OT: 2015 Redskins Part I: Building America's Football Capital (0-0-0)

[Jacoby4HOF66]

The thing that makes me look at Shanahan's comments with great skepticism is how he's clearly painting himself as a blameless sacrificial lamb. That's total nonsense. There's a clear bias and self-serving interest as he tries to re-invent his damaged image. I'm sure there's a kernel of truth he's built around; I'm also sure this isn't exactly accurate.

I didn't get that impression from that interview. Kevin Sheehan and Thom Loverro asked him questions and Shanahan answered them. And considering everything before last season was labled as Shanahan's fault, I don't fault Shanahan the opportunity to set the record straight. Was Shanahan blameless? Hardly, but he was dealing with a rookie QB, with a big opinion of himself, who was enabled by the owner of the team. Recipe for disaster.

Kevin Sheehan said yesterday on his show that he had been trying for a long time to get Shanahan to agree to an interview, and Shanahan always turned him down. Sheehan did say that during the summer before last year, while asking Shanahan for an interview, Sheehan asked Shanahan how he thought last season would work out with Gruden and Griffin. Sheehan said Shanahan told him that if Gruden tries to run a drop back offense with Griffin, with no elements of the 50 series offense as an aid for Griffin, that things won't go well offensively. Because the only pass Griffin can throw is the deep ball. And Griffin will get pounded because Griffin can't read defenses and everyone (media and fans) will blame the offensive line. If true, that Shanahan told Sheehan that, he nailed it.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Right, but how much of that was enabled or even possibly started by Snyder? That's the question. When you have the owner meddling with the handling of the QB, and the QB going to the coach in a overt or covert display of "this is what your boss wants", then you have real problems as an organization because the owner just totally blew up the chain of command between the QB and the coach. It fits precisely with the rumors we heard.

Even if Robert felt the way he did, I view that as potentially natural. Of course he's going to wonder about it, and it's normal for him to talk to his confidants about it. But the correct reaction would have been for Snyder to respect the hierarchy he himself set up and allay Robert's fears with some pep talk, and then discuss the issue with Shanahan. Snyder gummed up the whole system by being too close to Robert and undermining his own coach. If we assume Robert talked to his family/camp, wouldn't he also have talked to Snyder who is the one person in his "campe" who actually had the power to do something about it? I think absolutely so.

And like beef said, Shanahan is probably not totally blameless in this, either.

In the end what does it matter? With 2 vastly different NFL head coaches we see the same results. Poor QB play by Griffin and drama in the media. And what is the common denominator? Griffin.

My personal feelings on Griffin aside, as a fan of the Skins I desperately wish for the magic of 2012 to return, but that Griffin is gone forever. Whether he feels this way on his own, or he was talked into it by the jock sniffing owner and/or RG2, Griffin wants to be the next Aaron Rodgers. Shanahan said in his interview he felt it would take 4-5 years to develop Griffin into that type of QB. When you take injuries and drama into account Griffin is going into, maybe, year 3 of Shanahan's development timetable. Hard to see Griffin developing into that type of QB in Washington, if he ever does.

 

[g00n]

In the end what does it matter? With 2 vastly different NFL head coaches we see the same results. Poor QB play by Griffin and drama in the media. And what is the common denominator? Griffin.

My personal feelings on Griffin aside, as a fan of the Skins I desperately wish for the magic of 2012 to return, but that Griffin is gone forever. Whether he feels this way on his own, or he was talked into it by the jock sniffing owner and/or RG2, Griffin wants to be the next Aaron Rodgers. Shanahan said in his interview he felt it would take 4-5 years to develop Griffin into that type of QB. When you take injuries and drama into account Griffin is going into, maybe, year 3 of Shanahan's development timetable. Hard to see Griffin developing into that type of QB in Washington, if he ever does.

The common factor even prior to RG3 has been Snyder. This fits his reported M.O. perfectly. It matters because we have a coach and QB carousel that's been addressed in nearly every conceivable way, and people are constantly wondering what the problem is.

It's Snyder.

Griffin just turned 25. He was 22 or 23 when the Shanahan and Snyder stuff went down. It's hard to blame a guy barely old enough to drink for not being independent and politically savvy enough to handle some of the most powerful egos in sports and business trying to manipulating him, while others either blow smoke up his ass or tear him down.

So again, the question is do we even really know what Robert wants, or are we just going by snippets of what's been said in the media, and has rippled out from interference by Snyder? It matters because the answer reflects on the "franchise QB" we mortgaged our future to draft, and every coaching or personnel move related to that situation, right down to the front office and head coach decisions, when/if Gruden manages to play out his contract.

