Speculation: 2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings XV

[Duffman955]

Since you forced me to look it up, it's 39.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/2277

6 NHL fights. Very impressive. By the time Kadri is his age, He will have more fights than that. And by no means is kadri a "fighter"

 

[Dreakmur]

6 NHL fights. Very impressive. By the time Kadri is his age, He will have more fights than that. And by no means is kadri a "fighter"

Why does it matter where he did his fighting? He has proven he is willing and able.

 

[Leafsforlife98]

right... didn't I say that?
we draft Monahan @ 13 (with the Winnipeg pick, that's now ours).
Winnipeg then would get 21

Why would Winnipeg get our Pick????????????????

The trade was Kadri and Gardiner for Scheifele, Trouba and Winnipeg's 1st round pick.


Where does it say that Winnipeg would get our 1st round pick??????

Oh yea, it doesn't

 

[Duffman955]

Why does it matter where he did his fighting? He has proven he is willing and able.

He has shied away at the NHL level. That is what matters.

 

[Leafsforlife98]

Depends on your definition of puck moving defense. Is it someone who gets points or someone who carried the puck up the ice?

Gardiner will often carry the puck up the ice leading the rush and jump in the play. Phaneuf + Franson rarely carry the puck up the ice leading the rush, they make a pass instead. That initial pass gets them a number of points, along with each of them getting about half their points coming off of the powerplay. I wouldn't classify either Phaneuf or Franson as puck rushers but both are still more than capable of getting points.

That is why I said they were puckmovers, not puck rushers. I know they don't rush the puck, that is why I would never classify them as puckrushers. They are good at making the quick first pass to our quick forwards who then do the damage. That is a puckmover, someone who moves the puck. It's great for our transition game.

Morgan Rielly would be considered a puckrusher not Phaneuf or Franson

 

[Dreakmur]

He has shied away at the NHL level. That is what matters.

There's a difference between not fighting and shying away.

 

[Dreakmur]

That is why I said they were puckmovers, not puck rushers. I know they don't rush the puck, that is why I would never classify them as puckrushers. They are good at making the quick first pass to our quick forwards who then do the damage. That is a puckmover, someone who moves the puck. It's great for our transition game.

Morgan Rielly would be considered a puckrusher not Phaneuf or Franson

Wait a minute... when did Phaneuf become good at making first passes?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Why would Winnipeg get our Pick????????????????

The trade was Kadri and Gardiner for Scheifele, Trouba and Winnipeg's 1st round pick.


Where does it say that Winnipeg would get our 1st round pick??????

Oh yea, it doesn't

sorry, I read it wrong. that's all.

 

[Drakkor]

That is why I said they were puckmovers, not puck rushers. I know they don't rush the puck, that is why I would never classify them as puckrushers. They are good at making the quick first pass to our quick forwards who then do the damage. It's great for our transition game.

Morgan Rielly would be considered a puckrusher not Phaneuf or Franson

Reading over your trade proposal and I definitely wouldn't do it.

We are trading two (small sample size) very good and young NHLers. For three I hope they turn outs.

Have no trouble trading vets for I hopes but not young NHLers. To redundant.

 

[nuck]

Why does it matter where he did his fighting? He has proven he is willing and able.

Carcillo and Mayers did the Hawks real fighting I think. He is a big guy and doesn't get pushed around but he isn't the one fighting other peoples battles. A big strong guy with skill probably isn't who they are looking for if they are shopping for someone like Clarkson who scraps 10 times a season.

I also can't see the Hawks letting him go, especially with the playoff he has had.

 

[Duffman955]

Reading over your trade proposal and I definitely wouldn't do it.

We are trading two (small sample size) very good and young NHLers. For three I hope they turn outs.

Have no trouble trading vets for I hopes but not young NHLers. To redundant.

Agreed.

We have two young core pieces that have breakout years in the NHL, why would we trade them for prospects?

 

[Leafsforlife98]

^there are so many thing wrong with this.

First of all Kadri>>>Scheifele now and in the future. Scheifele is a 2nd line center max.

Gardiner>>>Trouba now and in the future they are most likely even

How the **** did you get Monahan?

How can u say that Scheifele is a 2nd line center at max??

The guy had 39 goals and 79 points in 45 games in the OHL this year! He also had 15 goals and 41 points in 21 playoff games!

He had similar numbers to Kadri in his final year in the OHL, yet Kadri is >>>>> Scheifele?

Kadri - 35 goals and 93 points in 56 games
Scheifele- 39 goals and 79 points in 41 games

Points per game:

Kadri - 1.6
Scheifele- 1.75

So if Scheifele is a 2nd line center MAX, then so is Kadri.

 

[Dreakmur]

Carcillo and Mayers did the Hawks real fighting I think. He is a big guy and doesn't get pushed around but he isn't the one fighting other peoples battles. A big strong guy with skill probably isn't who they are looking for if they are shopping for someone like Clarkson who scraps 10 times a season.

I also can't see the Hawks letting him go, especially with the playoff he has had.

Carcillo and Mayers combined for 32 PIMs this season. Brendan Bollig was their main fighter, with 5 fights.

