, I just don't see them utilizing rookies to the fullest extent with the intention of developing them into impact players, or even productive middle 6 guys.

I was on the trade Klingberg ship at the beginning of the last offseason for a reason, it was to maximize the value of picks and things we could use for a retool. Instead, he didn't get traded at all, neither did Radulov, Pavelski, or Faksa. Nill has no intention of doing a rebuild/retool because he'll get fired if they miss the playoffs, presumably. If they had hired a new GM who had time and leash, maybe they're in a much better situation for next year at the expense of a first round exit that doesn't really matter in the long run.

 

[starsfan86]

I don't think the Stars need to bottom out and get a top-3 pick to become contenders, but if there is a year to suck and load up on first round picks, it is next year. I'd say upwards of the top-5 (at least the top-3) are looking like better prospects than Shane Wright with Bedard seeming to be a McDavid tier prospect.

From my viewings, Cameron Allen is the best defensive prospect to come through the OHL in a long time as well.

This. We would have to suffer a full year, bitching and moaning every game. But it would be worth it. Not sure Gaglardi will be ok with tanking though.

 

[Starry Knight]

It would suck to lose Hintz because team has two over 9m guys who cant crack 50 points in full season. Also if you look future in the most important position: Center. I can say there is so many guys who have banged points in canada junior leagues like Johnston and did not have anything to say in NHL, so he is not sure bet yet.

What Johnston has done as a draft +1 doesn't have many comparables. You could maybe point to Morgan Frost, but he's an undersized centre who's fairly one dimensional.

The best recent comparable for Wyatt Johnston's season that aligns with his play on both sides of the puck as a D+1 is Mitch Marner.

 

[Zapp]

If we're drafting a d-man in 2023 I want Gulyayev.

Kid is sick with the puck

 

[Starry Knight]

I don't mind the idea of trading him for a really good RD if you think someone like Johnston will come in and be ready next year. But there's too much parity and unpredictability to say a team won't be a contender. Even the favorites being knocked out right away isn't surprising. And the team that beat them winning it all isn't that surprising. A couple of offensive moves would probably make the team a contender. A bit more offense right now would have made them a contender now.

It would be nice to have a long-term plan over patching holes I guess.

Really I'm not disagreeing, I just think it's funny than the way people phrase things about contenders and (you're not saying this) people being shocked when anything happens team-wise in the NHL. It's like they never have watched or they just expect it to be like other leagues/sports that don't have so much parity.

Agree on all points. For the bolded, imagine Benn and Seguin (and Klingberg) aged like Tampas core instead of how they did. So many small factors based largely on luck that determine the course of a franchise.

 

[Troy McClure]

Pretty much this. I'd love to speculate about how they could restructure the team to add more youth, but so long as Nill is here he is going to go for it again next year, except with a handicap of having to pay JRob and Oettinger real salaries. Even though I think some of the talent could be replaced internally, I just don't see them utilizing rookies to the fullest extent with the intention of developing them into impact players, or even productive middle 6 guys.

I was on the trade Klingberg ship at the beginning of the last offseason for a reason, it was to maximize the value of picks and things we could use for a retool. Instead, he didn't get traded at all, neither did Radulov, Pavelski, or Faksa. Nill has no intention of doing a rebuild/retool because he'll get fired if they miss the playoffs, presumably. If they had hired a new GM who had time and leash, maybe they're in a much better situation for next year at the expense of a first round exit that doesn't really matter in the long run.

I'm not sure Gaglardi would let Nill or any new GM undergo any sort of teardown that sends messages to ticket buyers the team isn't all in.

 

[Dynamite Time]

Hintz isn’t going to be traded; Pavelski was signed for another year and Klingberg wasn’t moved at the deadline. Also Johnston just turned 19… 19 years old. He looks really good but he’s no McDavid and will probably not be a regular top 6 till 23-24.

Bring in Dellandrea and Damiani full time next season and move Faksa. If one the three kids grab a spot then awesome but again I don’t see any of them as a regular next season but wouldn’t mind being wrong.

A mix of Hintz, Robertson, Peterson, Dellandrea, Damiani, Gurianov along with vets Pavelski, Benn, Seguin, Namestnikov, Raffl, Glendening isn’t a horrible bunch of forwards for a new coach coming in that understands the game today and isn’t a dinosaur.

