2014 Free Agency drags on ...

[theIceWookie]

Both are important.

Yep.

As is making sure we don't unnecessarily overwhelm our developing and highly talented youngsters.

RIelly and Gardiner have ONLY a combined 240 NHL games experience. Does letting them take over the defense really sound like that smart of an idea?

You don't trade a player because he MIGHT become expendable, you trade him when he is. LA didn't trade Jack Johnson until Slava Voynov proved he could run a PP unit. Richards/Carter weren't traded UNTIL Giroux made it obvious he was ready for more time.

Trading Phaneuf before the Gardiner/Rielly are truly ready is a great way to continue prolonging the rebuild. I honestly can't believe we are even having this discussion. You'd think Leaf fans would have learned by now and might look at the absolute awful time the Oilers keep having by throwing high end draft players into the thick of things before they are ready.

 

[shakes]

Wouldnt be a bad idea if we are sellers at the deadline

Season hasn't even started and you want to sell already. This place never changes.

 

[RLF]

Yep.

As is making sure we don't unnecessarily overwhelm our developing and highly talented youngsters.

RIelly and Gardiner have ONLY a combined 240 NHL games experience. Does letting them take over the defense really sound like that smart of an idea?

You don't trade a player because he MIGHT become expendable, you trade him when he is. LA didn't trade Jack Johnson until Slava Voynov proved he could run a PP unit. Richards/Carter weren't traded UNTIL Giroux made it obvious he was ready for more time.

Trading Phaneuf before the Gardiner/Rielly are truly ready is a great way to continue prolonging the rebuild. I honestly can't believe we are even having this discussion. You'd think Leaf fans would have learned by now and might look at the absolute awful time the Oilers keep having by throwing high end draft players into the thick of things before they are ready.

No one said let Gardiner/Rielly "take over" the D. It is suggested to move forward with them and pairing them with vets and see what they can do plus getting return for Dion.

Voynov was hardly proven at that point, he was younger than Gardiner is now when Johnson was traded, with less games played then Gardiner now and in his first NHL season. Johnson was traded because the Kings were tired of waiting for him to develop and wanted scoring up-front. They got Carter, the Kings won the cup (2X now), so the trade worked out pretty well without getting a D in return and it didn`t seem to hurt Voynov or Doughty`s development. LA moving forward with Doughty/Voynov, seems to have been the correct move. 2 Cups should be proof enough.

All the players you mention were traded at 25 years old or younger. Phaneuf is going on 30 and the Leafs arguably have more talented young D depth than LA had when they traded Johnson. Voynov and Doughty were only 22 when the Kings made that trade.

Carter/Richards trade has nothing to do with developing d-men. But since it was brought up, moving them didn't hurt the development of Giroux(just turned 23 at the time of the trade) or the players they acquired in Simmonds(22), Voracek(21), B.Schenn(19)...who became part of a very young Flyers forward group.

Won't even comment on trying to compare EDM to Toronto's situation.

The only D comparison you have is LA...who have since won 2 cups with talented, relatively unproven young d-men(Doughty, Voynov, Martinez) when they pulled the trigger on the deal. They had vets to pair them with(Scuderi, Greene,Mitchell), which the Leafs also now have.
I wonder if LA has learned yet not to throw young inexperienced D into the fray. The Bruins should hold back Hamilton, The Islanders Hamonic and DeHaan, the Jets Trouba, the Rangers screwed up McDonaugh and Staal, the Canadiens blew it with Subban...when will these guys learn not to give young D real ice time?

 

[Offspring]

Just a quick question...

I was poking around the Leafs upcoming TV Schedule; http://www.nhl.com/ice/schedulebyseason.htm?team=TOR

and under networks, I'm seeing a lot of 'TVA Network'...what is that? I'm also seeing a lot of blank spaces, will those be broadcast at all? Or maybe it means it's undecided? It seems to me a good half of the season will either not be broadcast or on a channel I don't think I have...