 

[Leafsforlife98]

Agreed.

We have two young core pieces that have breakout years in the NHL, why would we trade them for prospects?

I understand that, but what if Kadri gets his 4.5-5 million and drops off next year?

What if Gardiner's play drops off and he spends time in the press box again, which definitely happened a lot this season and his value plummets like it did before he showed up in the playoffs?


There are if's with any situation.


I am just saying when u get a chance to add 3 top tier prospects, by most hockey people's standards and clear cap space to add free agents or resign ur own, i think u do it.

I personally think Scheifele will be better than Kadri in the long run. They have the same offensive capabialties but Scheifele is also 3 inches taller than Kadri which IMO makes a huge difference, especially in the playoffs.

I also think Trouba will be better than Gardiner in the long run because of his all round game.

And when u can get a 1st round pick added to those 2 guys in what is described as a very deep draft, then IMO, you do it.

 

[Kurisu]

I understand that, but what if Kadri gets his 4.5-5 million and drops off next year?

What if Gardiner's play drops off and he spends time in the press box again, which definitely happened a lot this season and his value plummets like it did before he showed up in the playoffs?


There are if's with any situation.


I am just saying when u get a chance to add 3 top tier prospects, by most hockey people's standards and clear cap space to add free agents or resign ur own, i think u do it.

I personally think Scheifele will be better than Kadri in the long run. They have the same offensive capabialties but Scheifele is also 3 inches taller than Kadri which IMO makes a huge difference, especially in the playoffs.

I also think Trouba will be better than Gardiner in the long run because of his all round game.

And when u can get a 1st round pick added to those 2 guys in what is described as a very deep draft, then IMO, you do it.

your opinions mean little, because its apparent how delusional you are.

 

[Duffman955]

Points per game:

Kadri - 1.6
Scheifele- 1.75

So if Scheifele is a 2nd line center MAX, then so is Kadri.

Scheifele wasnt even the highest scorer on his team. He had much better linemates than kadri.

Also Kadri was 2.25 PPG in the playoffs while Scheifele was 1.95 PPG with far superior linemates.

Also if you look at kadri's ability to make plays, it is far superior to Scheifele.

Furthermore, Kadri has proven he can produce 1st line numbers in the NHL, which would mean that he IS a 1st line player.

 

[Duffman955]

I understand that, but what if Kadri gets his 4.5-5 million and drops off next year?

What if Gardiner's play drops off and he spends time in the press box again, which definitely happened a lot this season and his value plummets like it did before he showed up in the playoffs?


There are if's with any situation.


I am just saying when u get a chance to add 3 top tier prospects, by most hockey people's standards and clear cap space to add free agents or resign ur own, i think u do it.

I personally think Scheifele will be better than Kadri in the long run. They have the same offensive capabialties but Scheifele is also 3 inches taller than Kadri which IMO makes a huge difference, especially in the playoffs.

I also think Trouba will be better than Gardiner in the long run because of his all round game.

And when u can get a 1st round pick added to those 2 guys in what is described as a very deep draft, then IMO, you do it.

MY GOD. How many times do I have to explain that Kadri and Gardiner are High end NHL players

While Schiefele and Trouba could be busts as far as we know.

This is like arguing with a rock.

 

[Leafsforlife98]

your opinions mean little, because its apparent how delusional you are.

If we traded Gardiner in the middle of the season, we would have been LUCKY to get a top 15 1st round pick in this draft. He had 5 or 6 good games in the playoffs in which he played amazingly well, but that makes him untouchable? Or you act like he could NEVER regress like HE DID THIS YEAR!

Kadri played great at the beginning of the season for like the first 25-30 games and then dropped off extremely in the last 15 games where he had like what 1 or 2 goals in that span and in the playoffs where he was almost invisible. I am just saying, before we all believe Kadri is the real deal, and a point per game player, he has do it for more than a half of a season.

But I am talking to Leaf fans here. Where one moment Kadri is a has been, and low tier prospect who will never even make the nhl, to one of the best players in the league due do a half season of play, where in half of that half season he actually played brutal.

ONLY IN TORONTO

 

[Drakkor]

I understand that, but what if Kadri gets his 4.5-5 million and drops off next year?

What if Gardiner's play drops off and he spends time in the press box again, which definitely happened a lot this season and his value plummets like it did before he showed up in the playoffs?


There are if's with any situation.


I am just saying when u get a chance to add 3 top tier prospects, by most hockey people's standards and clear cap space to add free agents or resign ur own, i think u do it.

I personally think Scheifele will be better than Kadri in the long run. They have the same offensive capabialties but Scheifele is also 3 inches taller than Kadri which IMO makes a huge difference, especially in the playoffs.

I also think Trouba will be better than Gardiner in the long run because of his all round game.

And when u can get a 1st round pick added to those 2 guys in what is described as a very deep draft, then IMO, you do it.

The Kadri if, would be awesome honestly. To have a homegrown prospect grow into a player worthy of that kinda of pay speaks of the teams drafting and development success. But Kadri will get a bridge contract in the mean time.

