2014 Free Agency drags on ...

[zoA]

Leafs have signed players who seem to pair up with others well. Buddies if you will. Not sure if it was conscious decision or not, but...

Kessel Bozak...brah's
JVR - Frattin...Frat boys again
Komarov - Kontiola - Finnish connection
Winnik- Clarkson - local boys
Robidas - Bernier - French connection
Rielly and Gardiner..young guns on the back end
Booth - Santorelli - Florida and Canuck teammates
Granberg-Nylander Swedish connection if they make the team
Only leaves Lupul, Kadri, Phaneuf, Holland, Polak, Franson, Reimer that don't have clear buddies.

See what happens when you drink vodka responsibly?

Lupul - Kadri - #swag
Holland - Polak - Last names are related to geographic locations in some variation
Franson - Reimer - Newest whipping boys, a.k.a the Sadomasochism club.
Phaneuf - MP3 Player - Phaneuf - Does this even need an explanation?

Fixed it for you while adhering to your responsibility statement

 

[Rielly4]

The more i think about it the more i think trading Dion might be a good idea.

I actually like the guy, i think hes a nice piece on any team.

Its really just his contract, looking around the NHL i dont see any good teams that have guys like him at 7 mil... I know that the size of contracts are going up but i really think that Gardiner and Rielly are our go to guys on the powerplay i think these two can be a lot more effective then Dion on the powerplay.

That leaves him as just purely a shutdown guy 5 on 5 and a 2nd unit PP guy in my books.

His defensive ability isnt great, its good but not great and his mobility and passing is average...Not below average, but average for a top pairing guy.

I really think it is in our best interest to try and move that contract and pick up a valuable young asset in return.

I dont see a spot for Franson or Phaneuf on our blueline moving forward or the money they will be making if we want to turn this team into a contender.

Phaneuf for Strome+2nd rounder is what i would try and do. Nothing against Dion i like him i just think for strategical cap reasons and the fact that we have better young left handed d men who are better suited to play PP, i think that 7 mil is best spread elsewhere. Its not that i dont think hes worth 7 mil i just think with Rielly and Gards we should save that 7 mil pick up a young C like Strome and then begin the quest to find Kadri-Nylander the right linemate and try and build the right side of our defense with a cornerstone there.

 

[Teeder9]

As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with Thrill that it doesn't make sense to trade him, at least at this point. Gardiner and Rielly aren't ready to take over the defense on this team. If he was to be traded to the Isles, I would sooner Reinhart than Strome anyway.

 

[Rielly4]

As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with Thrill that it doesn't make sense to trade him, at least at this point. Gardiner and Rielly aren't ready to take over the defense on this team. If he was to be traded to the Isles, I would sooner Reinhart than Strome anyway.

I just dont feel we are a championship team this year anyways, i think that we definitely will have to make some moves after to rebuild our defense a little bit...But i dont see any good team in the NHL that has a guy like him at 7 mil who is not even on the top powerplay...And to me he really should not be on the top powerplay anymore.

IMO he got that contract as a top PP top PK guy who plays against top lines, now hes just gonna be a guy who plays against top lines and isnt even elite at doing so. We could get better defensive d men for much less cap space, i just dont think its a fit role wise...

And Strome would be huge for us, the guys a stud of a prospect did great in the AHL last year.

No way the Isles move Reinhart though..Hes the anchor on there D...Doesnt look like they really need Strome with Grabo and Nielsen and Cizikas.

 

[FifthLine]

I just dont feel we are a championship team this year anyways, i think that we definitely will have to make some moves after to rebuild our defense a little bit...But i dont see any good team in the NHL that has a guy like him at 7 mil who is not even on the top powerplay...And to me he really should not be on the top powerplay anymore.

IMO he got that contract as a top PP top PK guy who plays against top lines, now hes just gonna be a guy who plays against top lines and isnt even elite at doing so. We could get better defensive d men for much less cap space, i just dont think its a fit role wise...

And Strome would be huge for us, the guys a stud of a prospect did great in the AHL last year.

No way the Isles move Reinhart though..Hes the anchor on there D...Doesnt look like they really need Strome with Grabo and Nielsen and Cizikas.

Reinhart has yet to 'anchor' their d..

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Apparently Florida is still looking for winger scoring help. With the addition of Ekblad, and young guys like Kulikov, Petrovic, Olsen, could Gudbranson be had?

If the Leafs offered Lupul and Franson...could you get Gudbranson+? Would anyone want to take a shot at this kid?

Really doubtful, even for Gudbranson alone, let alone the +.

 

[Lifeisnice]

Really doubtful, even for Gudbranson alone, let alone the +.

Perhaps Kulikov might be a better target. Some Panther fans call Gudbranson a future captain. He's the fan-favorite type of guy you don't get without overpaying

 

[Lifeisnice]

The more i think about it the more i think trading Dion might be a good idea.

I actually like the guy, i think hes a nice piece on any team.

Its really just his contract, looking around the NHL i dont see any good teams that have guys like him at 7 mil... I know that the size of contracts are going up but i really think that Gardiner and Rielly are our go to guys on the powerplay i think these two can be a lot more effective then Dion on the powerplay.

