Speculation: 2017 - 2018 Roster Discussion Part 3

[Jakey53]

C'mon fellas, this team this year is completely different than last year's team. This team this season has dominated teams in stretches, last year's team would win games, but win them ugly. I know some people really liked the previous coach, but c'mon, we've been trending in the right direction after the 20 -game mark and that is to be commended. The team is looking better and better. If we could catch a little luck w/the lottery and Strome establishes himself then we've really got something.

Of course this team is completely different, as it should, and next year will be completely different than this year.We added better talent and the kids are gaining more and more experience and confidence. Over all, this year has been a big disappointment and saying anything less is wrong. Everyone has to take blame, from AB all the way down to the players. This team should be sniffing around for a playoff spot, not competing for last spot. Next year we have to make the playoffs and anything less is unacceptable. We have to up our expectations big time, not expecting to finish around the bottom of the league, and if we don't achieve the playoffs next year, heads better role. We are in year four of the rebuild, time for the playoffs.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I agree...and most of the blame for the first 20 games is on Chayka & Tocchet. We were left without a competent goalie and Tocchet failed in his responsibilities to teach the system he wanted to play. But the team is having really good success right now and not just for a few games, for nearly 25 games they've been strong.

It was a bad start (the worst start of all time), and obviously there was no where to go but up...but for those that are heaping blame must heap some praise for how the team has played in the last 25 games. Last year's team was miserable from start to finish. There is a lot of positives I'm taking out of the recent play and encouraged that several of the players can take their game to a new level next season to help put us in a spot to fight for a playoff spot.

I'm encouraged...last season I was anything but.

 

[MIGs Dog]

14-8-6 in 2018.

11-3-2 in our last 16.
11-4-2 since our 6-0 drubbing at the hands of LA

"Nice little run"

If the season started January 1st we would be in a playoff spot...barely, barely (based on games played)

 

[rt]

No, we should blatantly ignore all of Tocchet’s mistakes in the first half of the season because we deserved no better. Don’t worry, be happy.

Let’s calibrate this argument. It’s so damn meandering and I’m lost.

My point: glad the team is growing and heading in the right direction.

Your point: __________ (fill in the blank with one sentence).

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Let’s calibrate this argument. It’s so damn meandering and I’m lost.

My point: glad the team is growing and heading in the right direction.

Your point: __________ (fill in the blank with one sentence).

I agree with you and I'm somewhat encouraged, but still not sold on Tocchet. (stares longingly at Sutter)

 

[Hogan20]

Over the last couple games, Panik's developed great chemistry with Keller and Stepan and that line really starts to be clicking as a whole. Obviously I'd like to see an upgrade on him but if we end up drafting Dahlin then I'd like our lines to be...

Keller - Stepan - Panik
Domi - Strome - Perlini
Crouse - Dvorak - Fischer
Cousins - Richardson - Martinook
ex; Archibald (I really don't care who it is however, Archibald is already locked up for next year so it'd just be easier to retain him in my mind)

OEL - Demers
Chychrun - Hammer
Gogo - Dahlin
ex; Connauton

If we end up drafting a forward however...

Keller - Stepan - Stone*
Domi - Strome - Perlini
2018 Draft** - Dvorak - Fischer
Cousins - Richardson - Martinook
ex; Crouse

OEL - Demers
Chychrun - Hammer
Gogo - Connauton
ex; Wood/Capobianco/UFA (again, don't have a preference)

** Can be any one of Farabee, Svechnikov, Zadina, Tkachuk
*** If we get Wahlstrom, then
Perlini - Strome - Fischer
Domi - Dvorak - Wahlstrom

*On the point of Stone, I know that he might not be the ideal trade target as Ottawa might want to much for him but what about a package like
Arizona;
Stone

Ottawa;
Merkley
Panik
Conditional 2019 3rd
- Will become a 2019 2nd if Stone scores 20+ goals
- Will become a 2019 1st if the Coyotes make the playoffs and Stone plays 65+ games

 

[Sciamachy]

*On the point of Stone, I know that he might not be the ideal trade target as Ottawa might want to much for him but what about a package like
Arizona;
Stone

Ottawa;
Merkley
Panik
Conditional 2019 3rd
- Will become a 2019 2nd if Stone scores 20+ goals
- Will become a 2019 1st if the Coyotes make the playoffs and Stone plays 65+ games

Gonna take way more than that package to get Stone.

