2017-18 Around the League

[henchman21]

This is horrible logic.

Go on...

 

[Nalens Oga]

Did Dorion really hold a surprise presser to say "Absolutely nothing is happening"? That's an odd move to say the least.

I believe that the media requested it and he obliged. You can't hide for months as easily in Canada as Sakic can in Colorado.

But yeah he basically said nothing.

 

[Pokecheque]

Go on...

Purposely hire a guy as an interim measure because, hey, aren't they all interim measures? Sorry, I meant to say this is insanely horrible logic.

That's akin to settling for the Ford Pinto with the leaky gas tank because, hey, don't all cars break down after a time?

You're looking for a quick-fix guy for a team clearly building for long term. They should be looking for the guy who makes them a winner now and in the future, not some guy who's gonna take them to maybe one playoff run and then get tuned out. Not to mention he fits the scope of this team even less than he does Ottawa's.

I think of you as one of the more knowledegable posters on here, but I've never disagreed with you more.

 

[henchman21]

Purposely hire a guy as an interim measure because, hey, aren't they all interim measures? Sorry, I meant to say this is insanely horrible logic.

That's akin to settling for the Ford Pinto with the leaky gas tank because, hey, don't all cars break down after a time?

You're looking for a quick-fix guy for a team clearly building for long term. They should be looking for the guy who makes them a winner now and in the future, not some guy who's gonna take them to maybe one playoff run and then get tuned out. Not to mention he fits the scope of this team even less than he does Ottawa's.

I think of you as one of the more knowledegable posters on here, but I've never disagreed with you more.

Unless you are getting a Cooper/Babcock/Q/Laviolette sort of coach, they are all disposable. Get ones that can help your team get to the next level and work up the chain until the team is desireable enough to attract one of the top end coaches because until the Avs are a playoff level young team with upside, they won't attract the high end coaches. Find a coach to get them to that level and one that has a proven record to get there. Boucher could do that, and do it quickly. He wouldn't be my top choice (of coaches who may get canned, AV would be my absolute top choice), but I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Number of coaches that started 13-14 with their current club: 3 (Q, Cooper, AV)
14-15: 7 (3 above plus Maurice, Laviolette, Trotz, and Peters)

The other 24 clubs in the NHL all haven't made it 3 seasons yet. Hakstol, McLellan, Babcock, Deboer, Hynes, and Blashill are the group that started 15-16. Babcock is definitely safe. Hynes likely is... beyond those two, I could see all the others being canned. Coaches don't last 3 seasons in the NHL unless they are elite. Find a coach to advance the team to the next level, and make the job more attractive. At the stage the Avs are at, attracting a coach who will be good enough for 5 years is a fool's errand.

 

[Pokecheque]

Unless you are getting a Cooper/Babcock/Q/Laviolette sort of coach, they are all disposable. Get ones that can help your team get to the next level and work up the chain until the team is desireable enough to attract one of the top end coaches because until the Avs are a playoff level young team with upside, they won't attract the high end coaches. Find a coach to get them to that level and one that has a proven record to get there. Boucher could do that, and do it quickly. He wouldn't be my top choice (of coaches who may get canned, AV would be my absolute top choice), but I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Number of coaches that started 13-14 with their current club: 3 (Q, Cooper, AV)
14-15: 7 (3 above plus Maurice, Laviolette, Trotz, and Peters)

The other 24 clubs in the NHL all haven't made it 3 seasons yet. Hakstol, McLellan, Babcock, Deboer, Hynes, and Blashill are the group that started 15-16. Babcock is definitely safe. Hynes likely is... beyond those two, I could see all the others being canned. Coaches don't last 3 seasons in the NHL unless they are elite. Find a coach to advance the team to the next level, and make the job more attractive. At the stage the Avs are at, attracting a coach who will be good enough for 5 years is a fool's errand.

See, once again I'm not with ya at all. Those are the elite class of bench bosses there, yes. But this is like saying "Y'know, we have some really great players on our team, but none are McDavid so we should just settle for this grinder over here and call it a day."

