Prospect Info: 2017-18 Prospects Thread (CHL, NCAA, Junior A, Europe)

[tigervixxxen]

Question.

If you sign an ATO, can you still sign an ELC and just tear up the ATO contract?

What I'm saying is, Let's say Makar signs an ATO to finish the season out in the AHL. In doing so he sets the world on fire, looks like he'd improve the Avs blueline and would help the Avs get into the playoffs in the final stretch. Can he sign an ELC and get called up this year?

Not saying he's NHL ready or anything. Just curious if that could happen.

Yeah that's what happened with McAvoy. They were gonna just do the ATO in the AHL but they had injuries and just decided to burn the year so he could play in the playoffs.

 

[Ararana]

I don't even want to think about going into an expansion being able to protect only three of EJ, Zadorov, Girard, Makar, and maybe Barrie. Just leave Makar out of the NHL this season, even if it means him staying in UMass for another season.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I put a lot of value on playing hockey games. For that reason I want Makar to sign an ATO. We're currently in the second week of March and Makar is done for the season. So now what, he stops playing until next September where he'll play another 35/40 college games?

People talk about him using the time off to put on muscle. Look, he needs to get stronger but Makar isn't a small kid. He was 187 freaking pounds at the combine. His elusiveness and speed is very important to his game. Packing that on at once isn't going to be good for his body. At his age and height he shouldn't be much more than that based on the way he plays. If he puts on healthy weight, fine. But there's no rush to pack that on in a hurry. It's certainly not an advantage for him to play less hockey so he can lift more weights at his current age and stature.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Is there really any downside to him signing an ATO for the rest of this season? He'll get in maybe 10-12 games in the AHL and maybe even a game or two for the big club if the Avs look like they'll miss the playoffs - then he can decide on next season. Or is there some cawlidge hawkey rule against it?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Is there really any downside to him signing an ATO for the rest of this season? He'll get in maybe 10-12 games in the AHL and maybe even a game or two for the big club if the Avs look like they'll miss the playoffs - then he can decide on next season. Or is there some cawlidge hawkey rule against it?

If he goes to the AHL, College is done.

 

[henchman21]

I don't see the college schedule as a reason for Makar to leave. 35-40 games is enough and hasn't hurt many players who have gone the college route. The time off isn't just about strength training either... there is more coaching and film study going on too. There are pros and cons to all things, and staying in college isn't all rainbows and unicorns (neither is going pro)... but I do think there is something to stability and figuring out how best to apply his talents on a consistent basis. Makar was the most talented player on his team by far, but it is really hard to argue that he was the best player on the team. To me, giving him another year to really figure out how to dominate college hockey would be hugely beneficial. Much more so than him trying to figure out how to apply his talents at a higher level for the 2nd straight year (and considering the large jumps between levels... seems aggressive).

On top of that, there is still a solid chance he'd be playing pro at the end of the season anyway. I think UMass will be a solid team with him (I think they will have a really solid chance at being in the tournament), but if they aren't... Makar is playing pro hockey in March. To the tune of a 10-15 games with the Avs.

 

[S E P H]

So pretty much exactly what @tigervixxxen said

And both of them are focusing on the program instead of the competition, which I suggest is the more important aspect of it...

 

[Balthazar]

Dater spoke to the UMass coach...can't post the whole thing because it's behind the BSN paywall but the coach says that he expects Makar to be back.

Here's a few quotes from coach Greg Carvel:

“There’s nothing I can really teach him offensively. He has that kind of elite offensive talent already. But it’s the play away from the puck that he still needs to improve,”

“He was partially responsible for some of the goals against over the weekend. I think next year, though, he would be a dominant player in our league. This year, he was just a very good player.”

 

[Pacman33]

Dater spoke to the UMass coach...can't post the whole thing because it's behind the BSN paywall but the coach says that he expects Makar to be back.

Here's a few quotes from coach Greg Carvel:

“There’s nothing I can really teach him offensively. He has that kind of elite offensive talent already. But it’s the play away from the puck that he still needs to improve,”

“He was partially responsible for some of the goals against over the weekend. I think next year, though, he would be a dominant player in our league. This year, he was just a very good player.”

We want makar back so lets throw him under the bus. Story checks out lol

 

[henchman21]

Yeah that’s not the case at all. Carvel is being honest... Makar was good, not great this year. I know people don’t want to believe that, but it is how it went.

 

[cgf]

We want makar back so lets throw him under the bus. Story checks out lol

Pointing out someone's shortcomings =/= throwing them under the bus

 

[S E P H]

Yeah that’s not the case at all. Carvel is being honest... Makar was good, not great this year. I know people don’t want to believe that, but it is how it went.

Are there people here that actually believe Makar has #1 potential?

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah that’s not the case at all. Carvel is being honest... Makar was good, not great this year. I know people don’t want to believe that, but it is how it went.

Yes but let's not act like he doesn't have a vested interest in Makar returning, therefore it's going to affect his public approach to this. Not necessarily a diss on him, but he's not "just being honest." There's more to it than that.

 

[Pacman33]

Pointing out someone's shortcomings =/= throwing under the bus

Ahh i didnt mean needing work without the puck. Meant the being partially responsible for the goals against this weekend. Not many times do you hear coaches saying whose responsible for goals against

 

[henchman21]

Yes but let's not act like he doesn't have a vested interest in Makar returning, therefore it's going to affect his public approach to this. Not necessarily a diss on him, but he's not "just being honest." There's more to it than that.

Let’s not act like a coach will diss a top player on his team that he has a real, personal relationship with. A player that if he alienated could easily just move on.

Makar was far from perfect this year and still needs to work on his game. He still has steps he can take in college and improve.

 

[cgf]

Are there people here that actually believe Makar has #1 potential?

oh seph, you so silly

 

[S E P H]

oh seph

I'm not saying he doesn't have it, but that it probably will be highly unlikely that he will reach that. Every few players become as good as Subban, Karlsson, and Lidstrom type of level. It is more probable that he becomes the next Gostibehere, Krug, Yandle, Barrie than him becoming Josi. FTR I hope I am wrong here.

 

[dahrougem2]

I put a lot of value on playing hockey games. For that reason I want Makar to sign an ATO. We're currently in the second week of March and Makar is done for the season. So now what, he stops playing until next September where he'll play another 35/40 college games?

People talk about him using the time off to put on muscle. Look, he needs to get stronger but Makar isn't a small kid. He was 187 freaking pounds at the combine. His elusiveness and speed is very important to his game. Packing that on at once isn't going to be good for his body. At his age and height he shouldn't be much more than that based on the way he plays. If he puts on healthy weight, fine. But there's no rush to pack that on in a hurry. It's certainly not an advantage for him to play less hockey so he can lift more weights at his current age and stature.

There's a Nathan MacKinnon lesson to be learned here.

 

[Balthazar]

Every few players become as good as Subban, Karlsson, and Lidstrom type of level.

After getting drafted, Subban played 2 years in the OHL + one year in the AHL before joining the NHL.

 

[Pokecheque]

Let’s not act like a coach will diss a top player on his team that he has a real, personal relationship with. A player that if he alienated could easily just move on.

Makar was far from perfect this year and still needs to work on his game. He still has steps he can take in college and improve.

I read that as "he needs to work on his game, he can do that here" so he too is playing the long game. It's clear he has some big holes in his game still, the question is where is the best place to go for him to develop further? It'll ultimately be his decision, but I'm hoping for him to make the jump to the AHL. But if he opts for Umass again, I'll be fine with that choice too.

 

[cgf]

I'm not saying he doesn't have it, but that it probably will be highly unlikely that he will reach that. Every few players become as good as Subban, Karlsson, and Lidstrom type of level. It is more probable that he becomes the next Gostibehere, Krug, Yandle, Barrie than him becoming Josi. FTR I hope I am wrong here.

*shrug* you say that as though that's not true of every young blueline prospect other than Dahlin. Sure it's a long shot, but Makar has as good a shot of doing it as any mere mortal.

 

[henchman21]

I read that as "he needs to work on his game, he can do that here" so he too is playing the long game. It's clear he has some big holes in his game still, the question is where is the best place to go for him to develop further? It'll ultimately be his decision, but I'm hoping for him to make the jump to the AHL. But if he opts for Umass again, I'll be fine with that choice too.

Which is not an inaccurate statement with Makar. He still has a few levels that he can go in college. He has the talent to be an utterly dominate player in college, but still has to figure that out. I understand why some want him in the AHL, but I see it being too much too soon. This season we saw the adjustment wasn't perfectly clean going into college and he isn't a dominate player there yet, but the jump from college to the AHL is about as big. When a player still has more to learn at the level they are at, I think it is best to let them stay there for a bit longer. It is also pretty well known at this point that dominate college players are usually NHL ready or very close when they move on.

 

[cgf]

Which is not an inaccurate statement with Makar. He still has a few levels that he can go in college. He has the talent to be an utterly dominate player in college, but still has to figure that out. I understand why some want him in the AHL, but I see it being too much too soon. This season we saw the adjustment wasn't perfectly clean going into college and he isn't a dominate player there yet, but the jump from college to the AHL is about as big. When a player still has more to learn at the level they are at, I think it is best to let them stay there for a bit longer. It is also pretty well known at this point that dominate college players are usually NHL ready or very close when they move on.

Yeah, plus if he goes back to college it's not like we won't sign him once his season ends next year. Meaning the "not playing enough games" argument is really only applicable to this next month that he could be playing for the Rampage. Which isn't a very big deal to me in the grand scheme of things.

It would be cool if he was AHL-friendly and I'd be happy to end things with SA on a high note by giving them a talent like that to help give them a playoff season before we go...but not getting those 10-15 extra games is a much lesser consideration for me than whether we are rushing him to go pro if he isn't ready. Especially if he wants to go straight to the NHL and isn't down to spend much of next season in Loveland.

 

[henchman21]

On the Makar/#1D thing... I get where SEPH is coming from. A #1D expectation with Makar's build and current holes in his game is a lot to ask, and honestly... pretty damn unlikely. It takes a really exceptional player to overcome that. Makar could be that guy, but the odds are stacked against him. It just hasn't happened much over the years. A much safer projection is of a Ghost/Barrie level player, and that is still one hell of a defensemen. Nothing to scoff at in the least.

 

[Foppa2118]

On the Makar/#1D thing... I get where SEPH is coming from. A #1D expectation with Makar's build and current holes in his game is a lot to ask, and honestly... pretty damn unlikely. It takes a really exceptional player to overcome that. Makar could be that guy, but the odds are stacked against him. It just hasn't happened much over the years. A much safer projection is of a Ghost/Barrie level player, and that is still one hell of a defensemen. Nothing to scoff at in the least.

So then you think McAvoy doesn't have #1D potential either right? Makar is built very similarly. Makar clearly grew this year, and is close to, if not over 6'0". McAvoy may end up having 5-7 lbs on him in the NHL. That's simply not enough to say one guy has #1 potential and the other does not.