 

[SprDaVE]

Just a quick question...

I was poking around the Leafs upcoming TV Schedule; http://www.nhl.com/ice/schedulebyseason.htm?team=TOR

and under networks, I'm seeing a lot of 'TVA Network'...what is that? I'm also seeing a lot of blank spaces, will those be broadcast at all? Or maybe it means it's undecided? It seems to me a good half of the season will either not be broadcast or on a channel I don't think I have...

TVA is a French Quebec channel, similar to a CTV or a CityTV type network. They bolstered their Sports section and obviously won a bid to broadcast games.

As for the empty spaces, I think it's just a mistake. Leafs will be on TV on some channel, whether it's Leafs TV or TSN or whatever.

 

[theIceWookie]

No one said let Gardiner/Rielly "take over" the D. It is suggested to move forward with them and pairing them with vets and see what they can do plus getting return for Dion.

The only D comparison you have is LA...who have since won 2 cups with talented, relatively unproven young d-men(Doughty, Voynov, Martinez) when they pulled the trigger on the deal. They had vets to pair them with(Scuderi, Greene,Mitchell), which the Leafs also now have.
I wonder if LA has learned yet not to throw young inexperienced D into the fray. The Bruins should hold back Hamilton, The Islanders Hamonic and DeHaan, the Jets Trouba, the Rangers screwed up McDonaugh and Staal, the Canadiens blew it with Subban...when will these guys learn not to give young D real ice time?

The 37 year old Robidas? The third pairing all his career Polak? The lumbering PP only Franson? That's a great way to insulate them...Trading Phaneuf and letting Gardiner and Rielly run with what we have after Phaneuf is the quickest way to ruin them, and you're examples actually prove MY POINT.

Hamilton had Chara to work with, not to mention Seidenberg and Boychuk. That's great insulation. Trouba had Enstrom, Byfuglien until he opened up space to move him up, Subban had Markov. McDonagh had Girardi and a much more experienced Staal. Staal had Girardi and a Roszival in his prime.

Hamonic you might actually have a point with, but exceptions exist, and really since when do we want to model ourselves after the Islanders management decisions?

I will not back down on this. Trading Phaneuf could be the single stupidest decision management could make at this point in time. All it serves to do is put two young developing dmen in a position that is going to put entirely too much pressure on them, before they are ready for it.

Trade Phaneuf in a year if they both break out, or better yet in two, but now? You couldn't possibly make a stupider decision. The lunacy of some fans continues to baffle me...

 

[Deebo]

I'm also seeing a lot of blank spaces, will those be broadcast at all? Or maybe it means it's undecided? It seems to me a good half of the season will either not be broadcast or on a channel I don't think I have...

All the games that are blank are on the regional broadcast nights (Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri). Those games will be split between TSN, Sportnet and LeafsTV. The breakdown just might not be decided upon yet.

 

[Lifeisnice]

Season hasn't even started and you want to sell already. This place never changes.

Key words were "if" and "deadline".

 

[613Leafer]

Season hasn't even started and you want to sell already. This place never changes.

To be fair, the Leafs have missed the playoffs for 8 of the past 9 seasons, and have only been sellers once or twice in that span. The team would be in better shape today had they been sellers in 7-8 of those seasons.

If they're not in a solid position come the deadline, I'd like to see them sell assets. Even earlier in training campe or in the Fall, if there's a good deal, even for futures as opposed to a "hockey trade", I'd be willing to move anybody IF it made sense (i.e. don't sell guys just for the sake of selling them, but if you can get very very good value for a player, even if that value won't pay off THIS season, I would likely do the deal).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Personally our best course of action to be to use the market to our advantage. For example, a potential course of action would be to trade Cody Franson (selling), but afterwards acquiring a good replacement through FA (Tallinder, Salo, McBain, etc.) or trade (Oduya, Kindl, etc.) which would be a buying move.