 

[Hogan20]

Gonna take way more than that package to get Stone.

Would you rather have Evander Kane or Mark Stone going forward?

edit; Both of these guys are similarly aged players, Stone has more value because he's a RFA at seasons end while Kane is a UFA and he has a better two-way game.

Kane basically went for Daniel O'Regan, a 2019 2nd an a 2019 4th/2020 4rd(I doubt he resigns in San Jose so that 2nd will stay a 2nd)
O'Regan is nothing special in terms of a prospect, he's been able to put up points in the AHL but hasn't translated that to the NHL yet and he's 24, borderline done growing as a prospect.

Not saying that Stone will go for that but it's just a reminder that even thought they're very good wingers, they don't hold nearly as much value as we often think.

 

[cobra427]

And it was about freakin' time. This run wasn't just the players being more comfortable. For those who like to pay attention to systems, the system clearly changed and became rather risk averse. Remember how the defensemen were trying to send tape to tape passes to a streaking forward during the first half of the season? I rarely saw that since January. Remember all the pinches (which haunted the team far to frequently?) That stopped too.

Someone got through to Tocchet and got him to take his foot off of the gas pedal. This is the real reason for the Coyotes recent success. I'm sure that when/if we get more forward talent Tocchet will floor it again, hopefully with much better results.

We are winning more like when we won in the Tip years. This run has been about great goal tending and solid D. The initial run and gun style is gone now. There are more D to D passes on zone exit before we move it to a forward. Our GAA is among the NHL's lowest so far this year, thats how you win, by not making mistakes an playing solid D. Unlike the Tip years, we have way more fire power up front, that is exciting!

I thought the goal tenders got a raw deal to start the year when they were mostly hung out to dry. We had injuries to hammer and Chychrun that hurt us too. The best thing we have going for us is our top 5 D, Raanta/kuemper and KconnORR if he continues with his play. The D and goal tending can carry us while we wait for the young forwards to develop further. I am thrilled with our recent play, we are in the game, winning, outplaying the other team in many games. I just caution that it is a small sample size but it is encouraging.

I also think Tocc is starting to figure it out which is good, because he will be our coach no matter what.

 

[TheLegend]

We are playing more like we played in the Tip years. This run has been about great goal tending and solid D. The initial run and gun style is gone now. There are more D to D passes on zone exit before we move it to a forward. Our GAA is among the NHL's lowest so far this year, thats how you win, by not making mistakes an playing solid D.

I thought the goal tenders got a raw deal to start the year when they were mostly hung out to dry. We had injuries to hammer and Chychrun that hurt us too. The best thing we have going for us is out top 5 D, Raanta/kuemper and KconnORR if he continues with his play. The D and goal tending can carry us while we wait for the young forwards to develop further. I am thrilled with our recent play, we are in the game, winning, outplaying the other team in many games. I just caution that it is a small sample size but it is encouraging.

I also think Tocc is starting to figure it out which is good, because he will be our coach no matter what.

We never played with this kind of overall speed and aggressiveness in the O-zone under Tippett.

This team isn't built like any of those that Tippett had.

I get the continuing temptation to keep comparing this team's performance to those under Tippett but there really is no comparison.

 

[Lilhoody]

Would you rather have Evander Kane or Mark Stone going forward?

edit; Both of these guys are similarly aged players, Stone has more value because he's a RFA at seasons end while Kane is a UFA and he has a better two-way game.

Kane basically went for Daniel O'Regan, a 2019 2nd an a 2019 4th/2020 4rd(I doubt he resigns in San Jose so that 2nd will stay a 2nd)
O'Regan is nothing special in terms of a prospect, he's been able to put up points in the AHL but hasn't translated that to the NHL yet and he's 24, borderline done growing as a prospect.

I would not want Kane to soil this team...ever.

 

[rt]

-Svechnikov and Zadina are LHS but prefer the off-wing (RW)
-I'd be comfortable penciling Svechnikov into an NHL line-up next season
-I'd be much less comfortable doing the same for Tkachuk or Zadina
-I don't think there's even a remote chance that Wahlstrom or Farabee are NHLers next season

 

[Bonsai Tree]

If you consider that we are going to get Strome and Merkley up next season I am fine putting Zadina or Tkachuk in the AHL for a year.

