2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Part the Fourth (News n' Scores n' Stuff) ‎

[Hivemind]

They didn't just get "some guys that could play at the NHL level," they got five first-round picks, one of which turned into the franchise's best defenseman of the late 90s/early 2000s. The trickle down assets of letting Stevens walk lasted 25+ years after he left Washington. Heck, Jonas Siegenthaler is part of the trickle down effects of that trade (Washington used a pick they received from trading Erat to Arizona as part of trading up to select Siegenthaler). Stevens is obviously a very special player, but unlike some of the other historic blunders in Capitals history, the Capitals at least received fair payment that helped paid benefits to the team for decades afterwards.

 

[Raikkonen]

Mojo placed on IR for concussion suffered on 11/1

How many is that for him? I thought he had some before but I may be wrong

At least 2 by my recollection.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I guess you liked the move since you’re singing the praises of 25 years worth of “returns”. I’d rather have the HOFer and a Cup or two.

How about, they got 3 pretty good D and 1 pretty good goalie, all with significant warts and varying levels of disappointment as players, making us wish they had been better?

 

[brachyrynchos]

Stevens provided value to Washington for about 20 years after he was sent to St. Louis

Graphic from 2012, so we'll ignore what happened with those active assets afterwards.

But the point being, if they don't let Stevens sign with StL, they never get Gonchar or Witt. Gonchar turned into some of the Boudreau-era defensemen (and as maligned as they were, they were at least bona-fide NHL defenders for a few years and helped the team return to the playoffs). Witt turned into Varlamov.

I remember Witt missing a year really held him back, he couldn't play at all at the time, was in limbo if i recall. I remember Caps drafting Boynton, but he never signed with us (BOS). I envisioned the two of them, with Slaney and Woolley as our future core, with Baumgartner and Schlegel filling in the gaps. But most of all, thanks for the chart! I'd love to see a separate Stevens trade thread, endless discussion, so many names and what might've/could've been.

 

[Hivemind]

I guess you liked the move since you’re singing the praises of 25 years worth of “returns”. I’d rather have the HOFer and a Cup or two.

How about, they got 3 pretty good D and 1 pretty good goalie, all with significant warts and varying levels of disappointment as players, making us wish they had been better?

I'll break it down to the level a grade schooler can understand.

Scenario A:
Giving away an excellent player for a fair return

Scenario B:
Giving away an excellent player for a terrible return


Which is the worse move?



(And this isn't even getting into the limo incident, after which it would have been a PR disaster to make Stevens the highest paid D in NHL history)

 

[Devil Dancer]

FF was drafted with the pick they got for Varly, right? So trading Stevens eventually laid the groundwork for the Erat trade?

Case closed!

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Stevens provided value to Washington for about 20 years after he was sent to St. Louis

Graphic from 2012, so we'll ignore what happened with those active assets afterwards.

But the point being, if they don't let Stevens sign with StL, they never get Gonchar or Witt. Gonchar turned into some of the Boudreau-era defensemen (and as maligned as they were, they were at least bona-fide NHL defenders for a few years and helped the team return to the playoffs). Witt turned into Varlamov.

It made sense and it still makes sense to let go of Stevens for 5 first round picks, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he stayed in Washington. History can't be written backwards but it's an interesting thought experiment.

 

[brachyrynchos]

At least my #3 jersey didn't go to waste,Tatarinov and later Cote.

 

[Corby78]

chasing the Stevens picks 25 years is a strawman. Its not like would have been short all those players if we kept stevens. We would have filled the roster with other players through other means. We got 5 picks, 2 of which panned out. One as a solid offensive defesman who cost us a game 7, and another who just was. Also roster moves can't be looked at in a vacuum ignoring the current salary situation of the team. We were compensated decently for Majo considering our cap situation. Take the cap out and we got robbed.

 

[brachyrynchos]

chasing the Stevens picks 25 years is a strawman. Its not like would have been short all those players if we kept stevens. We would have filled the roster with other players through other means. We got 5 picks, 2 of which panned out. One as a solid offensive defesman who cost us a game 7, and another who just was. Also roster moves can't be looked at in a vacuum ignoring the current salary situation of the team. We were compensated decently for Majo considering our cap situation. Take the cap out and we got robbed.

Losing Stevens hurt this franchise, they didn't want to pay him, while I vaguely remember the circumstances, I don't remember him asking for ridiculous pay, either. I openly admit that hindsight us 20/20, but this franchise never got equal return for him, and he has never been replaced since. Seeing him become what he became in Jersey is bittersweet, Him, Daneyko, and Neidermayer, was something great, we easily could've had better. The front offce was too stingy. And just my 2 cents, but the common link between then and now is still, Dick Patrick.

 

[Hivemind]

Losing Stevens hurt this franchise, they didn't want to pay him, while I vaguely remember the circumstances, I don't remember him asking for ridiculous pay, either. I openly admit that hindsight us 20/20, but this franchise never got equal return for him, and he has never been replaced since. Seeing him become what he became in Jersey is bittersweet, Him, Daneyko, and Neidermayer, was something great, we easily could've had better. The front offce was too stingy. And just my 2 cents, but the common link between then and now is still, Dick Patrick.

The contract Stevens signed with St. Louis was the highest paid contract for a defenseman in NHL history at that point. It helped lead to rising salaries across the league, eventually leading to the 94-95 lockout. Pollin had no intention of signing a player to that kind of contract, even less so a player involved in the limo incident shortly before that. All four players in the limo incident would be gone by 1992.