Essentially we acquire high assets for a player (selling), but by taking advantage of the market we acquire a replacement for fewer to no assets who can easily replace them or even upgrade upon them (buying).

McBain would be the best since we get so much out of good players who are struggling and could use revitalization in their careers (Raymond last year, Booth this year). Oduya would be a good option because Chicago just needs to get cap space and he would come at a drastically reduced price (top 4 player at a similar price to Franson). Kindl would also be a good option because his value is at an all time low but like McBain is a good player and could just need a place to turn it around. We'd just need to trade for him instead signing him. Salo, Tallinder, Morris and even guys like Sarich, Komi, Jovanovski are also all players in the market that are still decent NHLers.

 

[Lifeisnice]

Personally our best course of action to be to use the market to our advantage. For example, a potential course of action would be to trade Cody Franson (selling), but afterwards acquiring a good replacement through FA (Tallinder, Salo, McBain, etc.) or trade (Oduya, Kindl, etc.) which would be a buying move.

Essentially we acquire high assets for a player (selling), but by taking advantage of the market we acquire a replacement for fewer to no assets who can easily replace them or even upgrade upon them (buying).

McBain would be the best since we get so much out of good players who are struggling and could use revitalization in their careers (Raymond last year, Booth this year). Oduya would be a good option because Chicago just needs to get cap space and he would come at a drastically reduced price (top 4 player at a similar price to Franson). Kindl would also be a good option because his value is at an all time low but like McBain is a good player and could just need a place to turn it around. We'd just need to trade for him instead signing him. Salo, Tallinder, Morris and even guys like Sarich, Komi, Jovanovski are also all players in the market that are still decent NHLers.

I agree with the point you are trying to make, but Komi should never wear a leafs uniform again

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I agree with the point you are trying to make, but Komi should never wear a leafs uniform again

I'm just giving examples of players still out there that are still NHL worthy. I knew he would be the last guy on the list of who we'd, but he's still a 6/7 guy at the worst.

 

[RLF]

The 37 year old Robidas? The third pairing all his career Polak? The lumbering PP only Franson? That's a great way to insulate them...Trading Phaneuf and letting Gardiner and Rielly run with what we have after Phaneuf is the quickest way to ruin them, and you're examples actually prove MY POINT.

Hamilton had Chara to work with, not to mention Seidenberg and Boychuk. That's great insulation. Trouba had Enstrom, Byfuglien until he opened up space to move him up, Subban had Markov. McDonagh had Girardi and a much more experienced Staal. Staal had Girardi and a Roszival in his prime.

Hamonic you might actually have a point with, but exceptions exist, and really since when do we want to model ourselves after the Islanders management decisions?

I will not back down on this. Trading Phaneuf could be the single stupidest decision management could make at this point in time. All it serves to do is put two young developing dmen in a position that is going to put entirely too much pressure on them, before they are ready for it.

Trade Phaneuf in a year if they both break out, or better yet in two, but now? You couldn't possibly make a stupider decision. The lunacy of some fans continues to baffle me...

No one is asking you to back down on anything, it's your opinion and your entitled to it.

Polak has not been a career 3rd pairing though. The last two seasons with the emergence of Shat is the only times he has been under an average of 19 mins a night in his career. Robidas was still playing over 20 mins a night when injured. Robidas was still a top 4. Both could get some rest by playing Franson and Gardiner/Rielly on 1st PP.

Hamilton did play mostly with Seidenberg his first season and the coach had confidence in him to pair him with Chara in his second.
Trouba's partner is Stuart
McDonaugh started with Sauer before he got playing minutes with Girardi. Staal did play with Rosival, a guy they gave away practically.
Markov has been hurt so much that Subban had limited minutes with him at the start, he's played mostly with Gorges who apparently is only worth Franson, who you think sucks. He also won the Norris with Gorges, not Markov.
Doughty had O'Donnell.
Karlsson had Kuba.
etc etc.

None of those pairing guys are considered 1st pairing guys other than Chara. Seidenberg is not good enough on his own to lead a first pair, neither is Girardi...they are both good compliment guys. Stuart, Rosival, Sauer, Gorges, O'Donnell, Kuba, none are top 2 guys. Those young D became who thet are because they were put fairly quickly into top pairing situations due to their skill.

So, I'm not sure how it proves your point. The main thing in all cases is that the coaches gave these guys opportunity and stuck with them through their initial mistakes. Spin it all you want, but most of these guys did not start with the top D-men you claim. They started just like Gardiner and Rielly...limited minutes on lower pairings with average defencemen or veterans and became top defencemen when given a vote of confidence and opportunity.

Don't see how anything you have shown proves Rielly and Gardiner will be ruined without Dion.

 

[Teeder9]

Stuart is still pretty good insulation for Trouba. Pure shutdown dman who doesn't take **** from anyone. I'm all for trading Phaneuf at some point, but unless we are getting back someone who can help in that regard, which really means we aren't rebuilding, than we may as well keep the best team possible and hope they don't like golf as much next season.

 

[Rielly4]

That's a pretty big assumption to base literally revolutionizing our defense.

I mean neither Rielly nor Gardiner can shoot like Phaneuf can, that alone might keep him on PP1.

Obviously Phaneuf has a better shot, but he has no where near the puck moving ability and mobility that Gardiner and Rielly have..Its not like Phaneuf ever shoots on the powerplay, he just moves it around.

Playmaking ability and mobility are far more important then the shot on the powerplay in todays game.

Plus Rielly and Gardiner can shoot too, Rielly as a pretty good shot actually so does Gardiner they would just rather pass most of the time.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Personally our best course of action to be to use the market to our advantage. For example, a potential course of action would be to trade Cody Franson (selling), but afterwards acquiring a good replacement through FA (Tallinder, Salo, McBain, etc.) or trade (Oduya, Kindl, etc.) which would be a buying move.

Essentially we acquire high assets for a player (selling), but by taking advantage of the market we acquire a replacement for fewer to no assets who can easily replace them or even upgrade upon them (buying).

McBain would be the best since we get so much out of good players who are struggling and could use revitalization in their careers (Raymond last year, Booth this year). Oduya would be a good option because Chicago just needs to get cap space and he would come at a drastically reduced price (top 4 player at a similar price to Franson). Kindl would also be a good option because his value is at an all time low but like McBain is a good player and could just need a place to turn it around. We'd just need to trade for him instead signing him. Salo, Tallinder, Morris and even guys like Sarich, Komi, Jovanovski are also all players in the market that are still decent NHLers.

So, I wonder how all of this would work out? Are you trading Franson first and expecting a big return? Doubt if that (the big return) would happen.

And, then there's the 2nd part of this plan which is presumably to get a better player to fill the void left by the departed player. I doubt if you are going to get a player like for Oduya for peanuts either. Need to take into account that many other teams would be interested in a steady defender like Oduya.

Not saying this is impossible of course, but my guess is that these options are being explored and if were really this easy the deals would have been done already.

 

[Teeder9]

Oduya stands out like a sore thumb in that post. He is a very good defenseman and not a guy the Hawks would look to move cheaply just to save cap space.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Personally our best course of action to be to use the market to our advantage. For example, a potential course of action would be to trade Cody Franson (selling), but afterwards acquiring a good replacement through FA (Tallinder, Salo, McBain, etc.) or trade (Oduya, Kindl, etc.) which would be a buying move.

Essentially we acquire high assets for a player (selling), but by taking advantage of the market we acquire a replacement for fewer to no assets who can easily replace them or even upgrade upon them (buying).

