Prospect Info: 2016 Leafs Pick - 72nd Overall (NJ) - J.D. Greenway - D - USNTDP [6-5/205]

[highslot]

I know plenty about Lou. My comment was specific to this particular draft. Set aside Matthews, it looks like the leafs picked to bulk up - everywhere. Alot of them seem like high floor- low ceiling type players. I get that we are developing Alot of smaller guys, but to pick 31 and have Benson on the board, Abramov, hart, and parsons but instead go with a player who is less likely to make the nhl and plays a position that is relatively deep at the ahl level... just odd. Whatever, we had a killer draft last year and I hope I'm wrong on evaluating futures for this year.

i agree to a large degree because benson, abramov, hart and laberge, asplund were available. but i put a lot of faith not in just hunter, but bergman and the russian scout. it will be interesting to compare in a few years.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

He may be raw, but he's raw in a lot of different ways. If he can connect the dots he has top pair potential. That clip may be an anomaly, but it still shows potential of what he's capable of. Ignoring that is just being a hater.

I would call some of our later picks a little "raw-er" then greenway. Did you watch them extensively too? If not, claiming greenway to be the rawest player in the draft is being a little narrow minded.

I didn't say Greenway was definitively the rawest player of the draft. I said he might be.

What I mean by that is of the ~80 players I watched (including Kristaps Zile and Colin Grannary, they are raw talents for sure), he is the rawest of them. HOWEVER, I didn't use an absolute because I hadn't watched some of the other players picked, you're right. They could be rawer than him, but I wouldn't know, I didn't watch them.

The fact that he is the rawest of the ~80 players I watched, ~65 were drafted, gives him a decent chance of being one of the rawest of the draft.

Again, I said he might be. If he isn't, he is certainly up there.

Either way, the whole point of me saying any of this was to let you guys know before you saw him that he is nowhere near a finished product. A lot of the attributes used to describe him are not true (yet).

I'll have to go through who you guys picked in the later rounds. I nodded off for a bit (the 2nd round started at 7am for us and if I'm not awake by 5:00 I would sleep through it ).

Of course the clip shows potential, but I don't think I ever saw anything like that from him outside of that (there was one clip against Muskegon, I think, that was kind of like that. He didn't score though but it was a great power move to the net). It's important to have that context.

I'm not a hater. Believe me, I'm a huge fan of the big guys (Burns, Byfuglien). I want players like him and Middleton to succeed.

 

[RyanOhReally]

My knowledge of Greenway before the draft came from knowing his brother, and reading a report that said he will be drafted higher than he should because of having the Greenway name. I remember it was saying 3rd-4th was high, but where he'll go, and he did.

Raw tools; could put it together. Most College guys you tend to dump and forget until the team signs them anyway. How many of us kept up with Dakota Joshua on anything but a monthly basis this year..? Hopefully he's at least a serviceable Top 6 d-man in 5 years.

 

[Jeypic]

I didn't say Greenway was definitively the rawest player of the draft. I said he might be.

What I mean by that is of the ~80 players I watched (including Kristaps Zile and Colin Grannary, they are raw talents for sure), he is the rawest of them. HOWEVER, I didn't use an absolute because I hadn't watched some of the other players picked, you're right. They could be rawer than him, but I wouldn't know, I didn't watch them.

The fact that he is the rawest of the ~80 players I watched, ~65 were drafted, gives him a decent chance of being one of the rawest of the draft.

Again, I said he might be. If he isn't, he is certainly up there.

Either way, the whole point of me saying any of this was to let you guys know before you saw him that he is nowhere near a finished product. A lot of the attributes used to describe him are not true (yet).

I'll have to go through who you guys picked in the later rounds. I nodded off for a bit (the 2nd round started at 7am for us and if I'm not awake by 5:00 I would sleep through it ).

Of course the clip shows potential, but I don't think I ever saw anything like that from him outside of that (there was one clip against Muskegon, I think, that was kind of like that. He didn't score though but it was a great power move to the net). It's important to have that context.

I'm not a hater. Believe me, I'm a huge fan of the big guys (Burns, Byfuglien). I want players like him and Middleton to succeed.

well then your whole point to me is mute, because I already saw him play, and you sound way off. What 18 yo is a finished product anyway? Kind of a silly point to try and make. Auston matthews isn't a finished product either

 

[Pholus]

I didn't say Greenway was definitively the rawest player of the draft. I said he might be.

What I mean by that is of the ~80 players I watched (including Kristaps Zile and Colin Grannary, they are raw talents for sure), he is the rawest of them. HOWEVER, I didn't use an absolute because I hadn't watched some of the other players picked, you're right. They could be rawer than him, but I wouldn't know, I didn't watch them.

The fact that he is the rawest of the ~80 players I watched, ~65 were drafted, gives him a decent chance of being one of the rawest of the draft.

Again, I said he might be. If he isn't, he is certainly up there.

Either way, the whole point of me saying any of this was to let you guys know before you saw him that he is nowhere near a finished product. A lot of the attributes used to describe him are not true (yet).

I'll have to go through who you guys picked in the later rounds. I nodded off for a bit (the 2nd round started at 7am for us and if I'm not awake by 5:00 I would sleep through it ).

Of course the clip shows potential, but I don't think I ever saw anything like that from him outside of that (there was one clip against Muskegon, I think, that was kind of like that. He didn't score though but it was a great power move to the net). It's important to have that context.

I'm not a hater. Believe me, I'm a huge fan of the big guys (Burns, Byfuglien). I want players like him and Middleton to succeed.

Do you think he will spend the full 4 years at Wisconsin before making the jump?

 

[SprDaVE]

I didn't say Greenway was definitively the rawest player of the draft. I said he might be.

What I mean by that is of the ~80 players I watched (including Kristaps Zile and Colin Grannary, they are raw talents for sure), he is the rawest of them. HOWEVER, I didn't use an absolute because I hadn't watched some of the other players picked, you're right. They could be rawer than him, but I wouldn't know, I didn't watch them.

The fact that he is the rawest of the ~80 players I watched, ~65 were drafted, gives him a decent chance of being one of the rawest of the draft.

Again, I said he might be. If he isn't, he is certainly up there.

Either way, the whole point of me saying any of this was to let you guys know before you saw him that he is nowhere near a finished product. A lot of the attributes used to describe him are not true (yet).

I'll have to go through who you guys picked in the later rounds. I nodded off for a bit (the 2nd round started at 7am for us and if I'm not awake by 5:00 I would sleep through it ).

Of course the clip shows potential, but I don't think I ever saw anything like that from him outside of that (there was one clip against Muskegon, I think, that was kind of like that. He didn't score though but it was a great power move to the net). It's important to have that context.

I'm not a hater. Believe me, I'm a huge fan of the big guys (Burns, Byfuglien). I want players like him and Middleton to succeed.

We, or at least I do, appreciate the comments about prospects a lot of us haven't seen very much of.

Cheers.

 

[Cotton]

We, or at least I do, appreciate the comments about prospects a lot of us haven't seen very much of.

Cheers.

Ditto, the more info the better.

I love what he could become if he pans out, I like this pick a lot.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

well then your whole point to me is mute, because I already saw him play, and you sound way off. What 18 yo is a finished product anyway? Kind of a silly point to try and make. Auston matthews isn't a finished product either

In what way?

Do you think he will spend the full 4 years at Wisconsin before making the jump?

It depends. Wisco is getting a huge influx of talent and just hired an excellent, former NHL, head coach that knows how to get the most out of his players (that said they were awful last year, 4-5 wins total I think, so they have some work to do). There are 6 drafted prospects coming in, and Luke Kunin is already going to be a sophomore.

If everything goes right I'd say 3 years or maybe (a minuscule chance) at 2, but four seems most likely. If he hits his stride there is plenty of reasons to be excited about him.