 

[Captain Awesome]

This. We would have to suffer a full year, bitching and moaning every game. But it would be worth it. Not sure Gaglardi will be ok with tanking though.

In all fairness, didn't we already do that this year?

I think that even if you stripped this mofo down to the bones, they're way too good to be in contention for a top 5 pick. NHL teams have gotten very good at bottoming out, I don't think we could. Maaaaaybe if we did the absolute extreme and traded Hintz, Pavelski, Lindell for futures before the season started. Then you're really down to Robertson, Oettinger, Heiskanen as your core, but it still provides a decent floor. Maybe you'd end up bottom 10 with a good shot at the lottery in that case.

Ironically if you shipped out pieces around the periphery, your Faksas, Glendenings, Gurianovs, etc. you might end up improving because they'll be replaced by Johnston, Damiani, Borque, Dellandrea, etc. It would look worse for like a month or two and then they'd improve and give the team some of that middle 6 punch they've needed for years.

 

[Captain Awesome]

I'm not sure Gaglardi would let Nill or any new GM undergo any sort of teardown that sends messages to ticket buyers the team isn't all in.

To be honest, their messaging around the team is so patronizing already , they might as well just make the moves and then send out the mouthpieces that are Dallas Stars media that this is just another move to improve the team through all the great drafting they've done. If local STHs still believe Benn and Seguin are the best players on the team, no worries, they aren't going anywhere anyway.

 

[starsfan86]

In all fairness, didn't we already do that this year?

I think that even if you stripped this mofo down to the bones, they're way too good to be in contention for a top 5 pick. NHL teams have gotten very good at bottoming out, I don't think we could. Maaaaaybe if we did the absolute extreme and traded Hintz, Pavelski, Lindell for futures before the season started. Then you're really down to Robertson, Oettinger, Heiskanen as your core, but it still provides a decent floor. Maybe you'd end up bottom 10 with a good shot at the lottery in that case.

Ironically if you shipped out pieces around the periphery, your Faksas, Glendenings, Gurianovs, etc. you might end up improving because they'll be replaced by Johnston, Damiani, Borque, Dellandrea, etc. It would look worse for like a month or two and then they'd improve and give the team some of that middle 6 punch they've needed for years.

We could have a long list of injuries and have a Montreal type season. Chances are slim but that would be ideal.

 

[The Tourist]

Hintz isn't going anywhere and I actually believe Robo needs Hintz more than the other way around. Robo looks really slow like last night when he doesn't have Hintz to flip the puck to. Robo is the master at playing a puck to space and letting Hintz attack it.

Robertson is fine once the offensive zone is established and the team is cycling. He is elite at that. But he desperately misses Hintz on his entries and attacking the blue line. Pavelski is the same way. They are just slow through the middle of the ice without Hintz. Dump and chase doesn't work when you're too slow to chase it.

 

[Captain Awesome]

@starsfan86 We could have a long list of injuries and have a Montreal type season. Chances are slim but that would be ideal.

That's true, but don't forget that on top of the injures they lost Kotkaniemi and Danault through FA and offersheet and Drouin was still on leave for a large part of the season IIRC. It was a hybrid approach of letting important players walk and having devastating injuries. Plus, there was the awful coaching until St. Louis got there. They really did it all to maximize how terrible they would be.

 

[starsfan86]

That's true, but don't forget that on top of the injures they lost Kotkaniemi and Danault through FA and offersheet and Drouin was still on leave for a large part of the season IIRC. It was a hybrid approach of letting important players walk and having devastating injuries. Plus, there was the awful coaching until St. Louis got there. They really did it all to maximize how terrible they would be.

Yeah it’s a very long shot. Bedard and the Russian will more than likely end up in Arizona or Seattle.

 

[WhoahNow]

RFAs:
Re-Signed: Gleason, Karlstrom, Oettinger, Robertson, Shea, Studenic, Tufte (Maybe Gleason & Shea don't get signed, but get AHL deals)
No Offer: Caamano, Kawaguchi, Lipanov, Point
Trade: Gurianov

UFAs:
Re-Signed: Namestnikov, Raffl, Wedgewood (I would actually probably go for Eric Comrie instead of Wedgewood, but wouldn't hate Wedgewood coming back)
No Offer: Cecconi, Comeau, Holtby, Klingberg, L'Esperance, Petrovic, Radulov, Sekera,

In an ideal scenario for me Stars could move on from: Benn, Seguin, Suter, Faksa, Gurianov, Khudobin. Would be really hard move any of them, but worth trying.