Five first rounds picks is one hell of a compensation package, even if the Capitals shitty drafting in the 90s didn't lead to successful picks in all cases. Judging all those picks in hindsight is tough.

Obviously losing Stevens was a huge blunder from an on-ice perspective, especially knowing the success he would enjoy in New Jersey afterwards. But that decision was driven more from off-ice issues than on-ice. Tough situation all around.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'll break it down to the level a grade schooler can understand.

Scenario A:
Giving away an excellent player for a fair return

Scenario B:
Giving away an excellent player for a terrible return


Which is the worse move?



(And this isn't even getting into the limo incident, after which it would have been a PR disaster to make Stevens the highest paid D in NHL history)

If you’re going to attempt to be condescending at least entertain me. I’ll take C) the HOFer and a Cup or two instead. You’ve taken this from fun little joke to boring. You’re like the William H Macey in The Cooler, only for message boards. By all means though, carry on.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Thanks, everyone, for taking us for a stroll down depressing memory lane.

 

[brachyrynchos]

The contract Stevens signed with St. Louis was the highest paid contract for a defenseman in NHL history at that point. It helped lead to rising salaries across the league, eventually leading to the 94-95 lockout. Pollin had no intention of signing a player to that kind of contract, even less so a player involved in the limo incident shortly before that. All four players in the limo incident would be gone by 1992.

Five first rounds picks is one hell of a compensation package, even if the Capitals ****ty drafting in the 90s didn't lead to successful picks in all cases. Judging all those picks in hindsight is tough.

Obviously losing Stevens was a huge blunder from an on-ice perspective, especially knowing the success he would enjoy in New Jersey afterwards. But that decision was driven more from off-ice issues than on-ice. Tough situation all around.

Thanks, now that I think about it, the Blues offered him a (group 2?) contract, and the Caps didn't want to match and chose compensation (picks), and I hope you can help me out here, but wasn't compensation based on salary? I mean, wasn't compensation based on $ amount? If the Blues offered less, compensation would be less. Thanks.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Stevens provided value to Washington for about 20 years after he was sent to St. Louis

Graphic from 2012, so we'll ignore what happened with those active assets afterwards.

But the point being, if they don't let Stevens sign with StL, they never get Gonchar or Witt. Gonchar turned into some of the Boudreau-era defensemen (and as maligned as they were, they were at least bona-fide NHL defenders for a few years and helped the team return to the playoffs). Witt turned into Varlamov.

From my perspective, I'll keep Stevens. Of that group the only player I liked was Witt. Gonchar was soft, however did contribute to the 1998 run. Then there is of course losing FF, so I'll take a cup or two with an elite player like Stevens any day. As for rising salaries and the lockout, that was going to happen eventually.

 

[brachyrynchos]

From my perspective, I'll keep Stevens. Of that group the only player I liked was Witt. a cup or two with an elite player like Stevens any day. As for rising salaries and the lockout, that was going to happen eventually.

Yeah, I have mixed feelings about Gonchar, he was good, but seemed expendable, Witt, couldn't play, I thought it was $ thing, was it somehow related to lockout of '94? For some reason I still remember him not being to play anywhere at the time. That stoppage really set this league back, the Rangers had just won the cup, Gretzky & Mario were synonymous with hockey, and the sport itself was growing, then it all changed.

 

[Hivemind]

Thanks, now that I think about it, the Blues offered him a (group 2?) contract, and the Caps didn't want to match and chose compensation (picks), and I hope you can help me out here, but wasn't compensation based on salary? I mean, wasn't compensation based on $ amount? If the Blues offered less, compensation would be less. Thanks.

Not exactly sure how RFA contracts worked back then, but today RFA compensation is tied to the amount on the offer sheet. I assume it was the same back then. Five firsts has always been the highest tier of compensation.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Not exactly sure how RFA contracts worked back then, but today RFA compensation is tied to the amount on the offer sheet. I assume it was the same back then. Five firsts has always been the highest tier of compensation.

Thanks, I'm trying to remember the specifics, I'm a bit of a "stickler" for stuff like that. I do know that a year (?) after signing Stevens, the Blues signed Shanahan, and as compensation, New Jersey was offered both Brindamour and Cujo (amongst other offers), Jersey refused and Lamiorello got who he wanted, Stevens.

 

[RaindanceMaggie]

lol, the year we finally might move over in the first round and Tampa is slapping teams left/right

 

[ovikovy817]

Brooks Laich with his first point of the season

btw, maybe a mod can change the title to 17/18?

 

[brachyrynchos]

Brooks Laich with his first point of the season

btw, maybe a mod can change the title to 17/18?

Good for Laich, happy to see him getting some playing time. Once the injury bug hit him, his body just kept breaking down, and he couldn't keep up anymore, he was good when he was healthy, put up decent numbers and was pretty versatile regarding where he can play in the lineup, good middle 6 guy. Didn't we get him as part of the Bondra trade?

 

[brachyrynchos]

lol, the year we finally might move over in the first round and Tampa is slapping teams left/right

Yeah, Tampa looks good this season, 13-2-2 at the top of the East. It looks like they aren't allowing alot of goals, either.

 

[g00n]

New thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...k-part-the-2nd-news-n-scores-n-stuff.2409147/