I can't wait to see him and our 6-foot-6 RD prospect Adam Parsells on a pair together. Oh boy is that going to be tough to play against

Flint also owns his and his brother's OHL rights, but I'm not sure if thats an option for them. I'd think not. The Greenways strike me as kids that can and will excel in college, so I think they picked the best options.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The difference between a Hunter run draft and Lou Lam setting BPA standards and draft criteria priorities.

Babcock loves big strong players so Lou is getting his coach some.

Yeah, clearly the Leafs blew it with Marner, and can now really move on with Greenway and whoever that other tall guy was.

 

[Jeypic]

In what way?

saying he might be the rawest player in the draft. He's not even close to the rawest player the leafs selected in the draft.
You also mentioned his skating being nothing special. Imo, there isn't a player 6'5" or over that can skate as well as he does in the draft. Or move laterally as well as he does. Which you also said he couldn't do.

 

[weems]

saying he might be the rawest player in the draft. He's not even close to the rawest player the leafs selected in the draft.
You also mentioned his skating being nothing special. Imo, there isn't a player 6'5" or over that can skate as well as he does in the draft. Or move laterally as well as he does. Which you also said he couldn't do.

Haha that isnt saying much.
How many guys drafted were 6'5 or taller?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

saying he might be the rawest player in the draft. He's not even close to the rawest player the leafs selected in the draft.
You also mentioned his skating being nothing special. Imo, there isn't a player 6'5" or over that can skate as well as he does in the draft. Or move laterally as well as he does. Which you also said he couldn't do.

Usually when someone talks about how good a skater is, it's not implicitly discriminated by their height. A 6'5" average skater is an average skater.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

saying he might be the rawest player in the draft. He's not even close to the rawest player the leafs selected in the draft.

Someone hasn't read the rest of the thread.

You also mentioned his skating being nothing special. Imo, there isn't a player 6'5" or over that can skate as well as he does in the draft. Or move laterally as well as he does. Which you also said he couldn't do.

No, his skating is nothing special right now. His straight line speed is good, but his lateral movement is weak as is his transition from forwards to backward. You're getting caught up in his size. There are many defensemen above 6'5" that can skate at all. Just because he's 6'5" and has good but not great mobility doesn't mean his skating by itself is special.

There is not one attribute in his skating that you can call special right now. Not one. For his size he has above average speed, but overall his skating is not special right now.

However, I saw Justin Braun transform from a defenseman that can't skate into a defenseman that has excellent speed and technique, both forwards and backwards. It's all about development, and Greenway's mechanics are refined enough that he can develop himself into a powerful skater.

 

[cookie]

I hear that Greenway is raw defensively but has some good puck skills. That sounds a bit like Gardiner which leads me to ask: did he start playing defense recently and/or have his teammates been so bad that he in turn doesn't look that good?

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I hear that Greenway is raw defensively but has some good puck skills. That sounds a bit like Gardiner which leads me to ask: did he start playing defense recently and/or have his teammates been so bad that he in turn doesn't look that good?

When you're on the top pair with Adam Fox and Keller/Bellows/Anderson, you will have possession 90% of the time. You don't get a chance to defend often with them at even strength and if you mess up it looks 10x worse.

He did some good work on the corners and was decent in front of the net but the USNTDP had a wonky PK scheme.

 

[Jeypic]

Someone hasn't read the rest of the thread.



No, his skating is nothing special right now. His straight line speed is good, but his lateral movement is weak as is his transition from forwards to backward. You're getting caught up in his size. There are many defensemen above 6'5" that can skate at all. Just because he's 6'5" and has good but not great mobility doesn't mean his skating by itself is special.

There is not one attribute in his skating that you can call special right now. Not one. For his size he has above average speed, but overall his skating is not special right now.

However, I saw Justin Braun transform from a defenseman that can't skate into a defenseman that has excellent speed and technique, both forwards and backwards. It's all about development, and Greenway's mechanics are refined enough that he can develop himself into a powerful skater.

What part did I not read? When you added the words "not definatively" before calling him the rawest player in the draft?