McBain would be the best since we get so much out of good players who are struggling and could use revitalization in their careers (Raymond last year, Booth this year). Oduya would be a good option because Chicago just needs to get cap space and he would come at a drastically reduced price (top 4 player at a similar price to Franson). Kindl would also be a good option because his value is at an all time low but like McBain is a good player and could just need a place to turn it around. We'd just need to trade for him instead signing him. Salo, Tallinder, Morris and even guys like Sarich, Komi, Jovanovski are also all players in the market that are still decent NHLers.

So, I wonder how all of this would work out? Are you trading Franson first and expecting a big return? Doubt if that (the big return) would happen.

And, then there's the 2nd part of this plan which is presumably to get a better player to fill the void left by the departed player. I doubt if you are going to get a player like for Oduya for peanuts either. Need to take into account that many other teams would be interested in a steady defender like Oduya.

Not saying this is impossible of course, but my guess is that these options are being explored and if were really this easy the deals would have been done already.

Oduya stands out like a sore thumb in that post. He is a very good defenseman and not a guy the Hawks would look to move cheaply just to save cap space.

Yes, I think so too, along with maybe a couple of others. I just don't see the huge demand & return for a player like Franson. The other part that seems suspect is how easy it will be us to find an even better replacement player supposedly for peanuts. Is this based on the hypothesis that all the other 29 GMs are complete dullards and have fallen asleep?

No doubt the rebuttal will be that we got player A or player B before under this or that circumstance, but I look at most of those deals as either exceptions, or with a more even keel with less hyperbole. As an example, with regards to the Beauchemin deal, he was and still is a very good defender (likely the best player in that deal at the time). The deal wasn't nearly as lopsided as some like to make it seem.

 

[613Leafer]

I'd be happy to see them move Franson and leave a spot open to internal competition. Franson is terrible defensively and almost guaranteed to leave in the offseason next year.

We always do this, let guys leave for nothing. We should get value for a guy who CLEARLY isn't in our longterm plans, and get some more NHL experience for one of our younger guys. I'm pretty confident at least one of Granberg/Percy/Holzer/MacWilliam/Finn can fill in a bottom-pairing role.

Given our shots against / goals against the past 5+ seasons, we should be more concerned about upgrading on Franson's terrible defensive play then on losing out on his potential offence, especially with Rielly/Gardiner here to help run the PP and contribute offensively from the backend (along with Phaneuf).

 

[RLF]

Stuart is still pretty good insulation for Trouba. Pure shutdown dman who doesn't take **** from anyone. I'm all for trading Phaneuf at some point, but unless we are getting back someone who can help in that regard, which really means we aren't rebuilding, than we may as well keep the best team possible and hope they don't like golf as much next season.

I don't mind Stuart, I was just putting facts to the prior statements. I also don't mind young D being brought in and to start playing 3rd pair minutes with vets. My point is, if they have talent and show they can play, give them the minutes and see if they are what you hope they are...these kids were the top guy on their teams up until now(not at pro level of course).
At some point the Leafs will have to decide if Dion is the right guy to pair with one of these two...if not, it is best to move him when value is high and he is still in his prime. Waiting a couple of years won't hurt if Dion shows well in playoff drives or the playoffs, should we make it. If he doesn't, his value will drop huge. Some argue, trade him on "if's" is dumb. But it's no different than we don't know "if" we are better off playing the kids "if" we don't let them play. Most teams now are going with signing their young, talented d-men to long term, big money...the Leafs decided to do that with a 29 year old who will likely be on the decline in the final years of his contract. It's backwards thinking. As many think the return for Franson will be very little, I doubt the return for Dion will be as big as some would like. So, if we are waiting for the motherload from trading Dion, I doubt it happens.

 

[RLF]

I'd be happy to see them move Franson and leave a spot open to internal competition. Franson is terrible defensively and almost guaranteed to leave in the offseason next year.