Robertson-Hintz-Pavelski
Benn-Seguin-Namestnikov
Peterson-Johnston-Raffl
Glendening-Faksa-Dellandrea
Need Benn/Seguin traded ideally, its going to be so hard to upgrade the offence with their bloated contracts and poor production.


Lindell-Heiskanen
Harley-Hakanpaa
Suter-Hanley
Need a top 4 RHD, maybe someone like Hronek from DET

Oettinger
Wedgewood

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Seems like I posted this earlier, but here goes (sorry for repitition)

A few things I don't get:

Trade Hintz (when scoring forwards are an areas of weakness) for a right hand D, an area of relative strength makes little sense.

A lot of worry about a bottom six makeup when it is a relative strength, and there are lots of bodies to put into those spots. Benn is a good base for a third line, albeit, overpaid. The entire bottom six seems fine.

Trade a lot of mid production players, just because? I am pretty sure the guys we replace them with won't be a lot better, although Raffle and Glendenning were improvements over the last year of Cogs and Comeau.

Trade a point per game FW because he is holding us back?

And first of all, little mention of what this team really needs, i.e., build a true scoring second line, other than waxing poetic about how three teenagers are going to magically beat the odds and combine to score 100 goals as a line. IMHO, Seguin, with 24 goals makes a nice base for a second line, albeit, overpaid. Maybe one rookie added to that. Then, find someone who can score via some other means, trade or UFA. It would probably mean trading one of our great forward prospects to get someone who can score now.

It just isn't practical to "move on" from a lot of players typically mentioned here. For every one we ship out, we need to bring in two, the replacement and an improvement somewhere else. They could probably elevate with just 2-3 of the right moves over each of the next 2-3 years, without blowing up the team, like Gainey did over a few years in the 90s.

 

[Starry Knight]

Seems like I posted this earlier, but here goes (sorry for repitition)

A few things I don't get:

Trade Hintz (when scoring forwards are an areas of weakness) for a right hand D, an area of relative strength makes little sense.

A lot of worry about a bottom six makeup when it is a relative strength, and there are lots of bodies to put into those spots. Benn is a good base for a third line, albeit, overpaid. The entire bottom six seems fine.

Trade a lot of mid production players, just because? I am pretty sure the guys we replace them with won't be a lot better, although Raffle and Glendenning were improvements over the last year of Cogs and Comeau.

Trade a point per game FW because he is holding us back?

And first of all, little mention of what this team really needs, i.e., build a true scoring second line, other than waxing poetic about how three teenagers are going to magically beat the odds and combine to score 100 goals as a line. IMHO, Seguin, with 24 goals makes a nice base for a second line, albeit, overpaid. Maybe one rookie added to that. Then, find someone who can score via some other means, trade or UFA. It would probably mean trading one of our great forward prospects to get someone who can score now.

It just isn't practical to "move on" from a lot of players typically mentioned here. For every one we ship out, we need to bring in two, the replacement and an improvement somewhere else. They could probably elevate with just 2-3 of the right moves over each of the next 2-3 years, without blowing up the team, like Gainey did over a few years in the 90s.

Scoring is a weakness today, but isn't going to be a weakness in the coming years. The Stars have drafted nothing but talented forwards who will make impacts in their early 20s. The sense of trading Hintz for a D is that Hintz is that his peak might have been this season/last season, and signing him to a long-term contract (like Benn and Seguin) could leave this team once again paying a player for their past performance, not their future performance.

RHD is also not an organizational strength. Hakanpaa is the only one in the organization with a meaningful NHL future.

 

[Zapp]

Scoring is a weakness today, but isn't going to be a weakness in the coming years. The Stars have drafted nothing but talented forwards who will make impacts in their early 20s. The sense of trading Hintz for a D is that Hintz is that his peak might have been this season/last season, and signing him to a long-term contract (like Benn and Seguin) could leave this team once again paying a player for their past performance, not their future performance.

RHD is also not an organizational strength. Hakanpaa is the only one in the organization with a meaningful NHL future.