His transitions are fine. His lateral movement is fine. Take a look at the goal I posted.. He's moving sideways the whole time. He's praised for being incredibly hard to beat one on one for his mobility, matched with his size. His skating is not going to be an issue. It's probably slightly above average, whether it's special or not. With players 6'5" it usually is an issue, so If we're rating his skating, I would say that it is a positive attribute. It definately isn't a negative like you're making it out to be. Can it get better still? Sure.

If there is a knock against him, it's consistency with offence and positioning/poise in his own end. Not skating. And again he's far from the rawest player in the draft. If you said rawest player in the third round.. Maybe. Whole draft? Your hating.

 

[Jeypic]

Usually when someone talks about how good a skater is, it's not implicitly discriminated by their height. A 6'5" average skater is an average skater.

And an above average skater is an above average skater. Match that with 6'5", physicality and decent hands, and you have a solid foundation to build upon.

 

[RyanOhReally]

The more I look into him, interviews and stuff, he seems to be a good kid. Pretty humble for his size and athleticism. You can tell he's the younger brother of a higher touted player.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

What part did I not read? When you added the words "not definatively" before calling him the rawest player in the draft?

I said "might be" and then clarified in one of the later posts. I suggest you go back and see it.

His transitions are fine. His lateral movement is fine. Take a look at the goal I posted.. He's moving sideways the whole time. He's praised for being incredibly hard to beat one on one for his mobility, matched with his size. His skating is not going to be an issue. It's probably slightly above average, whether it's special or not. With players 6'5" it usually is an issue, so If we're rating his skating, I would say that it is a positive attribute. It definately isn't a negative like you're making it out to be. Can it get better still? Sure.

Remember what I said earlier about taking the clip out of context?

You're moving the goal posts. Earlier you attacked my assessment that his skating, on its own, was nothing special. You said, "You also mentioned his skating being nothing special. Imo, there isn't a player 6'5" or over that can skate as well as he does in the draft. Or move laterally as well as he does. Which you also said he couldn't do."

Now you're admitting that his skating is "fine" and "probably slightly above average" (which I disagree with but that's another topic). Sure sounds like nothing special to me...

What I think you meant was his skating COMBINED with his size is special. That's a different argument altogether.

If there is a knock against him, it's consistency with offence and positioning/poise in his own end. Not skating. And again he's far from the rawest player in the draft. If you said rawest player in the third round.. Maybe. Whole draft? Your hating.

Yea his positioning is one of the bigger flaws in his game right now. He could stand to be meaner and more assertive in front of the net as well.

I'm not hating. If you read my follow up response to Number 13 you would have known what I meant when I used the word MAYBE, which you're omitting.

 

[Jeypic]

I said "might be" and then clarified in one of the later posts. I suggest you go back and see it.



Remember what I said earlier about taking the clip out of context?

You're moving the goal posts. Earlier you attacked my assessment that his skating, on its own, was nothing special. You said, "You also mentioned his skating being nothing special. Imo, there isn't a player 6'5" or over that can skate as well as he does in the draft. Or move laterally as well as he does. Which you also said he couldn't do."

Now you're admitting that his skating is "fine" and "probably slightly above average" (which I disagree with but that's another topic). Sure sounds like nothing special to me...

What I think you meant was his skating COMBINED with his size is special. That's a different argument altogether.



Yea his positioning is one of the bigger flaws in his game right now. He could stand to be meaner and more assertive in front of the net as well.

I'm not hating. If you read my follow up response to Number 13 you would have known what I meant when I used the word MAYBE, which you're omitting.

Read the sentence after the one you bolded where I mentioned he's often praised as hard to beat one on one, which is another testament to his lateral movement.

I'm not the one trying to narrow the goal posts here.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Read the sentence after the one you bolded where I mentioned he's often praised as hard to beat one on one, which is another testament to his lateral movement.

I'm not the one trying to narrow the goal posts here.

Who has done this praising? I get my opinions from watching the players, not from other sources (I'm not saying you do, I'm just saying that I haven't looked up anything online about how he is received).

You're moving the goalposts, not narrowing them.

