2018 HFAvs Mock offseason game UFA open)

[Vancouver Canucks]

Count me in, please, if there's a spot.

 

[UncleRisto]

Why I am IN:

Insider PM's coming through.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Just need 4 more people. I'd really like to get the team selection started by Monday so hopefully we can fill the last spaces.

 

[forsbergavs32]

@Retinalz is in. Use that post in the other thread for your roster.

3 to go

 

[Wayneherb]

I could join if it's possible !

 

[cody275]

So only a couple spots left before team selection, anyone else have any preference / ideas regarding the approach we should take to UFA before people start picking teams?

 

[forsbergavs32]

So only a couple spots left before team selection, anyone else have any preference / ideas regarding the approach we should take to UFA before people start picking teams?

I think im going to go with 1 UFA can be signed before the UFA period but it must be a massive overpayment to be approved.

 

[AslanRH]

What if we allow 1 UFA signing but:
- must be an 8 year contract
- That UFA will be allowed to be available for "sign and trade" scenario as long as the trade is made within a couple days of signing (player does not have to be traded of course to be signed)
-After the couple days or if traded that player cannot be traded again

 

[forsbergavs32]

What if we allow 1 UFA signing but:
- must be an 8 year contract
- That UFA will be allowed to be available for "sign and trade" scenario as long as the trade is made within a couple days of signing (player does not have to be traded of course to be signed)
-After the couple days or if traded that player cannot be traded again

I'm fine with that, though I think it still needs to be more than what the player would get on the market.

In a sign and trade scenario, the signing team would be allowed to go over the cap if the amount puts the over the cap (ex. Stastny on the jets), but a trade needs to be agreed on before asking about re-signing.

 

[AslanRH]

I'm fine with that, though I think it still needs to be more than what the player would get on the market.

In a sign and trade scenario, the signing team would be allowed to go over the cap if the amount puts the over the cap (ex. Stastny on the jets), but a trade needs to be agreed on before asking about re-signing.

My thought is that there is only a handful of players worth taking off the market early and I do think a player like Tavares (if he intends to leave the Isles) would agree to that 8th year if only to improve the trade return for the team he has grown up in.

 

[forsbergavs32]

My thought is that there is only a handful of players worth taking off the market early and I do think a player like Tavares (if he intends to leave the Isles) would agree to that 8th year if only to improve the trade return for the team he has grown up in.

Makes sense as long as it's a sign and trade

Also want to see if a couple people want to take on a 2nd team so we can get going. As usual it would be one of the last 2 teams remaining and no trades between your 2 teams.

 

[cody275]

My thought is that there is only a handful of players worth taking off the market early and I do think a player like Tavares (if he intends to leave the Isles) would agree to that 8th year if only to improve the trade return for the team he has grown up in.

This concept confuses me, it doesn't make sense in hockey. I understand the presence of sign and trades exist within other sports, but the value of a player tends to not be dependent on a contract within hockey. Trades themselves may be contingent on term (Turris for example), but the value given was for the player not the contract. The trade simply wasn't being made for a rental.

Players have no incentive (especially less than a month away from free agency when there are no games to cause injury) to sign a contract to get traded for a legitimate return that weakens the team they want to go to. Maybe mid-season of their last year it makes some sense (long term contract prior to a playoff run on a contender) but the offseason? I don't really see it.

The last actual sign and trade in the NHL was what? Hossa over a decade ago?

In the offseason any player is better off taking a year less (either for more/less money) and have the franchise they want to go with still have the assets to improve other aspects.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

If there are not enough gms we can do some reverse expansion draft and pillage the last two teams!

 

[forsbergavs32]

If there are not enough gms we can do some reverse expansion draft and pillage the last two teams!

I mentioned it earlier, didn't get much response on it.

As far as the UFA thing, I can see where Aslan is coming from. Sign and trades in the traditional sense dont happen but theres usually an extension in place from negotiations with the new team. I think that's kind of how we are running it, a signing is brought to us after a trade has been agreed upon.

 

[lonelybadger]

Pillaging the remaining 2 teams sounds good to me!

 

[cody275]

I mentioned it earlier, didn't get much response on it.

As far as the UFA thing, I can see where Aslan is coming from. Sign and trades in the traditional sense dont happen but theres usually an extension in place from negotiations with the new team. I think that's kind of how we are running it, a signing is brought to us after a trade has been agreed upon.