Gruden, RG3, or both will probably be gone before that. RG3 has a contract issue coming up, and the team needs to decide what to do with him, and what that means for the rest of the team. If owner meddling is a perpetual factor then Snyder will likely meddle in that decision, too, and the Shanahan story might just repeat itself in the form of Jay Gruden exit interviews on 980.

 

[RandyHolt]

That is a good point Goon, for ALL the talk of RG3 and his huge ego, he was dealing with Dan and Mike's ego's, which dare I think may be bigger. Let's throw Gruden into the mix, and even Kyle.

RG3 is the kid, they are supposed to be the responsible ones.

Even though let's face it, men never really grow up.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I am not so quick to absolve Griffin of blame because of his age. When he was drafted it was said he was mature for his age, raised by military parents. Griffin himself said he respected the "chain of command" based on his parents and his upbringing. Clearly that was a lie.

Regardless, it appears Griffin is now broken and the prospects of fixing him don't look good.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think it's extremely likely that any other franchise handles Griffin more effectively.

 

[ChibiPooky]

So Snyder's back to his meddling ways (didn't even last until the draft... lol). IMO that means McCloughan is a dead man walking and just doesn't know it yet. Nobody in that organization has any real power except Snyder, and the smarter the football guy, the faster he's going to run up against a (multiple) Snyder decision(s) that he disagrees with. I give it two years maximum before both McCloughan and Gruden are gone.

 

[EroCaps]

I switched to being a Texans fan because of Snyder after what went down in 2013. Just fed up. I live in Texas nowadays anyway. I guess I'd be unable to if I still lived in DC, and I'd just sit around being irritated, but all the stuff got too much for me last year and it wasn't as hard to switch as I thought it would be. I mean, not rooting for Washington was easy. Having my heart in it when I try to root for Houston isn't, but I'll keep trying.

It's pretty drastic, I know--after 30+ years of rooting for Washington. I didn't make the decision without a lot of thought. But I'm so much less irritated now. I'm a much happier person. My psychologist is a lot poorer now.

It all starts at the top.

If Snyder sells the team before I die, I definitely will immediately return.

I'm waiting for an expansion team to get in on the ground floor with another squad as my 1b.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

So Snyder's back to his meddling ways (didn't even last until the draft... lol). IMO that means McCloughan is a dead man walking and just doesn't know it yet. Nobody in that organization has any real power except Snyder, and the smarter the football guy, the faster he's going to run up against a (multiple) Snyder decision(s) that he disagrees with. I give it two years maximum before both McCloughan and Gruden are gone.

If GMSM is gone in two years, so is the rest of the fanbase. I've never seen the Redskins faithful this fed up with the team. This is Snyder's last chance, in my opinion.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So Snyder's back to his meddling ways (didn't even last until the draft... lol). IMO that means McCloughan is a dead man walking and just doesn't know it yet. Nobody in that organization has any real power except Snyder, and the smarter the football guy, the faster he's going to run up against a (multiple) Snyder decision(s) that he disagrees with. I give it two years maximum before both McCloughan and Gruden are gone.

Yeah. That's what I've learned this week. Glue might be the right man for the job, but it's not gonna matter because Snyder will ruin everything. As always. The small shred of hope is hire gave me is vanished.

I switched to being a Texans fan because of Snyder after what went down in 2013. Just fed up. I live in Texas nowadays anyway. I guess I'd be unable to if I still lived in DC, and I'd just sit around being irritated, but all the stuff got too much for me last year and it wasn't as hard to switch as I thought it would be. I mean, not rooting for Washington was easy. Having my heart in it when I try to root for Houston isn't, but I'll keep trying.

It's pretty drastic, I know--after 30+ years of rooting for Washington. I didn't make the decision without a lot of thought. But I'm so much less irritated now. I'm a much happier person. My psychologist is a lot poorer now.

It all starts at the top.

If Snyder sells the team before I die, I definitely will immediately return.

I don't blame you. If someone had asked me a couple years ago if I'd be OK with the franchise moving away, if a new team would appear a couple years later, I'd have said hell no.

Now? Hell yes. So long as Snyder is owner, the Redskins franchise we all fell in love with is dead anyway; we are rooting for an empty husk disguised as that team. It's gone. Bury the team in Las Vegas or LA. Let Snyder continue to defile its once-upon-a-time lovely corpse out there.