 

[TheLegend]

Kuemper's new lid......

 

[Jamieh]

Would you rather have Evander Kane or Mark Stone going forward?

edit; Both of these guys are similarly aged players, Stone has more value because he's a RFA at seasons end while Kane is a UFA and he has a better two-way game.

Kane basically went for Daniel O'Regan, a 2019 2nd an a 2019 4th/2020 4rd(I doubt he resigns in San Jose so that 2nd will stay a 2nd)
O'Regan is nothing special in terms of a prospect, he's been able to put up points in the AHL but hasn't translated that to the NHL yet and he's 24, borderline done growing as a prospect.

Not saying that Stone will go for that but it's just a reminder that even thought they're very good wingers, they don't hold nearly as much value as we often think.

You are trying to make a comparison where one doesn't exist.

 

[Heldig]

While Stone would be the perfect add to this team there is almost zero chance to acquire him.

 

[DoanStopBelievin]

C'mon fellas, this team this year is completely different than last year's team. This team this season has dominated teams in stretches, last year's team would win games, but win them ugly. I know some people really liked the previous coach, but c'mon, we've been trending in the right direction after the 20 -game mark and that is to be commended. The team is looking better and better. If we could catch a little luck w/the lottery and Strome establishes himself then we've really got something.

wish I could like this twice

 

[SR]

Remember that one time Tippet had Connauton at forward? Awful. Just wanted to add that to thread, that’s all.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Of course this team is completely different, as it should, and next year will be completely different than this year.We added better talent and the kids are gaining more and more experience and confidence. Over all, this year has been a big disappointment and saying anything less is wrong. Everyone has to take blame, from AB all the way down to the players. This team should be sniffing around for a playoff spot, not competing for last spot. Next year we have to make the playoffs and anything less is unacceptable. We have to up our expectations big time, not expecting to finish around the bottom of the league, and if we don't achieve the playoffs next year, heads better role. We are in year four of the rebuild, time for the playoffs.

If you're expectations were to compete for the playoffs this season and that fails, how can you reasonably set your expectation for next season to be beyond that by actually making the playoffs. I mean, it'd be great if they did, but it's like you set your goals for the next 5 years before this season, and then when they turn out to be overestimating the team, the goals still stand and you have to take two steps the following year. That's how rebuilds get rushed; you trade away some assets, or rush prospects up before they're ready, or whatever else that damages the team's long-term window to being serious contenders all so that the team can make the playoffs a season earlier because some one like the owner just can't wait any longer.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Remember that one time Tippet had Cannaughton at forward? Awful. Just wanted to add that to thread, that’s all.

Is that the same Connauton with more goals than Max Domi?

 

[SR]

Is that the same Connauton with more goals than Max Domi?

That’s him, looks I severely butchered his name.

 

[cobra427]

We never played with this kind of overall speed and aggressiveness in the O-zone under Tippett.

This team isn't built like any of those that Tippett had.

I get the continuing temptation to keep comparing this team's performance to those under Tippett but there really is no comparison.

We never had forwards with this kind of speed, so of course the team couldn't play this way. Actually the back end is, in OEL/hammer/Chychrun/Goose/Demers and Raanta with his recent play, we are very much like teams of old, hard to score against.

 

[Mosby]

If you consider that we are going to get Strome and Merkley up next season I am fine putting Zadina or Tkachuk in the AHL for a year.

I think Merkley is at minimum another year from being an NHL regular.

 

[AZviaNJ]

-Svechnikov and Zadina are LHS but prefer the off-wing (RW)
-I'd be comfortable penciling Svechnikov into an NHL line-up next season
-I'd be much less comfortable doing the same for Tkachuk or Zadina
-I don't think there's even a remote chance that Wahlstrom or Farabee are NHLers next season

Thoughts on Wahlstrom if we pick 5-7 (based on Vancouver full tank and also potentially passing Buffalo/Ottawa)

 

[Mosby]

Kuemper's new lid......

Can't place it, but didn't another Yotes goalie use a similar design i.e. footprint logo on the front like that?