My issue here is that it simply doesn't happen in the NHL (especially in the offseason)

2009: Florida trades UFA Bouwmeester for UFA Leopold + 3rd (Both teams sign the respective UFA, Leopold after free agency starts)
2010: Phoenix trades prospect Jared Staal to Carolina for a 5th (Re-signs, only plays 2 games in the NHL)
2010: Nashville Trades UFA Hamhuis + conditional pick to the flyers for Parent. Flyers can't sign him, so they trade him to Pittsburgh for a 2011 3rd, he walks from Pittsburgh too and signs in Vancouver.
2011: Montreal trades UFA James Wisniewski to Columbus for a conditional 2012 7th (Wiz re-signs in Columbus for 6 years, the pick gets upgraded to a 5th)
2012: Detroit trades UFA Stuart for Andrew Murray + conditional 7th (Stuart re-signs a week later)
2013: Ottawa trades UFA Gonchar to Dallas for a conditional 6th round pick (Gonchar signs with Dallas the next day)
2014: Capitals trade UFA Halak to Isles for a 4th (Takes a month for Isles to sign a contract with him)
2015: Boston trades UFA Soderberg to the Avs for a 2016 6th round pick (Avs sign him the next day)
2015: Sharks trade UFA Niemi to Dallas for a 7th (Dallas signs a couple days later)


Historically, regardless of whether there is a signing UFA rights have next to no value. If there are outright sign and trades, I just feel that there will be some belief that there should be a legitimate return which in itself is unrealistic based on how the NHL functions.

(I might have missed some, the article I looked at was prior to 2016 Free Agency. I don't recall any in the past 3-4 years that would counter the trend though)

 

[forsbergavs32]

Well at this point we need to come to an agreement on this because IMO if teams can just re-sign all their big names then that makes UFA boring for everyone. Otherwise ill probably just go back to all UFAs go to Free Agency

Also I think we're gonna just do a dispersal draft for the 2 remaining teams. Dispersal order will be reverse team selection order, I'll get the team selection order done tonight and we can begin first thing tomorrow.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I do think we should be able to sign some UFAs.


Maybe something like 2 UFAs signed maximum per team. We could also come up with a list of guys who almost definitely are going to UFA this summer, and exclude those players from being allowed to be signed.


For example I think it's highly likely Stastny, Tavares, JVR, Nash, Green, Jack Johnson, etc. etc. are going to test Free Agency. So we make a rule that all those guys are excluded from being signed before free agency.


Another rule could be that if you're going to re-sign your own UFA the new contract has to be bigger then the old contract as well? So for example if Boston GM wanted to sign Rick Nash, he'd have to offer him at least 7.9M a season to get him to sign. Or Mike Green in Detroit would require at least 6.1M to sign.


Dunno, just tossing out ideas. I dont entirely think its fair to just force every free agent into free agency. Cause a guy like Evander Kane seems to be fitting quite well in San Jose and I'd say probably will re-sign with them.

 

[AslanRH]

My issue here is that it simply doesn't happen in the NHL (especially in the offseason)

[snip]

Historically, regardless of whether there is a signing UFA rights have next to no value. If there are outright sign and trades, I just feel that there will be some belief that there should be a legitimate return which in itself is unrealistic based on how the NHL functions.

(I might have missed some, the article I looked at was prior to 2016 Free Agency. I don't recall any in the past 3-4 years that would counter the trend though)

I just think it adds an element to the game if we are going to pull players off the UFA market. UFA is not as fun if all the top guys are signed.

If I am the Islanders, I will max out Tavares or possibly even the Caps with Carlson, if I have to rather than lose him for nothing. If I can sign and trade, I may be able to work out a superb franchise changing deal.​

This Mock offseason stuff isn't exactly known for sticking to reality based NHL offseasons anyway.

If I had to choose I would do either no UFA signings or 1 per team, but with the following stipulations are met
- player has a reason to not want to test the market
- close to market value contract or above
- window of 2 days (or say before the draft begins) to trade player.
- after draft begins or after player is traded, that player may not be traded again

The final decision regarding the first 2 stipulations would be decided by the Admins

 

[cody275]

snip

If I had to choose I would do either no UFA signings or 1 per team, but with the following stipulations are met
- player has a reason to not want to test the market
- close to market value contract or above
- window of 2 days (or say before the draft begins) to trade player.
- after draft begins or after player is traded, that player may not be traded again

The final decision regarding the first 2 stipulations would be decided by the Admins

I think these stipulations are pretty good.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'd even consider adding a stipulation on the number of offers you can make to UFA's (for re-signing). To 1) Possibly get more players to UFA and 2) So there are hopefully less lowball offers that need to be dealt with (since you can't work your way up with offers)

 

[forsbergavs32]

I kinda like the idea of admins coming up with a list of guys who will test UFA (maybe we can limit it like 10 guys).

 

[cody275]

Also, in regards to the remaining 2 teams, have we tried the Mock Draft section of the site? I could (or if someone else wanted to) try messaging some people there to see if we can fill 2 spots, they're usually pretty good for filling into mock games

 

[UncleRisto]

Also, in regards to the remaining 2 teams, have we tried the Mock Draft section of the site? I could (or if someone else wanted to) try messaging some people there to see if we can fill 2 spots, they're usually pretty good for filling into mock games

I could ask there too, but the GM Games section already fills half of this game.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Updated the rules for UFA and Dispersal. I decided on dispersal unless we get a couple last minute entries.

Also since we are doing dispersal I was thinking about raising the cap from 80m to 85m

 

[UncleRisto]

That's "draft picks" as in previous draft picks, right?

I shot a few more PM's. We'll see if we can make it to at least just one dispersed team.

Definitely make sure it's Minnesota.