 

[g00n]

We are rooting for tradition at this point. It's really depressing when it isn't tragically hilarious.

 

[RandyHolt]

I still won't consider turning in my fan card based on Mike's likely lies and saving face.

Dan made me draft is getting old and there is no proof that is true.

His now famous radio interview, did he talk about defense or special teams? He was the head coach yet the discussion was almost solely on QB selections.

Ironically RG3 and our playoff run featuring him was the only good thing that happened in his tenure, and he appears to want to treat it as a negative.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, it sure went better than staking his entire legacy on John ****ing Beck

 

[g00n]

Watching the combine OL sprints and this guy jumped out at me even before I found out he was the fastest one. Projects 2nd or 3rd round and can play LT or RT.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1880853/jake-fisher

From video looks like he would be great in a zone running scheme or any offense that requires downfield speed or sideline to sideline mobility, but may need more technique and a little more bulk (6'6", 300lb already) to pass block in the NFL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lets draft him .

 

[g00n]

Just watched Terry Poole from SDSU run and that was impressive, as was Marpet but want to see more. Collins also looked better in drills than on film.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I still won't consider turning in my fan card based on Mike's likely lies and saving face.

Dan made me draft is getting old and there is no proof that is true.

His now famous radio interview, did he talk about defense or special teams? He was the head coach yet the discussion was almost solely on QB selections.

Ironically RG3 and our playoff run featuring him was the only good thing that happened in his tenure, and he appears to want to treat it as a negative.

Did you listen to the interview? He answered the questions he was asked, the questions the vast majority of people listening wanted to hear answers to. Say what you want about Shanahan, but he had a clear path to develop Griffin that showed more than promise in 2012. It can be debated until the cows come home how that development path was sabotaged, but it clearly was.

I do find it interesting that it was said things would be different after Shanahan was gone. Allen said it, players eluded to it, hell Haslett was going to be "unshackled". How did that work out? Last year was as big, if not bigger, debacle than 2013. Can't blame it on Shanahan.

Moving forward, what's to look forward to? Based on Gruden's comments on Griffin I expect the 5th year option on Griffin to be picked up. Also, McClou will keep his head down and focus on his job. Spend the next couple seasons staying sober and proving himself again then looking for a way out. So long as Snyder owns the team the Redskins will be nothing more than a place for the unproven and marginal to get a chance and a nice pay day for those coming to the end of their respective NFL careers.

 

[g00n]

I was thinking last night the best hope there is comes from McG's ability to cobble together a squad that's more loyal to him, the team, and the coaches as people rather than Snyder as an owner. It sounds far-fetched, but it's possible. And the big question mark in that situation would be...RG3. Not sure how that plays out. But a team full of dedicated character guys who are grateful to McG for being drafted or selected and loyal to each other (like a Patriots type of tribe mentality) might be immune to Snyder's effects. But Gruden is no Belichick, I don't think. At least not right now.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Do you guys actually watch the combine?

 

[g00n]

Do you guys actually watch the combine?

Not religiously. If it's on and I'm flipping channels maybe.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I was thinking last night the best hope there is comes from McG's ability to cobble together a squad that's more loyal to him, the team, and the coaches as people rather than Snyder as an owner. It sounds far-fetched, but it's possible. And the big question mark in that situation would be...RG3. Not sure how that plays out. But a team full of dedicated character guys who are grateful to McG for being drafted or selected and loyal to each other (like a Patriots type of tribe mentality) might be immune to Snyder's effects. But Gruden is no Belichick, I don't think. At least not right now.

It would be fantastic for McClou to be able to do that, it would also be fantastic if McClou turned out to be more than just a player personnel guy, that he actually takes charge of the team after a year getting acclimated. But past history says otherwise. The only period of success was under Gibbs Part Duh. That was a 4 year stretch where the future of the team was heavily mortgaged in order to give Snyder's hero one last run in the NFL.

Save for Gibbs, Snyder has had a couple opportunities with credible NFL people and every opportunity ended in failure. After what happened with Shanahan I have little faith Snyder will allow true NFL people to run his franchise properly.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Do you guys actually watch the combine?

I never have. The only time I could tolerate watching those drills is when I played and those days are long gone.

 

[g00n]

Mannion from Oregon St. looked interesting at QB

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Mannion from Oregon St. looked interesting at QB

I think I remember Mayock having good things to say about him during the Senior Bowl.

Ideal scenario drafting a QB is Cousins as the back up and someone like Mannion is picked up in the late rounds for development.

 

[Capitlols]

Combine always bring back this gif: