2017 NHL Draft Part III (June 23-24)

[njx9]

Put another way would you have wanted Anthony Mantha or what Riley Sheahan did a couple years ago.

[...]

And hell... right now on your team. Do you want Dylan Larkin or David Pastrnak?

That's a 2C vs a 1W comparison. I'd probably take Pasta over D-Boss.

It's laughable that you're calling Sheahan or Larkin a 2C.

You get elite or star talent where you can get it. If the 1W has a chance at being a star and the 2C has no prayer (a la Sheahan in his draft year), you go with the wing. If it is remotely close in their ceilings, you go center.

There is a point at which need is subordinate to best available.

And the question was a 65 point winger, not a star or an elite winger. Sheahan was, again, NEVER a 2C in anything but name. It's absurd to suggest he was or was ever on track to be one.

At some point, you have to recognize that you're both stocked with Ws, and you excel at finding them late, and draft for actual need even if there's a *slight* drop in total production. Especially because your Ws are simply not tradeable for the Cs and Ds you've failed at drafting for the last two decades.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Couldn't disagree more.
I went from 175LB to 205LB in my senior year of high school alone (without growing taller). And I was a slim kid at 6'3".
I wasn't even actively trying to put on weight or muscle either to compete in professional hockey.
If the kid still has a baby face I wouldn't worry about it too much. If he can already grow a beard in a week... I might be worried about his ability to mature and add weight.

I would take a look at his older brother.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I would take a look at his older brother.

How much did he grow after being drafted?

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Anyone see Detroit trading up or down?

 

[Winger98]

Anyone see Detroit trading up or down?

If they really like a couple of guys and they're gone, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we dealt down. I'd be shocked if we moved up, though. They'd have to be much higher on someone than I think any of us are.

 

[BinCookin]

Anyone see Detroit trading up or down?

really hard to know. If they trade up or down i expect it would be a max of 1-2 spots either direction to try and get someone in particular.

I.e. they are targetting someone who "should fall" 7-11th.

I think trading down lower than that would be crazy, or trying to move above 7th would be too costly.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Anyone see Detroit trading up or down?

My prediction is they trade down and draft a defenseman we totally did not see them drafting. I have no way to justify it, but I think Vaakanainen is somebody they'd be really interested in. Excellent mobility, decent enough size, high hockey sense, defensively sound, very good puckmover with excellent passing skills. Not a high end offensive guy (doesn't have the shooting ability at this point), but he really sounds like the kind of defenseman Detroit (and especially Ken Holland) loves. He would be a great compliment to a Hronek or a Saarijarvi, and maybe a solid supporting piece for a bigger upside defenseman next year.

If Necas isn't there, I could see them doing this. I know everyone would hate it, but Vaakanainen is totally their type of guy.

 

[Reddwit]

God, another off-season, another year where the rumor mill is just chugging out GMs' demands for Cs snd PMDs. There is zero reason to be drafting goalies or wingers unless they look like they will ****ing hit it out of the park and are the total package. Everyone wants centers. If we had a surplus of centers instead of a surplus of wingers right now, we'd have the upperhand across the board. On that note, draft your Cs and Ds to no end.

 

[Reddwit]

My prediction is they trade down and draft a defenseman we totally did not see them drafting. I have no way to justify it, but I think Vaakanainen is somebody they'd be really interested in. Excellent mobility, decent enough size, high hockey sense, defensively sound, very good puckmover with excellent passing skills. Not a high end offensive guy, but he really sounds like the kind of defenseman Detroit (and especially Ken Holland) loves. He would be a great compliment to a Hronek or a Saarijarvi, and maybe a solid supporting piece for a bigger upside defenseman next year.

If Necas isn't there, I could see them doing this. I know everyone would hate it, but Vaakanainen is totally their type of guy.

God, I hope not. They touted both Dekeyser and Ericsson as mobile guys who could move the puck. Apparently, they don't account for moving the puck WELL.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

God, I hope not. They touted both Dekeyser and Ericsson as mobile guys who could move the puck. Apparently, they don't account for moving the puck WELL.

It's interesting to me, because hockey people seem to be really vague when they talk about "moving the puck." Like you could have a guy who makes laser breakout passes and then some other guy who is an excellent skater but just takes it to the offensive blue line and dumps it into the corner, and different people could call both of those guys good puckmovers.

Anyway, my understanding is Vaakanainen is capable of both, while DeKeyser is pretty much exclusively the latter. It should mean that Vaakanainen is capable of becoming the guy we hoped DeKeyser would develop into.

Then again, I think Ken Holland for years had pretty low standards for puck movement from his defense, and now it shows. Hopefully he's putting more emphasis on that now, and hopefully the organization as a whole has shifted priorities to match. Because he really did, at one point, think the Wings D group was fine in that department. We have no real reason to trust his judgment on this one.

 

[Go Wings]

Put another way would you have wanted Anthony Mantha or what Riley Sheahan did a couple years ago.

I get that centers have more value than wings, but an upper end 1W does more for you than a 2C. Give me the shot at an elite player and I backfill with a guy who fits my system elsewhere.

The Wings have a bunch of wingers, but how many truly have bona-fide star potential on the top line? They have Mantha. Most every other guy they have can play on a top line, but are optimally 2nd line guys. Tatar and Nyquist are more 1.5W guys.

And hell... right now on your team. Do you want Dylan Larkin or David Pastrnak?

That's a 2C vs a 1W comparison. I'd probably take Pasta over D-Boss.

First of all I never wanted Sheahan I thought it was a terribly pick and wanted Kuznetsov but what do I know.

Second who in this draft is a bonafide first line winger?

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Anyone see Detroit trading up or down?

I could see us trading our 2nd ++ for a late first - the opposite of what we normally do.

 

[WingNut]

God, another off-season, another year where the rumor mill is just chugging out GMs' demands for Cs snd PMDs. There is zero reason to be drafting goalies or wingers unless they look like they will ****ing hit it out of the park and are the total package. Everyone wants centers. If we had a surplus of centers instead of a surplus of wingers right now, we'd have the upperhand across the board. On that note, draft your Cs and Ds to no end.

I could not agree more. I would draft D over C at this point but in rds 1-3 IMO it should be all D and C's. Grab wingers later.

 

[Henkka]

I hope for

1st - Necas
2nd - Ikonen
3rd and so on: Defencemen (hopefully Eemeli Räsänen is one)

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

How much did he grow after being drafted?

about 20 lbs

 

[snailderby]

If by some miracle, Cody Glass or Miro Heiskanen are still available at #9, I'd jump at the opportunity to take one of those players.

Otherwise, my preference would be to take Cale Makar, Elias Petterson, Matin Necas, or Lias Andersson, in that order.

I'd also be happy with Nick Suzuki, Juuso Valimaki, or Cal Foote, but only if all the players listed above are already taken.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Third Round is complete for the draft I told you about earlier, figured I would share it with you guys/gals.

Putting the first two rounds as a reminder.

#9.) Martin Necas
#38.) Pierre-Olivier Joseph
#71.) Adam Ruzicka
#79.) Ronald "Scooter" Brickey
#83.) Logan Cockerill
#88.) Dmitri Samorukov

Brickey and Cockerill probably could have been waited on maybe a little but I like them and went for it. I don't think Cockerill is a seventh round draft pick at all despite being smaller like the Oilers draft posted on here. Honestly really happy with that, not sure if we will keep going but I have some players in mind for the fourth and fifth round that I am still pretty high on.

 

[Frk It]

Third Round is complete for the draft I told you about earlier, figured I would share it with you guys/gals.

Putting the first two rounds as a reminder.

#9.) Martin Necas
#38.) Pierre-Olivier Joseph
#71.) Adam Ruzicka
#79.) Ronald "Scooter" Brickey
#83.) Logan Cockerill
#88.) Dmitri Samorukov

Brickey and Cockerill probably could have been waited on maybe a little but I like them and went for it. I don't think Cockerill is a seventh round draft pick at all despite being smaller like the Oilers draft posted on here. Honestly really happy with that, not sure if we will keep going but I have some players in mind for the fourth and fifth round that I am still pretty high on.

I like it, although I'd rather go with someone like Pastujov if we were going with a USNTP winger in that range. Plus he's a Michigan commit. Or maybe that's why you passed

But if we come out of this with Necas and Joseph with our first 2 picks, really doesn't matter what we do from there to me.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I like it, although I'd rather go with someone like Pastujov if we were going with a USNTP winger in that range. Plus he's a Michigan commit. Or maybe that's why you passed

But if we come out of this with Necas and Joseph with our first 2 picks, really doesn't matter what we do from there to me.

Cockerill is a smaller player, but I think he has an elite first step and high end gear. Really high hockey IQ and I think with time at BU he can put on the appropriate lower body strength to survive the NHL. He is responsible defensively and can PK a bit. Smart guys that can skate like him even while that short intrigue me especially with him being a winger and not a D or C where I think the size is a bigger factor at the NHL level.

For me he is a risk/reward kind of pick, which I did a lot of in the third round. Guys that I like certain elements of their game a ton and think if things break right we have a really good player there.