And yet another hole in your logic, Boucher would be having them playing a completely different style of hockey, one that would be completely undone by the next guy. That's supposed to be some sort of progression? Bullshit.

I get bench bosses have a short shelf life. Them's the breaks. Even Scotty Bowman got the boot a few times. Doesn't mean you should just settle for a grind-it-up coach because he's part of some larger plan. Used like that Boucher could do far more damage than good. The goal is for sustained success in the future and signs of progress along the way. Boucher doesn't check any of those boxes. This team isn't built for him now and most definitely won't be in the future. Let some other sucker desperate to turn things around take him, I'd rather Joe find the guy he thinks will take the young talent on this team to the next level. I've already gone on record as to who I think it might be, but we'll see.

You can throw all the numbers you want at me--purposely hiring an interim coach and treating Guy Boucher like he's another Joe Sacco makes no sense whatsoever.

The last GM to try what you're suggesting? Lou Lamoriello. He fired Larry Robinson and hired notable tough guy Kevin Constantine. I don't think it worked but you may disagree. Lou simply hired a better coach (Pat Burns) the next season and they went on to win the Cup again.

 

[McMetal]

I don't like the idea of waiting in line for a great coach, because there are only maybe five of those in the league, and they don't change teams often. It seems like you need to just go with what you have at a certain point rather than wait for everything to be perfect. I don't want to waste MacKinnon's prime waiting for a guy like Babcock to get fired and then MAYBE choose us when that time comes.

 

[PAZ]

I think there's a lot of very good coaches out there, Boudreau, Hitchcock, Julien, AV, Laviolette, Torts, etc. Ideally, the Wild stink it up this year and Boudreau gets canned. He'd be the perfect coach to get us to the next level, because I do agree there are very few elite coaches that you expect to be around 5 years from now. Boudreau is one of the best at helping players blossom offensively while still playing in a system. His track record isn't great for the playoffs, but that's an issue once you become a consistent playoff contender.

I think a more realistic option will be AV, as long as we don't give him options to start playing plugs like Tanner Glass he'll be a great coach for the team. This team has already had enough experience with inexperienced coaches, it's time to sign a legitimate coach. I actually don't mind Bednar for the rest of this season, but if a coach like AV or Boudreau becomes available you don't look back.

 

[henchman21]

Boucher isn’t a grinder coach, he is a great coach who just loses his room early. Today’s Mike Keenan. Boucher gets this team to a level where you enter the conversation for the 5-10 level coaches.

Treating a coach like Sacco is giving a crappy coach 4 seasons... that might be what we are going through with Bednar. Maybe exactly...

AV would be my top realistic choice by a mile. We have a roster that fits him too. I’d be surprised if he lasted past 3 years too late though.

 

[Pokecheque]

Boucher isn’t a grinder coach, he is a great coach who just loses his room early. Today’s Mike Keenan. Boucher gets this team to a level where you enter the conversation for the 5-10 level coaches.

Treating a coach like Sacco is giving a crappy coach 4 seasons... that might be what we are going through with Bednar. Maybe exactly...

AV would be my top realistic choice by a mile. We have a roster that fits him too. I’d be surprised if he lasted past 3 years too late though.

Oh he absolutely is a grinder coach. He has a love affair with washed-up Johnny Oduya while Thomas Chabot finds himself in and out of the lineup, not to mention scratching Frederik Claesson in favor of Cody f***ing Ceci. And the fact you're advocating for the modern-day Keenan makes me wonder if the Avs' struggles have made you lose your damn mind.

Sacco's situation is not the same as Bednar. Not even close. Bednar was fresh off a Calder Cup win and also had a Kelly Cup win under his belt. Sacco had a whopping two years as an AHL assistant and two more as an AHL head coach. After some middling returns (admittedly not his fault as he was given a bad roster) he was given the reins for a team that was in Year One of a rebuild. They essentially gave him the job because Roy turned it down.

I'm a big Vigneault fan as well. I don't think they'll get him though.

 

[The Shermanator]

I went to the Sens game tonight. 2nd time I've been able to see Dutchy in person. Looked great. Nice assist on the 2nd goal and 2nd star. Happy for him. Saw Holden on the ice once too!

