Speculation: 2013 Armchair GM Thread Part VI

[Nolan11]

Why would we want to sign Brunner? and for 3.5???

Why Brunner: He is a 27 year old Top 9 right wing who is reportedly a good attitude, work ethic type guy who is improving. He made 12 goals and 26 pts in 44 games last year (for those who believe in projecting pace out to 82 games, that is 20 goals and 48 pts or 0.59 pts/game). Brunner seems to have 2nd line potential, but at worst is a 2nd/3rd line tweener.

RW is our biggest weakness. Signing Brunner for zero assets (other than what we would have to trade to clear cap) would give us depth to replace Havlat or Burns on RW, or to play with Pavelski on the 3rd line if Kennedy gets promoted to Top 6 role.

So, if we trade Havlat, Brunner could play with Marleau and Couture. If we trade Boyle, move Burns back to D and play Brunner with Hertl and Thornton. (Or leave Burns at RW and now have excellent depth) If we trade Burish +, we have that depth tween available to play when havlat or whoever falters.

We would of course prefer a one year, 2.0 M deal, but that is unlikely to work. 3.0 M for 1-2 years may be more reasonable target, 3.5 a bit overpay. Anything more than that I would pass too, even if we did clear the cap space. Brunner seems like a great candidate to add for depth now while Nieto, tierney and others develop.

 

[Juxtaposer]

1. Never mention Havlat ever for any reason at all on the Trade Forums. All you'll get is 29 other teams' fans talking about how he's a cap dump and how they feel bad for SJ for being stuck with him.

2. Similarly, never mention Demers for any reason ever at all on the Trade Forums. He doesn't have much trade value for one, and all you'll get is people calling him trash. Are you forgetting the Stephen Noesen debacle?

3. Don't make proposals for the Oilers' big-5. No matter how fair it is, or even if it favors them, they'll laugh and suggest Couture for Hemsky.

4. Don't ever try to trade an older player for a young player. Anyone over age 32 is trash on the Trade Forums.

 

[Nolan11]

No trades are worth discussing until after camp.

And Pavelski?

Pavs I added because we argued a eberle swap before we resigned him. I argued at the time that Pavs extended for same cap is = to Eberle. (maybe Pavs bit more valuable now, but at end of respective contracts, expect Eberle will be still in his prime). Not really serious on this one, just wanted shark fans opinions. (oil fans will not go for it, even if it made them better).

 

[Nolan11]

1. Never mention Havlat ever for any reason at all on the Trade Forums. All you'll get is 29 other teams' fans talking about how he's a cap dump and how they feel bad for SJ for being stuck with him.

2. Similarly, never mention Demers for any reason ever at all on the Trade Forums. He doesn't have much trade value for one, and all you'll get is people calling him trash. Are you forgetting the Stephen Noesen debacle?

3. Don't make proposals for the Oilers' big-5. No matter how fair it is, or even if it favors them, they'll laugh and suggest Couture for Hemsky.

4. Don't ever try to trade an older player for a young player. Anyone over age 32 is trash on the Trade Forums.

Noted.

Only one that might have traction was Boyle to Sens for futures (prospect + pick). Their fans seemed to think he would be a good add at the beginning of the off season.

I actually think Demers + Burish to canes could make sense. Not for enough value back, mind you, but they seem to need a #4-5 D and are currently short a forward (capgeek only 19 man roster).

I will refrain from starting threads over there unless we got some consensus here, first. Why start a war if your own side is not prepared?

 

[Nolan11]

just my opinion of course.

Thanks for the detailed reply. If we could give the oil burish for future considerations, would do it in a heartbeat. (Especially if we could then sign Brunner to a 2.25 M one year prove it contract).

If NJ were interested in Havlat + 2nd, I would target Urbom (LHD with some offense to help balance our attack) and would like to get one of their top goalie prospects (prefer Wedgewood) to supplement our farm team (he is 21, 3 years younger than Sateri and would be under contract long enough to bridge Stalock to our just drafted goalie prospect. Also looks to have bit more potential than sateri.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Noted.

Only one that might have traction was Boyle to Sens for futures (prospect + pick). Their fans seemed to think he would be a good add at the beginning of the off season.

I actually think Demers + Burish to canes could make sense. Not for enough value back, mind you, but they seem to need a #4-5 D and are currently short a forward (capgeek only 19 man roster).

I will refrain from starting threads over there unless we got some consensus here, first. Why start a war if your own side is not prepared?

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm extremely disenchanted with the Trade Forums these days.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

Why Brunner: He is a 27 year old Top 9 right wing who is reportedly a good attitude, work ethic type guy who is improving. He made 12 goals and 26 pts in 44 games last year (for those who believe in projecting pace out to 82 games, that is 20 goals and 48 pts or 0.59 pts/game). Brunner seems to have 2nd line potential, but at worst is a 2nd/3rd line tweener.