You talk of Gardiners play tailing off and him spending time in the press box. He has already found success in the NHL and yes there will still be bumps in his development. But I like his potential and what he provides.

You don't trade players because you potentially see a problem down the road. You develop them and hope like hell that they force you to make hard decisions. Having a couple puck rushing defensemen isn't a bad thing.

 

[Leafsforlife98]

Scheifele wasnt even the highest scorer on his team. He had much better linemates than kadri.

Also Kadri was 2.25 PPG in the playoffs while Scheifele was 1.95 PPG with far superior linemates.

Also if you look at kadri's ability to make plays, it is far superior to Scheifele.

Furthermore, Kadri has proven he can produce 1st line numbers in the NHL, which would mean that he IS a 1st line player.

Yes Kadri was a 1st line player during the 1st half of the season. But he brutal the other half of the season and in the playoffs, where the guy couldn't win a faceoff if his life depended on it. That IMO doesn't make him a 1st line player. YET.

He still has A LOT to prove, and if u don't see that, I don't know what else to say.

 

[Leafsforlife98]

the Kadri if would be awesome honestly. To have a homegrown prospect grow into a player worthy of that kinda of pay speaks of the teams drafting and development success. But Kadri will get a bridge contract in the mean time.

You talk of Gardiners play tailing off and him spending time in the press box. He has already found success in the NHL and yes there will still be bumps in his development. But I like his potential and what he provides.

You don't trade players because you potentially see a problem down the road. You develop them and hope like hell that they force you to make hard decisions. Having a couple puck rushing defensemen isn't a bad thing.

I am not saying that they don't have serious potential. Not at all. And I do like both of these players very much. I am just saying that just because Gardiner played great in the playoffs and Kadri had a great start to the season doesn't make them all stars and untouchable players. They may REGRESS, or they may even GET BETTER. But people act like due to a great playoffs by Gardiner and a great start of the season by Kadri, that they are TOP TIER players.

People on here say Gardiner is a #1 defenceman and Kadri is a 1st line center, RIGHT NOW! Which is not true. They MAY BE one day, but not now, and if people watched the season, they would see that. They have a lot of growing to do.

I know Leaf fans love their players, but just cuz they are Toronto, doesn't make other teams top prospects that much worse.

 

[Duffman955]

Yes Kadri was a 1st line player during the 1st half of the season. But he brutal the other half of the season and in the playoffs, where the guy couldn't win a faceoff if his life depended on it. That IMO doesn't make him a 1st line player. YET.

He still has A LOT to prove, and if u don't see that, I don't know what else to say.

If you can't see that Scheifele has miles to improve before he is on Kadri's level, I don't know what else to say either

 

[Drakkor]

I am not saying that they don't have serious potential. Not at all. And I do like both of these players very much. I am just saying that just because Gardiner played great in the playoffs and Kadri had a great start to the season doesn't make them all stars and untouchable players. They may REGRESS, or they may even GET BETTER. But people act like due to a great playoffs by Gardiner and a great start of the season by Kadri, that they are TOP TIER players.

People on here say Gardiner is a #1 defenceman and Kadri is a 1st line center, RIGHT NOW! Which is not true. They MAY BE one day, but not now, and if people watched the season, they would see that. They have a lot of growing to do.

I know Leaf fans love their players, but just cuz they are Toronto, doesn't make other teams top prospects that much worse.

And your trading them for I hope these other players become as much as theses two young NHL players project to be.

Grass is greener syndrome to me.

 

[Leafsforlife98]

And your trading them for I hope these other players become as much as theses two young NHL players project to be.

Grass is greener syndrome to me.

But it is not just a Kadri and Gardiner for Scheifele and Trouba trade.

I wouldn't do that trade from a Leafs perspective at this point.


It is the fact that we would also get Winnipeg's 1st round pick in a deep draft where we would also get another great prospect. And we would open up salary cap space to get a good free agent.

Scheifele, Trouba, 1st round pick and Good Free agent (Clarkson, Horton etc) is better than Kadri and Gardiner. Bottom line!


If you asked anyone in hockey, who knows hockey what they would you want

Nazem Kadri
Jake Gardiner

OR

David Clarkson
Mark Scheifele (7th overall 2011)
Jacob Trouba (9th overall 2012)
13th overall pick in a DEEP DRAFT


What do you think they would pick???????

 

[Dreakmur]

But it is not just a Kadri and Gardiner for Scheifele and Trouba trade.

I wouldn't do that trade from a Leafs perspective at this point.


It is the fact that we would also get Winnipeg's 1st round pick in a deep draft where we would also get another great prospect. And we would open up salary cap space to get a good free agent.

Scheifele, Trouba, 1st round pick and Good Free agent (Clarkson, Horton etc) is better than Kadri and Gardiner. Bottom line!


If you asked anyone in hockey, who knows hockey what they would you want

Nazem Kadri
Jake Gardiner

OR

David Clarkson
Mark Scheifele (7th overall 2011)
Jacob Trouba (9th overall 2012)
13th overall pick in a DEEP DRAFT


What do you think they would pick???????

Why can't we sign Clarkson anyway?