 

[Cousin Eddie]

AV is the coach I'd want. Don't think he gets anywhere near enough credit.

 

[Pokecheque]

On a side note, I keep hearing Holden is a decent skater but man, I remember him getting burned multiple times and looking like a drunken turtle trying to hustle back. Am I wrong about his skating? I get he's not Nate Guenin out there but I didn't think he was fast either.

 

[McMetal]

On a side note, I keep hearing Holden is a decent skater but man, I remember him getting burned multiple times and looking like a drunken turtle trying to hustle back. Am I wrong about his skating? I get he's not Nate Guenin out there but I didn't think he was fast either.

Decent is the word I would use. Not bad, not good, decent. Certainly not good enough to make up for his mental lapses and softness.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think Holden, for his size, has excellent lateral ability. That's a huge factor in his skating. He's no speed demon, but I think his lateral ability helps him compensate a great deal when speedy forwards come in on him.

 

[Foppa2118]

Ottawa must be in mourning today. Melnyk announced he's not selling the team, and wants to give it to his kids.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Brutal, brutal day for Sens fans.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Maybe his kids will do better. Once Dollar Bill Wirtz kicked over Chicago got its house in order.

 

[Pokecheque]

Speaking of the Sens, I was thinking about uniform designs and how at least most of them are good or at least acceptable, with only a few really awful ones out there.

So an impromptu ranking, since no one asked.

GREAT: CHI, STL, DAL, PHI, MON, NYR, NYI
GOOD: BUF, BOS, DET, COL, CBJ, TOR, PIT, TB
OK: EDM, FLA, MIN, NJ, NSH, SJ, WSH, CAR, VAN, VGK
UGH: CGY, LA, AZ, ANA, OTT, WPG

 

[Foppberg]

Speaking of the Sens, I was thinking about uniform designs and how at least most of them are good or at least acceptable, with only a few really awful ones out there.

So an impromptu ranking, since no one asked.

GREAT: CHI, STL, DAL, PHI, MON, NYR, NYI
GOOD: BUF, BOS, DET, COL, CBJ, TOR, PIT, TB
OK: EDM, FLA, MIN, NJ, NSH, SJ, WSH, CAR, VAN, VGK
UGH: CGY, LA, AZ, ANA, OTT, WPG

Personally I'd have Avs, Pittsburgh and Edmonton in the great category, and Minny + LA in the good category.

 

[Pokecheque]

Personally I'd have Avs, Pittsburgh and Edmonton in the great category, and Minny + LA in the good category.

I'd put Edmonton in the great category if they didn't go with those obnoxious bright orange/dark navy numbers they're currently wearing. Their classic Copper-and-Blue look is timeless. I think I'd agree with Pittsburgh, I do like those jerseys.

LA, no way, I hate those current half-assed black sweaters with the bad number fonts and silvery piping, not to mention the weird front panel logo. If they went back to the Gretzky-era look or even better, the classic Purple-and-Golds, they'd be in the great category. I just didn't put them in the UGH category because they're not quite Calgary-bad. But they've gotten progressively worse since ditching those Gretzky-era jerseys and came out with those black-and-purple numbers.

Minny's got a good logo but I'm pretty underwhelmed with their current look. Maybe I'm just annoyed because the North Stars were an all-time-great name, logo, and jersey. I pine for the day the current owner regains the name rights and changes the name back to North Stars. And yes, I think it'd be fine co-existing with the Stars since this league already has Blues and Blue Jackets.

 

[Murzu]

Wow. Some Florida fans feeling a bit insecure when the topic is Barkov vs MacKinnon http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/mackinnon-vs-barkov.2422169/

 

[McMetal]

Wow. Some Florida fans feeling a bit insecure when the topic is Barkov vs MacKinnon http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/mackinnon-vs-barkov.2422169/

It's going to take the rest of the league a while to catch up to MacKinnon breaking out. Most people still think he's a bust.

 

[UncleRisto]

So sell the team.

 

[Foppberg]

As much as we don't like Kroneke... at least we don't have Melnyk.

 

[UncleRisto]

I feel bad for Sens fans.