RW is our biggest weakness. Signing Brunner for zero assets (other than what we would have to trade to clear cap) would give us depth to replace Havlat or Burns on RW, or to play with Pavelski on the 3rd line if Kennedy gets promoted to Top 6 role.

So, if we trade Havlat, Brunner could play with Marleau and Couture. If we trade Boyle, move Burns back to D and play Brunner with Hertl and Thornton. (Or leave Burns at RW and now have excellent depth) If we trade Burish +, we have that depth tween available to play when havlat or whoever falters.

We would of course prefer a one year, 2.0 M deal, but that is unlikely to work. 3.0 M for 1-2 years may be more reasonable target, 3.5 a bit overpay. Anything more than that I would pass too, even if we did clear the cap space. Brunner seems like a great candidate to add for depth now while Nieto, tierney and others develop.

We already have two winger tweeners in Kennedy and Torres. There is a reason Brunner hasn't been signed yet and when/if he is signed it won't be at 3.5 mil. If he comes on a tryout or is signed for really cheap, I don't care. I don't want to dump players like Havlat who is a lot better than Brunner when healthy or Demers who is a good young Dman because them Hannan will be playing. Burish I have no problem dumping but that isn't likely and I don't want to give up good assets to do it. It isn't like he is making 4 mil for 3 more years.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm extremely disenchanted with the Trade Forums these days.

Same, everything posted on there ends up being a war between fan bases mostly. Sometimes the deals are pretty fair and end up with both fan bases agreeing but those are rare.

 

[hohosaregood]

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm extremely disenchanted with the Trade Forums these days.

It's really just a place for the sake of arguing.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's really just a place for the sake of arguing.

I love it. It feeds me.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I love it. It feeds me.

I didn't know you were a troll, Patty.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Why start a war if your own side is not prepared?

Subtle political jab?

I'd certainly like to ask your President that question.

 

[hockfan1991]

Why Brunner: He is a 27 year old Top 9 right wing who is reportedly a good attitude, work ethic type guy who is improving. He made 12 goals and 26 pts in 44 games last year (for those who believe in projecting pace out to 82 games, that is 20 goals and 48 pts or 0.59 pts/game). Brunner seems to have 2nd line potential, but at worst is a 2nd/3rd line tweener.

RW is our biggest weakness. Signing Brunner for zero assets (other than what we would have to trade to clear cap) would give us depth to replace Havlat or Burns on RW, or to play with Pavelski on the 3rd line if Kennedy gets promoted to Top 6 role.

So, if we trade Havlat, Brunner could play with Marleau and Couture. If we trade Boyle, move Burns back to D and play Brunner with Hertl and Thornton. (Or leave Burns at RW and now have excellent depth) If we trade Burish +, we have that depth tween available to play when havlat or whoever falters.

We would of course prefer a one year, 2.0 M deal, but that is unlikely to work. 3.0 M for 1-2 years may be more reasonable target, 3.5 a bit overpay. Anything more than that I would pass too, even if we did clear the cap space. Brunner seems like a great candidate to add for depth now while Nieto, tierney and others develop.

Left wing is more concerning but we are short wingers in general

 

[Grave]

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm extremely disenchanted with the Trade Forums these days.

Surprised you lasted that long, Halak, Boyes and a 3nd for Joe Pavelski & Tronton.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Surprised you lasted that long, Halak, Boyes and a 3nd for Joe Pavelski & Tronton.

It's Halak, Ryder, 2nd, loser.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

It's Halak, Ryder, 2nd, loser.

Such an awesome trade in hindsight. Damn you Marleau.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I didn't know you were a troll, Patty.

I'm the smartest on the ice for a reason.

 

[Nolan11]

Subtle political jab?

I'd certainly like to ask your President that question.

More a jab at previous administations, but it does apply to current situations. One should really line up your allies before taking on major conflicts.

As to jux's comments, I have been appalled at how easily the discussions over there spin out of all reason. Some discussions are worth it, but they are getting further and further between the flame wars.

 

[thrillermiller89]

It's a shame we have cap dollars tied up into players like Sheppard, Desjardin, and Burish...

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing us give PTO's to guys like

Dan Cleary (I know he's rumored to be taking a PTO in DET, but he's a playoff warrior)
Chad Larose (quality bottom 6-er)
Dave Steckel (better version of Desi)

Rolling a new 4th line of Cleary-Steckel-Larose could be beneficial to our team... Granted, I haven't seen Larose and Steckel play that much in the last year or so. Perhaps someone can lend some insight.

Beyond that, there are other players but I doubt they want to take 4th line minutes. Guys like Wellwood, Brunner, Morrow, Gagne come to mind. But as I said, they're looking for something better.

 

[SJeasy]

It's a shame we have cap dollars tied up into players like Sheppard, Desjardin, and Burish...

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing us give PTO's to guys like

Dan Cleary (I know he's rumored to be taking a PTO in DET, but he's a playoff warrior)
Chad Larose (quality bottom 6-er)
Dave Steckel (better version of Desi)

Rolling a new 4th line of Cleary-Steckel-Larose could be beneficial to our team... Granted, I haven't seen Larose and Steckel play that much in the last year or so. Perhaps someone can lend some insight.

Beyond that, there are other players but I doubt they want to take 4th line minutes. Guys like Wellwood, Brunner, Morrow, Gagne come to mind. But as I said, they're looking for something better.

It isn't just cap dollars, contract slots are tied up. And the only waste of dollars is Burish who is well above minimum. Sheppard, Desi, and Wingels are barely over minimum. That doesn't waste cap space; it does take up contract slots.

Steckel is slow, a faceoff specialist. They don't need to get slower, again. LaRose had some noise around his departure; I'm not sure he still wants to play hockey. Cleary has lost a step or three, another slowster.

I could live with Wellwood or Brunner, particularly Wellwood as he is still productive and serves and area of need. There are questions around Brunner's points dropoff in the second half of last season and he is a pure F3 which is not a Sharks' need. Gagne and Morrow are way over the hill. The idea is to pick someone who will do well now not someone whose time is long past. It is not conducive to playoff success to field and wheelchairs and walkers lineup.

 

[thrillermiller89]

It isn't just cap dollars, contract slots are tied up. And the only waste of dollars is Burish who is well above minimum. Sheppard, Desi, and Wingels are barely over minimum. That doesn't waste cap space; it does take up contract slots.

Steckel is slow, a faceoff specialist. They don't need to get slower, again. LaRose had some noise around his departure; I'm not sure he still wants to play hockey. Cleary has lost a step or three, another slowster.

I could live with Wellwood or Brunner, particularly Wellwood as he is still productive and serves and area of need. There are questions around Brunner's points dropoff in the second half of last season and he is a pure F3 which is not a Sharks' need. Gagne and Morrow are way over the hill. The idea is to pick someone who will do well now not someone whose time is long past. It is not conducive to playoff success to field and wheelchairs and walkers lineup.

Ya but we cant get wellwood or brunner because they'd want more playing time than we could offer

 

[DG93]

Ya but we cant get wellwood or brunner because they'd want more playing time than we could offer

Not if Havlat isn't going to be playing. We could roll Marleau-Couture-Wellwood. We could also throw Brunner on a line w/ Jumbo/Burns if Hertl could use some seasoning in the AHL...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Damien Brunner ($2.750m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Kyle Wellwood ($2.000m)
James Sheppard ($0.830m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
Adam Burish ($1.850m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Matt Irwin ($1.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Jason Demers ($1.500m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m)
Scott Hannan ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($0.625m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,531,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $768,333

 

[Barrie22]

Not if Havlat isn't going to be playing. We could roll Marleau-Couture-Wellwood. We could also throw Brunner on a line w/ Jumbo/Burns if Hertl could use some seasoning in the AHL...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Damien Brunner ($2.750m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Kyle Wellwood ($2.000m)
James Sheppard ($0.830m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
Adam Burish ($1.850m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Matt Irwin ($1.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Jason Demers ($1.500m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m)
Scott Hannan ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($0.625m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,531,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $768,333

And what do you do once havlat is healthy and cleared to play again? We go from having to just clear 800k off the team to needing to clear 5 million off of the roster.

Keep in mind no team is going to trade for havlat and give up just a pick. So that means that a few million will also be coming back in a trade.

Very interested to see your team with a healthy havlat and his extra 5 million on that roster. Just to see how you make that roster work.

 

[DG93]

And what do you do once havlat is healthy and cleared to play again? We go from having to just clear 800k off the team to needing to clear 5 million off of the roster.

Keep in mind no team is going to trade for havlat and give up just a pick. So that means that a few million will also be coming back in a trade.

Very interested to see your team with a healthy havlat and his extra 5 million on that roster. Just to see how you make that roster work.

Sorry if you misunderstood, but I was assuming Havlat would not be playing in SJ at all and would be on LTIR...

 

[vilpertti]

Sorry if you misunderstood, but I was assuming Havlat would not be playing in SJ at all and would be on LTIR...

That's not a very likely scenario.