Ok and neither is C right now for us. Johnston, Stankoven, and Bourque haven’t played a single game in the NHL. Not to mention Johnston needs to put on muscle if he plans to be a 1C dealing with the oppositions best defensive coverage.


This trading Hintz shit is psychotic. You wanna trade 1 of the 2 offensive players that dragged this god awful team on its back into the playoffs? For a theoretical RHD that we have no idea is even available? When you know depth scoring is an issue?

If we’re going to entertain this goofy ass conversation anymore, then I propose we trade the winger who just got completely shut down in the 1st round because of his sub-par skating.

Hintz is better than Robertson defensively, created more opportunities on offense against Calgary, and is a 1c that is far more valuable than a top line LW.

How anyone here can say with a degree of certainty that we’ve seen peak Hintz when he’s continually elevated his game year after year, under one of the most offensive smothering systems we’ve ever seen is f***ing absurd.

Yesterday broke some of you.

 

[Kcb12345]

Do NOT trade Hintz. At least not yet. I don't wanna give him a big contract either but trading him this offseason would be the dumbest thing the team could do, especially given his super cheap contract he's on.

All I care about:

Bring back Namestnikov & maybe Raffl on cheap deals as your veteran depth guys to go along with Glendening.
Trade Gurianov and Faksa
Sign Wedgewood to a nice cheap deal
Bye bye to all other UFAs
Dellandrea + Johnston should be on the NHL roster. Damiani & Bourque should get games this season too. Peterson should be a middle 6 lock.

Robertson-Hintz-Pavelski
Peterson/Rookie-Johnston-Seguin
Benn-Dellandrea-Namestnikov
Rookie/Peterson - Glendening - Raffl
Studenic/Kiviranta

Not sure what to do with the bottom line really. For rookie, I mean one of Damiani or Bourque most likely, but i also dont want them stuck with Glendening & Raffl. Idk what RHD to go after, and I'd love to see Suter bought out but it won't happen.

 

[hairylikebear]

This trading Hintz shit is psychotic.

I think you're assuming people want to trade Hintz just for the sake of it, but the vibe I get is people are expressing an openness to the idea of trading him, which is fine. For the right offer anyone is tradable. The long term concerns about Hintz are completely valid. IMO the odds that an offer for Hintz comes along that improves the way the team is positioned is unlikely. The same issues that cause fans to hesitate to commit are the ones that other GMs will use to justify low-ball offers.

 

[eartotheground]

yeah, i don't want to get locked into another player that will be oft-injured and rapidly declining. roope will be great (when he's available) for another 2-44 years. that's probably about it. and bear in mind, he's great, not elite.

remember when loui e was going to be a pillar for the next 15 years?

 

[Rory]

I think you're assuming people want to trade Hintz just for the sake of it, but the vibe I get is people are expressing an openness to the idea of trading him, which is fine. For the right offer anyone is tradable. The long term concerns about Hintz are completely valid. IMO the odds that an offer for Hintz comes along that improves the way the team is positioned is unlikely. The same issues that cause fans to hesitate to commit are the ones that other GMs will use to justify low-ball offers.

Spot on. I’m open to trading him if you can get something good back as you can’t depend on him to stay healthy. I think it’s a bad idea to trading though especially for defense. I have no idea who Hintz would return that would make it worth trading him. He would have to be part of a package to upgrade what he provides and I just can’t see it happening.

 

[Arkham32]

Hintz isn’t going to be traded; Pavelski was signed for another year and Klingberg wasn’t moved at the deadline. Also Johnston just turned 19… 19 years old. He looks really good but he’s no McDavid and will probably not be a regular top 6 till 23-24.

But Robertson was top 6 at 21... and Johnston looks much better at age 19 then Robertson was.

 

[Rory]

I think this team can move Seguin. It will cost something but not all our prospect and picks. It’s either that or hope a new coach can get a duchene type turnaround from him. Seguin is over paid but it’s not like he is worthless.

 

[BG44]

The problem with the conversation about trading Hintz is the same problem with the conversation about trading Benn and Seguin. The people that are having it are speaking theoretically rather than actually providing any example that is realistic.