We always do this, let guys leave for nothing. We should get value for a guy who CLEARLY isn't in our longterm plans, and get some more NHL experience for one of our younger guys. I'm pretty confident at least one of Granberg/Percy/Holzer/MacWilliam/Finn can fill in a bottom-pairing role.

Given our shots against / goals against the past 5+ seasons, we should be more concerned about upgrading on Franson's terrible defensive play then on losing out on his potential offence, especially with Rielly/Gardiner here to help run the PP and contribute offensively from the backend (along with Phaneuf).

Funny thing is, Franson has only been a regular the past two seasons, so he has little to do with the 3 seasons prior. Two seasons ago, he lead the Leafs in D pts and had one of the best +/-. Last year he had a horrible year defensively while playing with the two more or less rookies(Gardiner/Rielly). Somehow he has become our biggest problem on D, even though the only mainstays the past 5 seasons you mention have been Dion and Gunnar. I really doubt changing Franson for one of the guys you mentioned is fixing our D.

 

[SprDaVE]

Shanahan said the Leafs will hire another front office exec next week.

Likely a capologist type hire I would speculate.

Also, Kevin Hayes is officially a free agent tomorrow. It would be a nice coup for Nonis to sign him but it seems unlikely.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

No one said let Gardiner/Rielly "take over" the D. It is suggested to move forward with them and pairing them with vets and see what they can do plus getting return for Dion.

Voynov was hardly proven at that point, he was younger than Gardiner is now when Johnson was traded, with less games played then Gardiner now and in his first NHL season. Johnson was traded because the Kings were tired of waiting for him to develop and wanted scoring up-front. They got Carter, the Kings won the cup (2X now), so the trade worked out pretty well without getting a D in return and it didn`t seem to hurt Voynov or Doughty`s development. LA moving forward with Doughty/Voynov, seems to have been the correct move. 2 Cups should be proof enough.

All the players you mention were traded at 25 years old or younger. Phaneuf is going on 30 and the Leafs arguably have more talented young D depth than LA had when they traded Johnson. Voynov and Doughty were only 22 when the Kings made that trade.

Carter/Richards trade has nothing to do with developing d-men. But since it was brought up, moving them didn't hurt the development of Giroux(just turned 23 at the time of the trade) or the players they acquired in Simmonds(22), Voracek(21), B.Schenn(19)...who became part of a very young Flyers forward group.

Won't even comment on trying to compare EDM to Toronto's situation.

The only D comparison you have is LA...who have since won 2 cups with talented, relatively unproven young d-men(Doughty, Voynov, Martinez) when they pulled the trigger on the deal. They had vets to pair them with(Scuderi, Greene,Mitchell), which the Leafs also now have.
I wonder if LA has learned yet not to throw young inexperienced D into the fray. The Bruins should hold back Hamilton, The Islanders Hamonic and DeHaan, the Jets Trouba, the Rangers screwed up McDonaugh and Staal, the Canadiens blew it with Subban...when will these guys learn not to give young D real ice time?

The Leafs situation and the Kings situation isn't all that comparable and your examples if anything prove why we need to shelter Rielly for another year or potentially two.

Doughty was drafted 2nd overall in a very good draft class behind Stamkos, made the NHL at 18, had 59 points at the age of 19 well also being arguably the best Canadian Dman at the Olympics that year. As good of a prospect as Rielly is, he's nowhere at the Doughty level!

Almost all the other players you noted weren't tossed into the role of being "the guy" until a year or two or three older then 20 year old Rielly currently is.

The trading of Gunnarson already has Gardiner + Rielly slatted for more responsibilities.

Banking on Rielly tanking on more then 2 or 3 minutes of extra time per game this season is premature. If he does get to legitimate top 2 or 3 Dman status this season then consider that a pleasant surprise.

I get what your trying to say but why even potentially mess with the development of Rielly? Teams have already made their big off-season moves so expecting a great return for Phaneuf at this point simply won't happen.

Hamilton didn't even crack averaging 20 minutes per night last season so they have been sheltering him.

