Olympics: 2014 — Canada Roster Discussion (Part XII - Announcement Jan 7th, 12PM EST, TSN)

Status
Not open for further replies.

CertainAffinity*

Guest
But it's not like he was bum until 3 weeks ago.

Repeating... Patrick Sharp scored the most goals in the Stanley Cup playoffs last spring. So him being really good isn't new even if him being THIS really good maybe is.

He was invited to Team Canada's camp. They had their eye on him from the beginning. Assuming they watched the Sharp/Toews/Hossa line tore people apart for the first half of the season, I say his chances are pretty good.

Team Canada decided to go to the absolute deadline to release their team for a reason. It wasn't so they could take the last week off and have a few beers. They want to make sure they see as much as they can before making the final decision.

I think Sharp makes the team.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
25,376
14,845
Vancouver
But it's not like he was bum until 3 weeks ago.

Repeating... Patrick Sharp scored the most goals in the Stanley Cup playoffs last spring. So him being really good isn't new even if him being THIS really good maybe is.

He's always been a good player, but he was likely a long shot going into the year despite his playoffs. If the team was decided three weeks ago, it definitely makes it less likely he's on. Though I can't see why they couldn't make a last second change before they have to make it official.
 

Axey

Registered User
Sep 15, 2008
21
0
Cape Breton, NS
But you're missing the point, whether or not he is actually in the running has no influence on the argument of SHOULD he be in the running.

You see the article uses statistical facts and data. Those things have no bias, they have no prejudice, they don't care what jersey a player wears, where he's from, it doesn't care whether people like him as a person or dislike him as a person. The data suggests that the things people hold against him aren't actually true, his team is better off with him on the ice than with him off the ice.

So if you truly don't want him on the team because you think he's not good enough, maybe you should start considering what you're basing your decisions on.

I live in Edmonton, watch every game. Offensive skill is there in abundance but the guy has an allergy to defensive play. Constantly cheating in his own zone. Stevie Y wouldn't take a guy like that.
 

Pen13

Registered User
Feb 6, 2009
72
0
Tavares Crosby Stamkos
Duchene Getzlaf Perry
Couture Toews Sharp
Staal Giroux Carter
Bergeron Nash

Keith Doughty
JayBo Petro
Subban Weber
Vlasic Seabrook

Price
Smith
Luongo

Staal hurt himself playing at the worlds when he didnt have to go and that was the reason for his slow start, he has 26 points in his last 23 games. I would have Seguin but i think they will go with Carter and Nash ahead of him
 

deytookerjaabs

Johnny Paycheck's Tank Advisor
Sep 26, 2010
13,403
5,362
Eastern Shore
He's been a lock for a while now. Him and sharp on the third line is gonna be a great pair. Team Canada's forwards look like this right now.

Kunitz- Crosby- XXX
Perry- Getzlaf-XXX
Sharp- Toews-XXX
xXX-XXX-XXX

It's just about fiding the best fit for these pairs with the remaing players

Team Canada has the luxury of having so many forward pairings and D-pairings who are elite + have chemistry. That's what they should stick with as opposed to just jumbling the best players together.
 

CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,946
11,320
The Russians in the Russian roster thread laughed at me when I said that players cut from Team Canada would make the Russian 1st-line.

Let's say each of their top lines consists of any 2 of Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, and Kovalchuk.

This leaves Radulov to fill in on one of the 2 lines, and Semin the other.

One of Radulov or Semin will be on Russia's 1st-line. Neither would make Team Canada, and neither are as good as players Team Canada is going to leave off.

For example...I don't think Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin are even being considered at this point, and both of them are much better players than Radulov and Semin.

The disparity gets even wider on defense. Guys like Letang and Phaneuf won't be making Team Canada. Seabrook might also get overlooked.

All 3 of them would be Russia's #1 defenseman. No doubt about that.

