2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Part the Fourth (News n' Scores n' Stuff) ‎

[CapitalsCupReality]

Just looking more and more organizationally inept to not realize going in that we'd have to overpay some for Kuzy and Oshie, and hence it'd make more sense to expose MoJo than Schmidt. Isn't it the job of the front office to see around corners, rather than just manage what's in front of their nose? Isn't that why GM's make the big bucks? Not to let Dick Patrick or Ted off the hook, though.

This organization just feels so stale at this point.

By see around corners are you saying “tell the future”? Did anyone here have Kuzy’s demands that high? Felt to me back then that the Caps got bent over....still does to some extent...

 

[maacoshark]

It's fine if you don't like him, but IMO his on-ice performance over the years has made his salary palatable, especially since he was signed as a UFA. He's not a #1 stud type defenseman like Karlsson or Letang and he is limited on the PP, but he's certainly a solid option as a #2 defenseman on almost every team in the league and a #1B on the Capitals.

At the time of his signing he was paid as an elite defenseman. Even now his salary is in the top 20 amongst defensemen. I don't think he is a top 20 defenseman. Carlson is the 86th highest paid. I would say Carlson is a steal. I also don't consider Letang a stud defenseman. Karlsson is great offensively. Don't think I have ever seen a defenseman with his vision. He is average defensively but he has improved in that area a lot.

 

[Todos a la Calle]

What we should've done is protect 4 forwards and 4 d. We would have lost one of majo (who we lost anyway), eller (but probably not given age and salary) or wilson (wouldn't have been happy about that but would rather have schmidt than him)

 

[maacoshark]

What we should've done is protect 4 forwards and 4 d. We would have lost one of majo (who we lost anyway), eller (but probably not given age and salary) or wilson (wouldn't have been happy about that but would rather have schmidt than him)

We could have gone that route and it may have worked out better. If we went that route I'm guessing we would have lost Johansson or Eller. We lost Johansson anyway and Eller wouldn't be missed that much.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

My point is you're making a much bigger deal of this than it really is.

http://www.tsn.ca/vgk-given-permission-to-shop-shipachyov-1.896094

Well, it is a big deal now.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

At the time of his signing he was paid as an elite defenseman. Even now his salary is in the top 20 amongst defensemen. I don't think he is a top 20 defenseman. Carlson is the 86th highest paid. I would say Carlson is a steal. I also don't consider Letang a stud defenseman. Karlsson is great offensively. Don't think I have ever seen a defenseman with his vision. He is average defensively but he has improved in that area a lot.

Letang is a stud defenseman, just rewatch the Pens 2016 Cup run. He is everywhere offensively and defensively. I didn't think they could win the Cup without him last year but they did anyway. These guys can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, while we can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Karlsson is in a class of his own. One of the greatest defensemen since Bobby Orr.

 

[ovikovy817]

http://www.tsn.ca/vgk-given-permission-to-shop-shipachyov-1.896094

Well, it is a big deal now.

Hope he'll come back in KHL before the Olympics. Another good C can't hurt in the lineup.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

At the time of his signing he was paid as an elite defenseman. Even now his salary is in the top 20 amongst defensemen. I don't think he is a top 20 defenseman. Carlson is the 86th highest paid. I would say Carlson is a steal. I also don't consider Letang a stud defenseman. Karlsson is great offensively. Don't think I have ever seen a defenseman with his vision. He is average defensively but he has improved in that area a lot.

 

[twabby]

By see around corners are you saying “tell the future”? Did anyone here have Kuzy’s demands that high? Felt to me back then that the Caps got bent over....still does to some extent...

They should have had an idea of Kuznetsov’s demands sometime before June 17 when the protection lists were submitted. It was almost a month and a half after they were eliminated from the playoffs so GMBM should have had plenty of time to negotiate and figure out Kuznetsov’s likely number. Same with Orlov and Oshie.

IIRC Johansson wouldn’t have been even close to fitting under the cap. I’m not sure why everyone is excusing him for his mistakes at the expansion draft. It was a difficult situation that he handled poorly.

 

[trick9]

https://sinbin.vegas/alternate-reasoning-behind-the-vadim-shipachyov-trade-rumors/

George McPhee continuing to build his reputation among agents.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

https://sinbin.vegas/alternate-reasoning-behind-the-vadim-shipachyov-trade-rumors/

George McPhee continuing to build his reputation among agents.