I have no real problem on the U of M hockey front. I am not real high on the Pastujov brothers. I mean I wish they didn't go there but over the years I have liked quite a few of their players. Jack Johnson, Jacob Trouba, Larkin, Glendening and so on are guys I have always liked. I think with hockey it is because of this I start evaluating them before they put on those ugly colors and start playing for them. In football and basketball I find out about them then and have a bigger dislike I guess. Quite frankly until MSU gets their act in order there isn't much to discuss anyway on the hockey front they have been irrelevant for a while now. I like the new hire, hopefully MSU hockey bounces back and we have the big two having bigger showdowns again like it was for the first couple decades of my life. I miss that game meaning a lot more and having big NHL talent on both sides. That a player like Cockerill is leaving the state shows where their program is in my opinion.

 

[Frk It]

Cockerill is a smaller player, but I think he has an elite first step and high end gear. Really high hockey IQ and I think with time at BU he can put on the appropriate lower body strength to survive the NHL. He is responsible defensively and can PK a bit. Smart guys that can skate like him even while that short intrigue me especially with him being a winger and not a D or C where I think the size is a bigger factor at the NHL level.

For me he is a risk/reward kind of pick, which I did a lot of in the third round. Guys that I like certain elements of their game a ton and think if things break right we have a really good player there.

I have no real problem on the U of M hockey front. I am not real high on the Pastujov brothers. I mean I wish they didn't go there but over the years I have liked quite a few of their players. Jack Johnson, Jacob Trouba, Larkin, Glendening and so on are guys I have always liked. I think with hockey it is because of this I start evaluating them before they put on those ugly colors and start playing for them. In football and basketball I find out about them then and have a bigger dislike I guess. Quite frankly until MSU gets their act in order there isn't much to discuss anyway on the hockey front they have been irrelevant for a while now. I like the new hire, hopefully MSU hockey bounces back and we have the big two having bigger showdowns again like it was for the first couple decades of my life. I miss that game meaning a lot more and having big NHL talent on both sides. That a player like Cockerill is leaving the state shows where there program is in my opinion.

Ha, that was purely a joke, it's all good. I think he's a bit underrated in this draft, and better than his brother. But he's lost a lot of time to injuries. Thought he was really impressive at the WJC, along with Gildon.

I like Tortora for some of those reasons you like Cockerill, plus he's from my hometown.

 

[Martinez]

Hot take. Trade back, take oettinger. -not serious

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Hot take. Trade back, take oettinger. -not serious

Goalies are a crap-shoot and I don't think we need to take one high, but I do think he is going to be a good one.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Anyone see Detroit trading up or down?

Only if players like Pettersson, Glass, Necas, Liljegren and or Makar were all off the board and that wont happen with all 5 and then trade down with Winnipeg at #13 and take Juuso Valimaki and get an extra 2nd or something like that.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Hot take. Trade back, take oettinger. -not serious

Oettinger will probably go late 1st round in the high 20's could see either the Hawks or Sens drafting him. So unless Holland deals Green for a late 20 i doubt we would get Oettinger. I like the comparison to Bishop and think that Oettinger could be a good one.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Cockerill is a smaller player, but I think he has an elite first step and high end gear. Really high hockey IQ and I think with time at BU he can put on the appropriate lower body strength to survive the NHL. He is responsible defensively and can PK a bit. Smart guys that can skate like him even while that short intrigue me especially with him being a winger and not a D or C where I think the size is a bigger factor at the NHL level.

For me he is a risk/reward kind of pick, which I did a lot of in the third round. Guys that I like certain elements of their game a ton and think if things break right we have a really good player there.

I have no real problem on the U of M hockey front. I am not real high on the Pastujov brothers. I mean I wish they didn't go there but over the years I have liked quite a few of their players. Jack Johnson, Jacob Trouba, Larkin, Glendening and so on are guys I have always liked. I think with hockey it is because of this I start evaluating them before they put on those ugly colors and start playing for them. In football and basketball I find out about them then and have a bigger dislike I guess. Quite frankly until MSU gets their act in order there isn't much to discuss anyway on the hockey front they have been irrelevant for a while now. I like the new hire, hopefully MSU hockey bounces back and we have the big two having bigger showdowns again like it was for the first couple decades of my life. I miss that game meaning a lot more and having big NHL talent on both sides. That a player like Cockerill is leaving the state shows where their program is in my opinion.

I don't necessarily think you are wrong to like Cockerill and I do think there is room in today's game for him, but I wouldn't take him that early. I like a lot of the other guys you landed on though.