I'd take Semin over Hall or Seguin at this point in time, but that will likely change soon.
 

therealdeal

Registered User
Apr 22, 2005
4,682
311
Hall is a heck of a player. The guy is extremely talented offensively, and his speed is top-tier. However, you don't assemble an Olympic team based off stats. I don't think you're understanding this. Fill out a roster keeping everything in mind and you will see that he just doesn't fit in this year. The past few days I have made my argument in greater detail, but you and the other Hall supporters simply dismiss it without countering

TBH I kinda only pop in and out of this thread and look for links. The level of discourse in these threads (read: HFboards) is more reminiscent of a high school argument than a logical debate about players.

Got any good links for me to read?
 

Kurtosis

GHG
May 26, 2010
25,364
3,907
The Village Within the City
What do you mean switched him out? There were no healthy scratches available in 2010.

They couldn't switch him out, all they could do was shelter him at the bottom of the defensive ladder and double shift Keith with both Doughty and Weber, and having Doughty switch sides to play with Weber at times.

The D-corps on Team Canada last time out was a game of musical chairs imposed by the need to keep Seabrook off the ice (and, arguably, Pronger and Niedermayer earlier in the tournament as well).

I didn't remember they only had 6 available the whole tournament.
 

bananaz

Registered User
Oct 26, 2006
1,075
0
Canada
I would be shocked if he is not on the roster at this point. If Stamkos was healthy, Canada could ice four of the best proven duos in the world. In no particular order:

Crosby-Kunitz
Sharp-Toews
Getzlaf-Perry
St. Louis-Stamkos

There would be less concern about chemistry if one were to build around these pairings.
Chemistry is important, no doubt in a short tournament, but what worked well last time round was Babcock's ability to put players in situations they were not normally use to (Iginla/Staal on a checking line). I hope management will do something similar, hence, I personally feel we need players who fit certain roles regardless of their skill.

St.Louis will probably not make the team (IMO) and Stamkos will probably not be playing on the forth line. I like Burke/Poiles's approach to making team USA in that they wanted to choose players who played specific roles (ie. 1st line scorer, 3rd line checker, 4th line grinder, shut down dman etc.).
 

CertainAffinity*

Guest
Chemistry is important, no doubt in a short tournament, but what worked well last time round was Babcock's ability to put players in situations they were not normally use to (Iginla/Staal on a checking line). I feel he's going to do something similar here, hence, I personally feel we need players who fit certain roles regardless of their skill.

St.Louis will probably not make the team (IMO) and Stamkos will probably not be playing on the forth line. I like Burke/Poiles's approach to making team USA in that they wanted to choose players who played specific roles (ie. 1st line scorer, 3rd line checker, 4th line grinder, shut down dman etc.).

He said no order. Stamkos and St. Louis aren't going to play on the 4th line and that wasn't the case he was making.

St. Louis is a lock for the team if Stamkos is healthy. He may even go as an extra/alternate forward even if Stamkos needs to be replaced. He won the Art Ross last year, and he's putting up points and carrying the offense on a team without Stamkos right now.

A 4th line grinder or 3rd line checker in the Olympics is very difference than a 4th line grinder or 3rd line checker in the NHL. Bergeron and Toews are your third and fourth line centers, potentially - not because they are lower end players, but simply because their defensive upside is greater than their offensive upside compared to the likes of a Getzlaf or a Tavares or a Crosby.

If Toews and Bergeron are anchoring your bottom lines, that should give you some indication as to the quality of player that will suffice in a shut-down or grinder role. Claude Giroux, Logan Couture, Jamie Benn, Patrick Sharp - these elite players could all be grinders and checkers in the Olympics.

Rick Nash was on the shut-down line in Vancouver, remember.
 

KBobs

Registered User
Dec 26, 2013
763
167
Canada
TBH I kinda only pop in and out of this thread and look for links. The level of discourse in these threads (read: HFboards) is more reminiscent of a high school argument than a logical debate about players.

Got any good links for me to read?

Fair enough.

I don't have any new links regarding the Olympic team. But, what I believe is one of the greatest sources of information on anything hockey related, are the TSN radio podcasts on iTunes. TSN does a terrific job of articling the podcasts, so you can scan through the list and something is bound to catch your eye. Interviews with HC personnel or segments with any one of "The Insiders" are edited down from an entire radio show to just the segment with that particular guest. I cannot recommend this enough.
 