Can't decide if the person I dislike most in sports is George McFail or Danny Snyder.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Hope he'll come back in KHL before the Olympics. Another good C can't hurt in the lineup.

I want him to stay in the NHL, I don't give a crap about the Olympics now. Russia will win the Olympics anyway.

 

[Hivemind]

http://www.tsn.ca/vgk-given-permission-to-shop-shipachyov-1.896094

Well, it is a big deal now.

They're starting to shop a 30 year old they were going to trade anyway? I'm still confused as to why this is such a big deal to you.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

They're starting to shop a 30 year old they were going to trade anyway? I'm still confused as to why this is such a big deal to you.

This is completely mishandled. They're shopping him just 3 weeks into the season, with only 3 games played in the NHL for Ship. It would make sense if they let him produce for most of the year and then shopped him at the TDL to maximize his value. Ship's value is at its lowest, and apparently the teams in need like Montreal aren't even interested right now.

Bottom line is, if they don't find a suitor and Ship refuses to report to the AHL, they'll mutually agree to terminate the contract and Ship will go back to SKA.

GMGM could be about to lose a good player for nothing.

 

[Hivemind]

This is completely mishandled. They're shopping him just 3 weeks into the season, with only 3 games played in the NHL for Ship. It would make sense if they let him produce for most of the year and then shopped him at the TDL to maximize his value. Ship's value is at its lowest, and apparently the teams in need like Montreal aren't even interested right now.

Bottom line is, if they don't find a suitor and Ship refuses to report to the AHL, they'll mutually agree to terminate the contract and Ship will go back to SKA.

GMGM could be about to lose a good player for nothing.

Shopping now isn't the same as trading now. Mutual termination of contract requires exactly what is says, mutual consent. They aren't going to terminate his contract unless they want to. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Shopping now isn't the same as trading now. Mutual termination of contract requires exactly what is says, mutual consent. They aren't going to terminate his contract unless they want to. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Have you read the article?

"As TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie notes, whether Shipachyov actually reports to Chicago remains to be seen. If he doesn't report, he is likely to be suspended."

"McKenzie notes Shipachyov could also consider a return to the KHL, he was rumoured to be interested in re-joining SKA St. Petersburg when he was assigned to the AHL to start the year."

 

[Hivemind]

Have you read the article?

"As TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie notes, whether Shipachyov actually reports to Chicago remains to be seen. If he doesn't report, he is likely to be suspended."

"McKenzie notes Shipachyov could also consider a return to the KHL, he was rumoured to be interested in re-joining SKA St. Petersburg when he was assigned to the AHL to start the year."

Yes, I read the article. Read what you're quoting. Suspended is very different than mutual termination of contract (it's pretty much the exact opposite, in this scenario). Ship wanting to return to the KHL doesn't magically get him out of his contract, either.

Convenient how you also crop out the two paragraphs before that KHL note:

McKenzie added on Twitter, "On a two-year deal with AAV of $4.5M, that second year may prove to be an impediment to a trade, but we'll see how it plays out. Bottom line for Vegas management/coaches, quite aside from roster squeeze, is Shipachyov has been outplayed by players currently on roster.
"Golden Knights' preference would be for Shipachyov to report to the AHL and use that experience to transition to North American game, but Vegas also realizes, given his age and experience, (that the) player not may interested in doing that. Hence, permission for agent to look around."

You have a much higher opinion of Ship than his play in North America warrants so far.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Yes, I read the article. Read what you're quoting. Suspended is very different than mutual termination of contract (it's pretty much the exact opposite, in this scenario). Ship wanting to return to the KHL doesn't magically get him out of his contract, either.

Convenient how you also crop out the two paragraphs before that KHL note:



You have a much higher opinion of Ship than his play in North America warrants so far.

They've made their opinion on him based on 3 games, and he scored a goal in those 3 games. They never gave him a chance to prove himself. He's a much better player than a lot of the guys they have on the active roster. He played on NHL ice against NHL opponents before at the World Cup last year, and he didn't look out of place against the NHL's best.

So now he probably won't report to the Wolves and he'll ask for his contract to be traded or terminated. In either case, GMGM is losing. Ship can't go the KHL if Vegas won't agree to terminate his contract, he is likely to be stuck in this state for a while.

