2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

[kings11]

That was horrific asset management though from the initial pick to losing him for nothing.

Still remember a Kings fan banging the drum for Hickey in the WJC threads while Subban was getting all the praise. Kept saying something like how this tournament was built for hot dogging and is more conducive to Subban's game than Hickey.

Looks like the NHL is as well.

I wanted Voracek. Thought another big and skilled forward to go along with Kopitar would have been great. Regardless, butterfly effect and the Kings eventually got two Cups so I wouldn't change anything prior to the moment Dean decided to bring Richards back in June of '14.

The pick was a reach, however Hickey actually outplayed Drew in camp but his lack of size and being the same type of mobile Dman
allowed DL and FO to send him back to Seattle where his career stalled after a really bad concussion on a cheap shot and then having his ankle reconstructed after a bad break....
That pales in comparison to selecting Colton Tuebert in a generational, Franchise altering Dmen draft ....

 

[Martyros]

My point was, people claimed that waiving him was SOOOO bad when in reality we might have gotten a 4th round pick for him. Jones being a throw in for the Lucic trade was worse asset management imo.

 

[raswilliam]

The pick was a reach, however Hickey actually outplayed Drew in camp but his lack of size and being the same type of mobile Dman
allowed DL and FO to send him back to Seattle where his career stalled after a really bad concussion on a cheap shot and then having his ankle reconstructed after a bad break....
That pales in comparison to selecting Colton Tuebert in a generational, Franchise altering Dmen draft ....

People dont realize that Erik Karlsson was a reach for Ottawa as well. They took him at #15, but he was ranked at #44 by central scouting.

I get it though, I often look back at 2003, 2007 and 2008 drafts and wonder what could have been. I'm sure a lot of fans do that. In 2008 we could was had dd, EK and VV. Or even Josi with our first 3 picks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My point was, people claimed that waiving him was SOOOO bad when in reality we might have gotten a 4th round pick for him. Jones being a throw in for the Lucic trade was worse asset management imo.

When is wasting a 4th overall pick on nothing but waiver fodder considered a good thing? No matter what you say or how you cut it, that is terrible asset management.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The pick was a reach, however Hickey actually outplayed Drew in camp but his lack of size and being the same type of mobile Dman
allowed DL and FO to send him back to Seattle where his career stalled after a really bad concussion on a cheap shot and then having his ankle reconstructed after a bad break....
That pales in comparison to selecting Colton Tuebert in a generational, Franchise altering Dmen draft ....

When did this happen? Everyone knew from the get go that Doughty was NHL ready. There was never any hint that Hickey was NHL ready from the training camps he participated in as a King.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Yup, if you think a former 4th overall pick wont ever meet expectations, get rid of him as soon as possible. I believe now we had to waive him to keep Muzzin on the roster.

Same with Martin Jones. Some say we couldnt keep him anyway because he wanted to be a NHL starter. Fine with me, but trade him in an earlier stadium.

 

[kings11]

When did this happen? Everyone knew from the get go that Doughty was NHL ready. There was never any hint that Hickey was NHL ready from the training camps he participated in as a King.

Oh im sorry you missed it dusty. The fact is Hickey did outplay Drew during rookie camp then was sent back down because they didn't think he had the size to play in the NHL and both played a similar game... I can't remember the article LA Times/Online ?? but those were the words from the FO.. Don't let the fact that he was a "BUST" for us confuse you with the fact the he was a very talented player who never physically grew as anticipated and was derailed by some pretty bad injuries... Either way, he'd probably be better than our current 6/7 Dmen..

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Fact? How can you prove Hickey outplayed Doughty in camp? If they didn't think he had the size to play in the NHL, then why the f*** would they draft him at fourth overall? I was at those camps, Doughty was by far advanced for his age and stood out above anyone else.

As soon as Doughty stepped foot in camp, the players and staff marveled at how far ahead he was. Let's not act like they rushed Doughty to play in the NHL because he went 2nd overall. He was NHL ready as an 18-year old. Hickey wasn't, and he certainly wasn't close to it a year later.

Hickey spent four years in Manchester and never once was called up. A guy taken a year later than him, in the 2nd round, surpassed him as well. And he's the same size as Hickey. That guy was Voynov.

Hickey has certainly become a serviceable mid-bottom pairing dman for the Isles, but going fourth overall was a huuuuge stretch then and still is today.

 

[kings11]

Fact? How can you prove Hickey outplayed Doughty in camp? If they didn't think he had the size to play in the NHL, then why the **** would they draft him at fourth overall? I was at those camps, Doughty was by far advanced for his age and stood out above anyone else.