That leaves him as just purely a shutdown guy 5 on 5 and a 2nd unit PP guy in my books.

His defensive ability isnt great, its good but not great and his mobility and passing is average...Not below average, but average for a top pairing guy.

I really think it is in our best interest to try and move that contract and pick up a valuable young asset in return.

I dont see a spot for Franson or Phaneuf on our blueline moving forward or the money they will be making if we want to turn this team into a contender.

Phaneuf for Strome+2nd rounder is what i would try and do. Nothing against Dion i like him i just think for strategical cap reasons and the fact that we have better young left handed d men who are better suited to play PP, i think that 7 mil is best spread elsewhere. Its not that i dont think hes worth 7 mil i just think with Rielly and Gards we should save that 7 mil pick up a young C like Strome and then begin the quest to find Kadri-Nylander the right linemate and try and build the right side of our defense with a cornerstone there.

I dont think we should give up on the season before it even begins. Lets keep our captain and find out if we can see our team play playoff hockey again

 

[JackJ]

The more i think about it the more i think trading Dion might be a good idea.

First step is establishing two other solid D pairings:

1) Rielly + ?
2) Gardiner + ?

then you move Dion. Imo Robidas and Polak were brought for this purpose and to ease Granberg into the mix.

 

[Teeder9]

Perhaps Kulikov might be a better target. Some Panther fans call Gudbranson a future captain. He's the fan-favorite type of guy you don't get without overpaying

I don't think I would want Kulikov. Gudbranson to this point hasn't been good enough to warrant a lot in return, but, he has been good enough, and shown flashes of what he could be, that you'd be paying through the nose for that potential, and rightly so. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities they want Rielly in return. I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't laugh at the value either. One guy in Florida I do like and we could get rather cheaply is Racine, but it would only make sense if we wanted to stock up on dmen, because we have guys like him somewhat already. If we were trading Lupul to Fla, I would want Howden and Racine back though.

 

[Lifeisnice]

First step is establishing two other solid D pairings:

1) Rielly + ?
2) Gardiner + ?

then you move Dion. Imo Robidas and Polak were brought for this purpose and to ease Granberg into the mix.

No way Reilly is ready for 22+ mins against top competition. He will be good, but that is definitely rushing a young player. He is not a #1D yet, what would you do if he struggled? We need a partner for Dion, not to dump him

Edit: unless i have misunderstood your post. Reilly would be okay on a second pairing with a good partner

 

[Lifeisnice]

I don't think I would want Kulikov. Gudbranson to this point hasn't been good enough to warrant a lot in return, but, he has been good enough, and shown flashes of what he could be, that you'd be paying through the nose for that potential, and rightly so. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities they want Rielly in return. I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't laugh at the value either. One guy in Florida I do like and we could get rather cheaply is Racine, but it would only make sense if we wanted to stock up on dmen, because we have guys like him somewhat already. If we were trading Lupul to Fla, I would want Howden and Racine back though.

Wouldnt be a bad idea if we are sellers at the deadline

 

[Rielly4]

Im cool with keeping Dion for this season...

Im just saying that for strategic team building in the cap world reasons Dion should not be part of our plans for building a cup contending team.

What i would do is look to move Dion Franson and Lupul and bring in a high scoring vet for the 2nd line to play with Kadri and Nylander (maybe Sharp) then add a top end RD whos pay is closer to 5 mil and focuses mostly on purely defensive aspects of the game(Hamonic/Bogosian type)

 

[TheThrill81*]

Im cool with keeping Dion for this season...

Im just saying that for strategic team building in the cap world reasons Dion should not be part of our plans for building a cup contending team.

What i would do is look to move Dion Franson and Lupul and bring in a high scoring vet for the 2nd line to play with Kadri and Nylander (maybe Sharp) then add a top end RD whos pay is closer to 5 mil and focuses mostly on purely defensive aspects of the game(Hamonic/Bogosian type)

You think an aging winger and 2nd pairing d-man are solutions for building a cup contending team? That's a horrible strategy.

 

[RLF]

You think an aging winger and 2nd pairing d-man are solutions for building a cup contending team? That's a horrible strategy.

To be fair, he said a high scoring vet which doesn't necessarily mean old(er), (although he did use Sharp for example) and a "top end RD" like (Hamonic, Bogosian) who are both top pairing guys on their respective teams and young.

Although the "high scoring vet winger" I am not sure I would be keen on, I do get and agree with the D idea (as I have mentioned before).
It's all about what you believe is best going forward with the D. I would prefer to build around the youth (Rielly, Gardiner, Finn, Grandberg, Percy etc) and some would rather build around Dion or feel Dion is the right guy with the current youth.