McDonagh played 3 seasons of University hockey then a half season in the AHL before cracking the Rangers lineup.

Voynov played 3 full AHL seasons in the AHL then started off in the AHL his 4th season.

Subban played out his entire junior eligibility then played an entire season in the AHL.

Staal played out his two junior eligible seasons after being drafted then didn't crack 20 minutes his first year in the league.

The development route the Leafs are taking with Rielly is refreshing after they rushed Schenn and potentially ruined him long term in the process.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I'd be happy to see them move Franson and leave a spot open to internal competition. Franson is terrible defensively and almost guaranteed to leave in the offseason next year.

We always do this, let guys leave for nothing. We should get value for a guy who CLEARLY isn't in our longterm plans, and get some more NHL experience for one of our younger guys. I'm pretty confident at least one of Granberg/Percy/Holzer/MacWilliam/Finn can fill in a bottom-pairing role.

Given our shots against / goals against the past 5+ seasons, we should be more concerned about upgrading on Franson's terrible defensive play then on losing out on his potential offence, especially with Rielly/Gardiner here to help run the PP and contribute offensively from the backend (along with Phaneuf).

So would I. I'm just not sure it will produce the bonanza some think it will. Getting a pick IMHO would be good - just not sure it will be a 1st rounder, or even a 2nd.

 

[RLF]

The Leafs situation and the Kings situation isn't all that comparable and your examples if anything prove why we need to shelter Rielly for another or potentially two.

Doughty was drafted 2nd overall in a very good draft class behind Stamkos, made the NHL at 18, had 59 points at the age of 19 well also being arguably the best Canadian Dman at the Olympics that year. As good of a prospect as Rielly is, he's nowhere at the Doughty level!

Almost all the other players you noted weren't tossed into the role of being "the guy" until a year or two or three older then 20 year old Rielly currently is.

The trading of Gunnarson already has Gardiner + Rielly slatted for more responsibilities.

Banking on Rielly tanking on more then 2 or 3 minutes of extra time per game this season is premature. If he does get to legitimate top 2 or 3 Dman status this season then consider that a pleasant surprise.

I get what your trying to say but why even potentially mess with the development of Rielly? Teams have already made their big off-season moves so expecting a great return for Phaneuf at this point simply won't happen.

Hamilton didn't even crack averaging 20 minutes per night last season so they have been sheltering him.

McDonagh played 3 seasons of University hockey then a half season in the AHL before cracking the Rangers lineup.

Voynov played 3 full AHL seasons in the AHL then started off in the AHL his 4th season.

Subban played out his entire junior eligibility then played an entire season in the AHL.

Staal played out his two junior eligible seasons after being drafted then didn't crack 20 minutes his first year in the league.

The development route the Leafs are taking with Rielly is refreshing after they rushed Schenn and potentially ruined him long term in the process.

I don't really disagree with what you are saying and I have already stated that those who think a big return for Dion is what we will get, will likely be disappointed.

You seem to be forgetting I said Gardiner/Rielly, not just Rielly. Your whole focus is on Rielly. I would expect Gardiner to take a bigger role than Rielly should at this point. Gardiner at his age and experience, should be ready to show if he has it or not, like Voynov etc. I was more thinking Rielly as second pair duites and PP time.
Yes Doughty was a 2nd overall and I agree Doughty is an elite D, but draft position has little to do with it.

The other examples...Rielly 5th, Hamilton 9th, Subban 43rd, Voynov 32nd, Mcdonaugh 12th and Staal 12th. Rielly is a higher draft pick than everyone else.

The other part is with the type of trades I would want for Dion, is about getting more quality prospects and opening up cap room. We could add a McBain, Murray etc cheap if needed to play third pair with Franson with the new cap space. If Rielly looks overwhelmed as a second pair this season, move him down and move Franson/McBain back up to 2nd pair. There are options.