As soon as Doughty stepped foot in camp, the players and staff marveled at how far ahead he was. Let's not act like they rushed Doughty to play in the NHL because he went 2nd overall. He was NHL ready as an 18-year old. Hickey wasn't, and he certainly wasn't close to it a year later.

Hickey spent four years in Manchester and never once was called up. A guy taken a year later than him, in the 2nd round, surpassed him as well. And he's the same size as Hickey. That guy was Voynov.

Hickey has certainly become a serviceable mid-bottom pairing dman for the Isles, but going fourth overall was a huuuuge stretch then and still is today.

Let me give you a refresh... the Kings wanted Hickey because they thought he’d grow a bit more( obviously didn’t happen), they tried to trade back into the teens but “got wind” that Boston wanted him at 8 OA so they took their guy... so there is your answer(s) as to why Hickey went 4th..
As for playing in the NHL, well that’s a combination of a non existent grow spurt, career stunting injuries and other guys just passing him by... As for your comment about Hickey not outplaying Drew, well keep in mind TH was 19 YO and had a year of growth and was also ahead of the curve(minus size) and did everything that was expected of him... I mean, if you want more details just comb through articles about that seasons camp.
As for you being at the camps, well I’m sure you could see the kid was slightly above average in his overall game whereas Doughty was spectacular with the puck although his defense lagged.. no offense, but I’ll take the word of the FO and scouts over anyone in this board, especially when it was in print..

Don’t confuse your disdain for him being the 4th OA with the fact that he was a very talented kid who just didn’t pan out for us... I for one, still don’t understand why the hell he wasn’t traded when you knew he had to clear waivers or more to your point, why we didn’t trade down or go in another direction?? I thought we would nab JVor or Alzner ??? But that’s all water under the bridge...

 

[Reaper45]

Both Hickey and Fransson had to be waived to keep Muzzin. Both Hickey and Fransson outplayed Muzzin in camp but look how that ended up.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Both Hickey and Fransson had to be waived to keep Muzzin. Both Hickey and Fransson outplayed Muzzin in camp but look how that ended up.

They also elected to keep Davis Drewiske, and then went out and added Ellerby after waiving Hickey.

 

[Reaper45]

In hindsight waive Drewiske and Fransson, keep Muzzin and Hickey, number 7 dman be damned.

 

[Reaper45]

Also Ellerby, wtf man. 29 years old, former 10th overall pick, currently playing in Sweden. Talk about a bust.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Helen Kellerby

Miss that kid.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I think those years are why I react so strongly to "DL is terrible/the team is terrible" talk. We've all seen and experienced some **** around here.

I mean, I’m all for defending Lombardi, but the team as it stands today is not very good. That seems pretty unarguable.

The late 90s teams were terrible for the exact same reasons. Black hole city.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, I’m all for defending Lombardi, but the team as it stands today is not very good. That seems pretty unarguable.

The late 90s teams were terrible for the exact same reasons. Black hole city.

That's arguable all day which is why these threads are so long.

However, I'm talking more about the "DL is a shit GM" sort of talk.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Let me give you a refresh... the Kings wanted Hickey because they thought he’d grow a bit more( obviously didn’t happen), they tried to trade back into the teens but “got wind” that Boston wanted him at 8 OA so they took their guy... so there is your answer(s) as to why Hickey went 4th..
As for playing in the NHL, well that’s a combination of a non existent grow spurt, career stunting injuries and other guys just passing him by... As for your comment about Hickey not outplaying Drew, well keep in mind TH was 19 YO and had a year of growth and was also ahead of the curve(minus size) and did everything that was expected of him... I mean, if you want more details just comb through articles about that seasons camp.
As for you being at the camps, well I’m sure you could see the kid was slightly above average in his overall game whereas Doughty was spectacular with the puck although his defense lagged.. no offense, but I’ll take the word of the FO and scouts over anyone in this board, especially when it was in print..

Don’t confuse your disdain for him being the 4th OA with the fact that he was a very talented kid who just didn’t pan out for us... I for one, still don’t understand why the hell he wasn’t traded when you knew he had to clear waivers or more to your point, why we didn’t trade down or go in another direction?? I thought we would nab JVor or Alzner ??? But that’s all water under the bridge...

I think you aren't remembering things accurately.

Kings' defensive lineup taking shape; Doughty-O'Donnell still No. 1 pairing

Camp thoughts

Young guns

O’Donnell impressed with Doughty

Defensemen analysis

Let me know if you find any single shred of evidence that showed Hickey outperformed Doughty at the 2008 training camp, because I believe what you are stating is pure fiction.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

That's arguable all day which is why these threads are so long.

However, I'm talking more about the "DL is a **** GM" sort of talk.

Idk man. A playoff bubble team who can’t string together more than 1-2 good games, consistently gives up the first goal, and has the worst first period goal differential in the league doesn’t seem like much to write home about.

If this team was anywhere near contention, they wouldn’t be fighting for a wild card spot.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Idk man. A playoff bubble team who can’t string together more than 1-2 good games, consistently gives up the first goal, and has the worst first period goal differential in the league doesn’t seem like much to write home about.

If this team was anywhere near contention, they wouldn’t be fighting for a wild card spot.

Please stop moving the goalposts. I've simply said the talk about the team being terrible is invalid. You said they're not very good, which I said is obviously debateable (counterpoints--beat vegas back to back, best 3rd goal differential in the league, best record when coming back), and now your bar is contenders?

Remember, my original point is contextual, not about "are the Kings true contenders right this moment?" My point is that DL is not terrible and the Kings right now are not terrible in comparison to the organization from yesteryear.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Please stop moving the goalposts. I've simply said the talk about the team being terrible is invalid. You said they're not very good, which I said is obviously debateable (counterpoints--beat vegas back to back, best 3rd goal differential in the league, best record when coming back), and now your bar is contenders?

Remember, my original point is contextual, not about "are the Kings true contenders right this moment?" My point is that DL is not terrible and the Kings right now are not terrible in comparison to the organization from yesteryear.

I guess that’s our disagreement then. You think the playoff bubble is the threshold for “good.” I don’t.

This team will be lucky to make the playoffs this year, much less win a round, and they have an aging core. If you think that kind of black hole is anything less than terrible for the franchise, we’re not going to agree.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I guess that’s our disagreement then. You think the playoff bubble is the threshold for “good.” I don’t.

This team will be lucky to make the playoffs this year, much less win a round, and they have an aging core. If you think that kind of black hole is anything less than terrible for the franchise, we’re not going to agree.

Just so we're clear--you think this is the worst time in franchise history?

 

[Herby]

Lombardi's problem always was the inability to add enough high end talent at the draft, especially at forward, that is what did him in with the Kings. Had some nice trades and signings and was good at finding depth players at the draft but the Kings were never able come close to drafting another Kopitar caliber forward,

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Lombardi's problem always was the inability to add enough high end talent at the draft, especially at forward, that is what did him in with the Kings. Had some nice trades and signings and was good at finding depth players at the draft but the Kings were never able come close to drafting another Kopitar caliber forward,

That speaks to the job that he did in building the teams though, and why we won in 2012/2014,

The team is in a shambles now, yes, guess what, so is Chicago, PIT will be there as well, it's a cylical league now, especially with the cap,

2009 was the closest they came to drafting an impact forward, in Brayden Schenn , and they used him to get Richards etc etc etc, culminates in winning the cup in 2012,

2011 our #1 pick was Chris Gibson, we didn't have a #1

2012, we took Pearson over....who, Chris Tierney etc? We had the last pick in the first round

2013, we took Zykov, in round 2, again, no 1st round pick, instead of Zykov we take who, Lehkonen? Not sure it matters

2014, we took Kempe with #29, over who etc?

2015 2016, no first round picks, etc

Kind of hard to draft another Kopitar when A. those caliber players are few and far between but after 2009, we have 3 1st rounders in the six-seven years etc,

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The trading of first round picks to try to secure a playoff spot is what I think many lament.

2015, we had our sights set on Barzal... that one is going to sting a bit and linger for some time.

 

[BigKing]

Lombardi's problem always was the inability to add enough high end talent at the draft, especially at forward, that is what did him in with the Kings. Had some nice trades and signings and was good at finding depth players at the draft but the Kings were never able come close to drafting another Kopitar caliber forward,

Most teams don't come close to drafting another Kopitar caliber forward. He drafted in the Top 10 only three times: Hickey mistake/Doughty/Schenn. He went for it with the Schenn pick instead of going defense again.

He traded his two best forward selections in Schenn/Simmonds to "go for it". Once there, they never drafted high again. Did pretty well with Toffoli/Pearson/Kempe relative to draft position.

The big problem is not having high picks and having to hope that they could continue to hit on 2nd rounders like they did previously. That magic vanished.

Hopefully for Blake and all of us, he was gifted a high-end forward at #11OA in his first draft, much like Lombardi was gifted Kopitar.