Dion's contract is OK value, not great value, and is long. Hamonic's is great value and only 1 year less. For the same price as Dion, you could have Hamonic and have a 2nd/3rd line winger. I would like to see the Leafs move Dion while he has good value and not too old.
I had proposed a trade of Phaneuf for DeHaan, Lee and Sundstrom which got laughs and called spare parts by Leafs fans. Yet DeHaan is projected as Hamonic's partner this year on the first pairing, Lee is a big power forward that has scored at every level and will get a chance at top 2 lines and Sundstrom is a young defensive centre...probably 3rd liner. Plus, we would have shed over $4mil in salary. Isle would not likely do the trade as they are very high on DeHaan and Lee.
The point is, moving Dion while he has value for young players that have shown potential may not be a bad thing. We may regret it, but it also may work out great. No different then if Dion has another poor playoff run, we may regret not moving him because his value will drop, no doubt.

 

[pspot]

Im cool with keeping Dion for this season...

Im just saying that for strategic team building in the cap world reasons Dion should not be part of our plans for building a cup contending team.

What i would do is look to move Dion Franson and Lupul and bring in a high scoring vet for the 2nd line to play with Kadri and Nylander (maybe Sharp) then add a top end RD whos pay is closer to 5 mil and focuses mostly on purely defensive aspects of the game(Hamonic/Bogosian type)

considering where this off season has gone im not sure this is true anymore

until the next lockout it seems like some serious inflation going on with these salaries. goes back to my idea of makign the compliance buy out a regular thing. teams gain one every two years, can stock pile and can be traded as assets

 

[Rielly4]

Im just saying, there is no defenseman in the league who is paid 7 mil per season and does not play on there teams top powerplay unit.

Hes being paid that money to be a top powerplay guy...I believe Rielly and Gardiner are better powerplay guys then Dion and Franson.

So is Dion worth 7 mil just to be a shutdown guy 5 on 5?? I dont think hes an elite shutdown guy hes just a good hybrid of offense and defense. I think for 7 mil hes a waste playing on the 2nd PP unit moving forward.

 

[TheThrill81*]

Im just saying, there is no defenseman in the league who is paid 7 mil per season and does not play on there teams top powerplay unit.

Hes being paid that money to be a top powerplay guy...I believe Rielly and Gardiner are better powerplay guys then Dion and Franson.

So is Dion worth 7 mil just to be a shutdown guy 5 on 5?? I dont think hes an elite shutdown guy hes just a good hybrid of offense and defense. I think for 7 mil hes a waste playing on the 2nd PP unit moving forward.

He's not being paid that money simply to be on the 1st PP. He plays tough minutes in all situations. That's why he's getting paid 7x7. A whole lot of revisionist history going on here from out of the blue to justify some insane trade proposal. Nothing new in Leafs Nation I suppose.

 

[Rielly4]

He's not being paid that money simply to be on the 1st PP. He plays tough minutes in all situations. That's why he's getting paid 7x7. A whole lot of revisionist history going on here from out of the blue to justify some insane trade proposal. Nothing new in Leafs Nation I suppose.

okay...You are just being a blind homer...

Name me one D man getting paid 7 mil per who is not on the teams first powerplay unit...I realize Phaneuf is currently on our 1st unit, but im saying he should not be for much longer.

 

[theIceWookie]

okay...You are just being a blind homer...

Name me one D man getting paid 7 mil per who is not on the teams first powerplay unit...I realize Phaneuf is currently on our 1st unit, but im saying he should not be for much longer.

That's a pretty big assumption to base literally revolutionizing our defense.

I mean neither Rielly nor Gardiner can shoot like Phaneuf can, that alone might keep him on PP1.

 

[Lifeisnice]

That's a pretty big assumption to base literally revolutionizing our defense.

I mean neither Rielly nor Gardiner can shoot like Phaneuf can, that alone might keep him on PP1.

I agree. Does anyone remember Reilly having a relatively weak shot last year? Phaneuf and Franson are still our best point shots until Gardiner and Reilly prove otherwise

 

[RLF]

He's not being paid that money simply to be on the 1st PP. He plays tough minutes in all situations. That's why he's getting paid 7x7. A whole lot of revisionist history going on here from out of the blue to justify some insane trade proposal. Nothing new in Leafs Nation I suppose.

I agree with you that it is not about 1st PP time and that Dion plays tough mins in all situations. But it`s also not about justifying perceived insane trade proposals. It`s a different opinion on where the team will be with or without Dion. Some believe the D would collapse without Dion unless we got an equal D in return, which seems to be your view. Some think it`s time to get young prospects in return for Dion, save some cap space and let the talented youngsters we have given the ice to see what they can do now that there are veterans like Robidas and Polak in the mix to bring them along. That`s mine and some others view.

 

[TheCLAM]

I agree. Does anyone remember Reilly having a relatively weak shot last year? Phaneuf and Franson are still our best point shots until Gardiner and Reilly prove otherwise

I think Reilly will figure out his shot situation, he's only a first year player.

 

[LaPlante94]

It's not how hard you shot, it's how accurate you shoot. Gardiner and Franson are our most accurate shooters on the back end so that should be the 1st PP unit or at least given a shot. Then Rielly and Phaneuf on the 2nd unit.

 

[Deebo]

It's not how hard you shot, it's how accurate you shoot.

Both are important.