What they should've done is be patient, put him on the wing if necessary to ease the transition to the NHL. Whatever, I hope they trade Ship the hell out of there, but not to the Canadiens.

 

[maacoshark]

Letang is a stud defenseman, just rewatch the Pens 2016 Cup run. He is everywhere offensively and defensively. I didn't think they could win the Cup without him last year but they did anyway. These guys can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, while we can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Karlsson is in a class of his own. One of the greatest defensemen since Bobby Orr.

Actually he did play very well in the 2016 playoffs but other than that playoff run he has never been consistent especially in his own end.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Actually he did play very well in the 2016 playoffs but other than that playoff run he has never been consistent especially in his own end.

My biggest knock on him is that he gets injured too often. But when he's healthy and on his game, he's almost as good as anyone in the league.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Actually he did play very well in the 2016 playoffs but other than that playoff run he has never been consistent especially in his own end.

I'm not sure I can name more than 3 or 4 better RHD in the league than Letang when he's on and healthy. He's masterful with the puck and he's a possession monster at ES (career ES CF% of ~54%). The big knock on KL is his inability to stay healthy and he can be a bit of a hothead. I'd trade any defenseman on our team for him straight up without thinking twice.

 

[maacoshark]

They've made their opinion on him based on 3 games, and he scored a goal in those 3 games. They never gave him a chance to prove himself. He's a much better player than a lot of the guys they have on the active roster. He played on NHL ice against NHL opponents before at the World Cup last year, and he didn't look out of place against the NHL's best.

So now he probably won't report to the Wolves and he'll ask for his contract to be traded or terminated. In either case, GMGM is losing. Ship can't go the KHL if Vegas won't agree to terminate his contract, he is likely to be stuck in this state for a while.

What they should've done is be patient, put him on the wing if necessary to ease the transition to the NHL. Whatever, I hope they trade Ship the hell out of there, but not to the Canadiens.

Why don't you want him traded to the Canadians?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They should have had an idea of Kuznetsov’s demands sometime before June 17 when the protection lists were submitted. It was almost a month and a half after they were eliminated from the playoffs so GMBM should have had plenty of time to negotiate and figure out Kuznetsov’s likely number. Same with Orlov and Oshie.

IIRC Johansson wouldn’t have been even close to fitting under the cap. I’m not sure why everyone is excusing him for his mistakes at the expansion draft. It was a difficult situation that he handled poorly.

Shoulda coulda woulda....we got screwed by Kuzy’s deal. Now all he has to do is earn it to prove it was worth jettisoning his former teammates.

I missed all the ‘excusing’ you’re referring to. Could thing have been done differently, sure? Could things have gone better or hell, even worse, yeah I think so. Blind criticism with zero clue as to what was going on behind the scenes just doesn’t do it for me.

 

[twabby]

Shoulda coulda woulda....we got screwed by Kuzy’s deal. Now all he has to do is earn it to prove it was worth jettisoning his former teammates.

I missed all the ‘excusing’ you’re referring to. Could thing have been done differently, sure? Could things have gone better or hell, even worse, yeah I think so. Blind criticism with zero clue as to what was going on behind the scenes just doesn’t do it for me.

Kuznetsov's deal was certainly higher than most people expected but again it shouldn't have come as a surprise to MacLellan on June 17 after a full month and change to negotiate with his agent. He should have known the threat of the KHL was real and to plan accordingly. I think it's reasonable to guess that if MacLellan knew Kuznetsov's, Orlov's, and Oshie's contract demands he would have had a different expansion draft strategy. The fact that he apparently didn't know these values speaks poorly of him. As marcel snapshot mentioned in his post, it's his job to see these things coming and that's why he's paid a lot of money.

It's not just the expansion draft but his mismanagement of the coaching situation IMO. Aside from the lack of Xs and Os and tactical adjustments in the playoffs, Trotz doesn't seem to have a good sense of the locker room especially when it comes to their playoff failures. As you're well aware I'm not a huge intangibles person but in this case it seems like a glaring issue that would affect the whole team's on-ice performance and it's something that GMBM hasn't really addressed other than to say he disagrees with Trotz.

To be honest, aside from insane scenarios GMBM's offseason was just about as bad as it could get IMO.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Why don't you want him traded to the Canadians?

Because I live in Montreal and I've grown to hate the Canadiens and their fans and their management. They don't deserve any success.