Theoretically, it's plausible that Benn and Seguin could be attractive to a team with money retained if another contract is coming back. That conversation totally ignored the reality of a NMC and the tax situation in Texas. Millions of dollars is on the line for each player. They're not simply going to waive for a contender unless it's close to the end of the contract. It's going to need to be a contender that also probably doesn't have a nightmare tax situation. Just take Seguin's hometown Toronto. Seguin is due $43.3 million in the next 5 years. Seguin would lose $7 million by playing for Toronto those 5 years. OK ... so some obvious options emerge in Tampa, Florida, and Vegas. In what world does Florida take Benn or Seguin at 50%? They don't. Tampa? Not even close.

I hate to say this because people will start running with it, but I'm honestly sick of just hearing illogical, theories with no basis in reality. Vegas at least has some basis in reality with William Karlsson potentially. I would argue that despite the money being even, it's hardly a slam dunk either Seguin or Benn would automatically waive. That's not even close to a given and shuts it down completely, but it's at least based in some possible reality.

If I'm Dallas, I don't even entertain the idea of Benn for Karlsson ... why are you making the cap situation worse for 2 extra years? I don't know that Karlsson is an improvement over Seguin. When you factor in you'd be retaining and likely getting zero cap savings ... I think it's a fairly pointless trade. Even Vegas doesn't make a ton of sense.

RE: Hintz ... it's all fine and well to be theoretical and point to the Seth Jones trade of the past. Great ... who is the mythical RD? There have been some interesting points for trading Hintz as well as not trading Hintz. That seems to have been debated to death in about 48 hours or so. If you want to have an actual discussion about, who is the player coming back? I've seen Noah Dobson thrown out, but why exactly are the Islanders interested in this trade? That's their #1 defender and they have a top center, albeit coming off a tough year. Still ... there's not a great deal of thought obviously been put into considering why the Islanders would trade their #1 defender with no replacement or any players in the pipeline.

 

[eartotheground]

The problem with the conversation about trading Hintz is the same problem with the conversation about trading Benn and Seguin. The people that are having it are speaking theoretically rather than actually providing any example that is realistic.

Theoretically, it's plausible that Benn and Seguin could be attractive to a team with money retained if another contract is coming back. That conversation totally ignored the reality of a NMC and the tax situation in Texas. Millions of dollars is on the line for each player. They're not simply going to waive for a contender unless it's close to the end of the contract. It's going to need to be a contender that also probably doesn't have a nightmare tax situation. Just take Seguin's hometown Toronto. Seguin is due $43.3 million in the next 5 years. Seguin would lose $7 million by playing for Toronto those 5 years. OK ... so some obvious options emerge in Tampa, Florida, and Vegas. In what world does Florida take Benn or Seguin at 50%? They don't. Tampa? Not even close.

I hate to say this because people will start running with it, but I'm honestly sick of just hearing illogical, theories with no basis in reality. Vegas at least has some basis in reality with William Karlsson potentially. I would argue that despite the money being even, it's hardly a slam dunk either Seguin or Benn would automatically waive. That's not even close to a given and shuts it down completely, but it's at least based in some possible reality.

If I'm Dallas, I don't even entertain the idea of Benn for Karlsson ... why are you making the cap situation worse for 2 extra years? I don't know that Karlsson is an improvement over Seguin. When you factor in you'd be retaining and likely getting zero cap savings ... I think it's a fairly pointless trade. Even Vegas doesn't make a ton of sense.

RE: Hintz ... it's all fine and well to be theoretical and point to the Seth Jones trade of the past. Great ... who is the mythical RD? There have been some interesting points for trading Hintz as well as not trading Hintz. That seems to have been debated to death in about 48 hours or so. If you want to have an actual discussion about, who is the player coming back? I've seen Noah Dobson thrown out, but why exactly are the Islanders interested in this trade? That's their #1 defender and they have a top center, albeit coming off a tough year. Still ... there's not a great deal of thought obviously been put into considering why the Islanders would trade their #1 defender with no replacement or any players in the pipeline.

i don't know the league well enough to declare with certainty that there's a partner out there that makes sense to move hintz. my thought is that they should definitely be exploring the possibility. i'm not even sold that it has to be RHD coming back, i don't think you need to make it so limiting. find what makes sense value wise (contract, age, skill, potential, position) and work from there.
all i know is there seems to be a greater than zero chance that we're all here 5 years from now bitching about the shitty contract nill handed out to roope and how he clearly should have known better.