 

[Jeypic]

Who has done this praising? I get my opinions from watching the players, not from other sources (I'm not saying you do, I'm just saying that I haven't looked up anything online about how he is received).

You're moving the goalposts, not narrowing them.

I made two points, you only bolded one, and then faulted me for putting to much emphasis on it. I'd say that's narrowing the goal posts.

Anyways... Here's source since you asked. And I watched him play at the u18's. I also played defense my whole life.

"He has excellent mobility and agility for a player his size. He's got really light, quick feet for a 6'4" defender. That, combined with his big wing span allows him to cover a wide area of ice defensively in a short period of time."
"He might have the potential to be a shutdown defender one day, but Greenway isn't quite there yet. He still has the tendency to get a bit lost when defending in his own zone. He's much better as a one-on-one defender against the rush when he can use his big reach to take away space."http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/201...aft-profile-jd-greenway-james-scouting-report

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I made two points, you only bolded one, and then faulted me for putting to much emphasis on it. I'd say that's narrowing the goal posts.

Let's not play the pronoun game, what are the 2 points you are talking about (you have presented like 50) and what was the one I missed.

Is the one I bolded the one where you basically used a 5 second video clip of Greenway performing a cut he has done once in his life and extrapolating it to his lateral movement in general? If so, then yes, you are putting way too much emphasis on one clip.

Anyways... Here's source since you asked. And I watched him play at the u18's. I also played defense my whole life.

"He has excellent mobility and agility for a player his size. He's got really light, quick feet for a 6'4" defender. That, combined with his big wing span allows him to cover a wide area of ice defensively in a short period of time."
"He might have the potential to be a shutdown defender one day, but Greenway isn't quite there yet. He still has the tendency to get a bit lost when defending in his own zone. He's much better as a one-on-one defender against the rush when he can use his big reach to take away space."http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/201...aft-profile-jd-greenway-james-scouting-report

So he's good at defending one-on-ones because of his big reach. Nothing about lateral movement in there. I've said in here that he is mobile, it is certain skating functions that I have a problem with.

He looked good at the U-18's (as did literally every American), but did you watch him during the USHL season or DP circuit?

Listen, we're just splitting hairs here. I disagree with your assessment and you disagree with mine.

 

[Jeypic]

Let's not play the pronoun game, what are the 2 points you are talking about (you have presented like 50) and what was the one I missed.

Is the one I bolded the one where you basically used a 5 second video clip of Greenway performing a cut he has done once in his life and extrapolating it to his lateral movement in general? If so, then yes, you are putting way too much emphasis on one clip.



So he's good at defending one-on-ones because of his big reach. Nothing about lateral movement in there. I've said in here that he is mobile, it is certain skating functions that I have a problem with.

He looked good at the U-18's (as did literally every American), but did you watch him during the USHL season or DP circuit?

Listen, we're just splitting hairs here. I disagree with your assessment and you disagree with mine.

His excellent mobility, agility and how light he is on his feet wouldn't aid his reach on one on ones? Come on, have you ever played hockey? Put two and two together. Now you have video evidence, and a scouting report to go along with it. Along with my personal opinion. so there's 3 points.

But Ya, I'm the one putting to much emphasis on the clip.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

His excellent mobility, agility and how light he is on his feet wouldn't aid his reach on one on ones?

Okay but that has nothing to do with his lateral movement. Agility/mobility =/= lateral movement.

Come on, have you ever played hockey? Put two and two together. Now you have video evidence, and a scouting report to go along with it. Along with my personal opinion. so there's 3 points.

Its a five second video clip, it means very little. That scouting report is more than questionable in my eyes but even it agrees that Greenway is a very raw talent (something you criticized me for saying). Your opinion is charged with emotion and is that I'm a hater. I don't put much stock into that.

You still haven't answered my question: Did you see Greenway outside of the U-18s?

But Ya, I'm the one putting to much emphasis on the clip.

This doesn't make much sense. You are using a five second clip to prove a blanket statement you made about someones game. That is flawed logic.