Jun 22, 2009
2,290
0
*Stamkos-Crosby-Stlouis
Benn-Tavares-Seguin
Sharp-Toews-Giroux
Hall-Getzlaf-Perry
Couture,Nash

Keith-Webber
Boumwester-Peitro
Vlasic-Doughty
Subban

Price
Luongo
Smith

Kunitz in if Stamkos can't go.
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
30,054
5,676
Yea i go back and forth so much but Kunitz is gonna be on this hockey team.

He can also play with Getzlaf. So he has that going for him as well.

Kunitz-Crosby-Giroux
Kunitz-Crosby-Stamkos
Kunitz-Crosby-Carter
Kunitz-Crosby-Nash

and any other left handers that can play the right side really. I think they'll do just fine as long as Sid and the RW'er can get in and force turnovers. Thats why i'd love to see Giroux there. He's the best of the bunch at doing that.
 

Sam Spade

Registered User
May 4, 2009
27,484
16,207
Maryland
I wonder if the team is picked as others have said. If so I am sure Sharp has a spot, James Neal won't though.
 

CertainAffinity*

Guest
*Stamkos-Crosby-Stlouis
Benn-Tavares-Seguin
Sharp-Toews-Giroux
Hall-Getzlaf-Perry
Couture,Nash

Keith-Webber
Boumwester-Peitro
Vlasic-Doughty
Subban

Price
Luongo
Smith

Kunitz in if Stamkos can't go.

Hall is not making the team. Seguin is the longest of long shots.
 

SimpleJack

Registered User
Jul 25, 2013
6,537
4,210
Forwards should look like this

Stamkos - Crosby - St. Louis
Duchene - Tavares - Giroux
Sharp - Toews - Bergeron
Couture - Getzlaf - Perry
M. Richards, Benn
 

hitmen19

Registered User
Jan 21, 2013
823
1
But you're missing the point, whether or not he is actually in the running has no influence on the argument of SHOULD he be in the running.

You see the article uses statistical facts and data. Those things have no bias, they have no prejudice, they don't care what jersey a player wears, where he's from, it doesn't care whether people like him as a person or dislike him as a person. The data suggests that the things people hold against him aren't actually true, his team is better off with him on the ice than with him off the ice.

So if you truly don't want him on the team because you think he's not good enough, maybe you should start considering what you're basing your decisions on.

team Canada isn't stupid. they have used what they use to see if he should be in the running, and decided no. players don't always just compete against each other, they compete for roles. hall isn't competing with benn, Bergeron, couture marleau for the third line fourth line shut down role because he isn't that player. the guys that he is competing with are for a winger on top two lines, and guys like Tavares and Duchene stamkos are better suited then hall is, so no room for hall. and anyone can use stats as selectively as they want to prove a point. unless you compare the stats for every player and standardize them they mean not much

hall had his chance to impress at the world championships last year, he has horrible. Duchene had his chance and he played great. Duchene had a fantastic start to the season. guess who team Canada is going to pick
 

bananaz

Registered User
Oct 26, 2006
1,075
0
Canada
He said no order. Stamkos and St. Louis aren't going to play on the 4th line and that wasn't the case he was making.

St. Louis is a lock for the team if Stamkos is healthy. He may even go as an extra/alternate forward even if Stamkos needs to be replaced. He won the Art Ross last year, and he's putting up points and carrying the offense on a team without Stamkos right now.

If Stamkos is healthy, of this group which 'duo' will play 4th line minutes?

Crosby - Kunitz
Toews - Sharp
Getzlaf - Perry
Stamkos - St. Louis

Duchene/Tavares/Giroux/Stamkos/Crosby/Toews/Bergeron/Getzlaf/Perry are IMO locks to the make the team. If I were making the team, I am essentially choosing the remaining 3-4 players that are flexible in the position they play and can slot any where in the lineup. Players like Benn, Couture and Sharp jump to mind. St.Louis, as good as he is offensively, wouldnt be on my list.

edit: neither would kunitz
 
Jun 22, 2009
2,290
0
I really hate the idea of playing guys out of position. A really good center playing LW won't look as natural as a LW playing LW. Or 2 right handed shots on the blue line just wont work imo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad