Proposal: 1st-2nd line centre to St.louis

  • Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) We may experience a temporary downtime. Thanks for the patience.

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
Let's be honest here guys, this talk of Spezza just being mildly better than Roy is pretty ridiculous. Roy can't hold Spezza's jock at this point. I'd be concerned about giving up Rattie in the deal because then we're basically left with no offensive prospects. That's unacceptable. Why Armstrong is allergic to signing a key free agent I'll never know. Stastny makes more sense than Spezza, so I'm expecting us to give up a Pejorative Slured return for Spezza.
We also have to factor in weather FAs even want to sign onto this cursed team. Roy was just a **** it...we got someone. Vinny didn't want to sign with us, and from what I read, army's offer was up there with Phillies. Granted were lucky he didn't sign here. Roy was literally all there was.
 

Alklha

Registered User
Sep 7, 2011
16,875
2,751
Let's be honest here guys, this talk of Spezza just being mildly better than Roy is pretty ridiculous. Roy can't hold Spezza's jock at this point. I'd be concerned about giving up Rattie in the deal because then we're basically left with no offensive prospects. That's unacceptable. Why Armstrong is allergic to signing a key free agent I'll never know. Stastny makes more sense than Spezza, so I'm expecting us to give up a Pejorative Slured return for Spezza.

Got to lay the goundwork on trades in case your first choices don't come together. Hell, the Bouwmeester and Miller trade discussion started 6+ months prior to the trades going down. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Per Blues Beat writer Jeremy Rutherford concerning a trade or via free agency for a much needed Center :

I think Armstrong will explore the trade market prior to free agency. I believe where there's smoke, there is fire regarding the Jason Spezza rumors. He could be a good addition to this club and I think he's a player that Armstrong has been long and hard at. If there's a match there with Ottawa, that could be a possibility. If Armstrong can't swing a deal, then free agency is an option. ( insert Stastny here ) But everybody knows, teams pay way too much in free agency and that hasn't been the Blues' MO.

Rattie and Berglund are rumored going to Ottawa, is it enough? Not if Spezza has asked for a trade and there are only a limited number of teams that are willing to make that type of deal, then I don't think the Senators have a whole lot of leverage. We'll see.

The flip side to the smoke/fire argument is the Senators really wanted Chris Stewart, and their interest in him continued up until his injury in Buffalo. Our reported interest in Spezza might date from only being willing to package Stewart for Spezza in any Ottawa trade. It's all guesswork. We'll have an interest in any good centre available, I'm just not sure I believe that we are pushing for Spezza.

It'll be interesting to see if Army totally bypasses the chance at Statsny and trades at the draft or if he waits till either he signs or misses out on Statsny.

We'll have held detailed discussion with Stastny before the draft, we'll know where we stand. If we are trading then I think he has given us his decision.
 

Majorityof1

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
8,445
7,028
Central Florida
Per Blues Beat writer Jeremy Rutherford concerning a trade or via free agency for a much needed Center :

I think Armstrong will explore the trade market prior to free agency. I believe where there's smoke, there is fire regarding the Jason Spezza rumors. He could be a good addition to this club and I think he's a player that Armstrong has been long and hard at. If there's a match there with Ottawa, that could be a possibility. If Armstrong can't swing a deal, then free agency is an option. ( insert Stastny here ) But everybody knows, teams pay way too much in free agency and that hasn't been the Blues' MO.

This makes no sense to me. First, we were in on Free Agency last year. we made offers to Lecavalier and Fillppula. Second, how do you think you keep the players when their contracts run out. If we trade for Spezza, we are going to have to negotiate a new contract with him next year, or it will be a huge waste of assets. We traded for Miller, and now if we want to keep him (I know its debatable if we do), we have to sign him again. Set a top value on a player, make your pitch, and if another team offers crazy money, then explore option B. It is stupid to say free agency will cost too much without exploring it, and then give away assets in a trade for a player that doesn't fit as well and you'll have to resign the next year anyway.
 
Apr 30, 2012
21,065
5,479
St. Louis, MO
We also have to factor in weather FAs even want to sign onto this cursed team. Roy was just a **** it...we got someone. Vinny didn't want to sign with us, and from what I read, army's offer was up there with Phillies. Granted were lucky he didn't sign here. Roy was literally all there was.

We are a good enough team that people will be willing to sign with us. The only reason we didn't land Vinny, and it's luck for us, is that he wanted to stay on the east coast. Roy was definitely a gamble and it failed.
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
We are a good enough team that people will be willing to sign with us. The only reason we didn't land Vinny, and it's luck for us, is that he wanted to stay on the east coast. Roy was definitely a gamble and it failed.

Semi what I was getting at. It dosnt seem like the blues are a big draw. Vinny and fillpula(sp) were simply drawn to more appealing locations for reasons.


With all the talk, if we don't pull the trigger on spezza, I'll pray statsny hits FA... If we can land one of those guys and sign another top 6/9 guy I'll actually feel extremely good for '15. I'd really like to see something change with the D, but I don't see much in FA, or trade market
 
Apr 30, 2012
21,065
5,479
St. Louis, MO
Semi what I was getting at. It dosnt seem like the blues are a big draw. Vinny and fillpula(sp) were simply drawn to more appealing locations for reasons.


With all the talk, if we don't pull the trigger on spezza, I'll pray statsny hits FA... If we can land one of those guys and sign another top 6/9 guy I'll actually feel extremely good for '15. I'd really like to see something change with the D, but I don't see much in FA, or trade market

Well I think Vinny wanted to stay on the east coast for family reasons. Pretty hard to argue with that on his end. Yeah one of Stastny or Spezza is pretty much a must.
 

Alklha

Registered User
Sep 7, 2011
16,875
2,751
Armstrong said we made competitive offers, who knows what that means. Maybe we offered similar cap hits with fewer years, competitive in a sense, but a lot less attractive. Armstrong also spoke last year about having to "sell St. Louis" to players, but I don't really buy that. If we are having a problem attracting players, and I'm not sure that we do, then it is down to how Armstrong is selling the organisation to UFA's. Nothing to do with preconceptions about the city he alluded to last year.
 

Multimoodia

Sicker Than Usual
Nov 6, 2010
3,187
101
The Range
Armstrong said we made competitive offers, who knows what that means. Maybe we offered similar cap hits with fewer years, competitive in a sense, but a lot less attractive. Armstrong also spoke last year about having to "sell St. Louis" to players, but I don't really buy that. If we are having a problem attracting players, and I'm not sure that we do, then it is down to how Armstrong is selling the organisation to UFA's. Nothing to do with preconceptions about the city he alluded to last year.
Oh please.

Look, I am not one to trash the fair city of St. Louis nor the St. Louis Blues hockey club, but there are a number of places that are a far better draw than St. Louis, in particular for a younger player.

If a player wants a real shot at the cup, Blues are a harder sell.
If a player is looking for a market where hockey is the main thing, see above.
Maybe the younger player enjoys nightlife? Nope.
Perhaps the Canadian boy is tired of winter. Once again, not St. Louis.
Shorter road trips? Even with the NHL re-balancing tha's not going to be true of any western team.

I'm not saying St. Louis is the armpit of the NHL or anything. I am saying that selling a FA on St. Louis is more difficult than one would initially think.
 

Multimoodia

Sicker Than Usual
Nov 6, 2010
3,187
101
The Range
Also on the whole Spezza thing:

Spezza's defense is and has been terrible. Last year (injury or not) it was so bad that everyone finally noticed. The issue here is that for the Blues current system the center has more defensive responsibilities than the wingers. A lot more.

Coupled with his injury concerns (back, groin, etc.) is it really a smart idea for the Blues to acquire such a player? Obviously that in part depends upon cost, but if the cost is anywhere near what some of the Senator fans have been suggesting I believe the answer is no.
The Blues do not have the requisite parts to both take advantage of Spezza's skill and to replace what would be required to acquire him.

I would say Armstrong would not overpay...but then I no longer have proof of that.
 

Alklha

Registered User
Sep 7, 2011
16,875
2,751
Oh please.

Look, I am not one to trash the fair city of St. Louis nor the St. Louis Blues hockey club, but there are a number of places that are a far better draw than St. Louis, in particular for a younger player.

If a player wants a real shot at the cup, Blues are a harder sell.
If a player is looking for a market where hockey is the main thing, see above.
Maybe the younger player enjoys nightlife? Nope.
Perhaps the Canadian boy is tired of winter. Once again, not St. Louis.
Shorter road trips? Even with the NHL re-balancing tha's not going to be true of any western team.

I'm not saying St. Louis is the armpit of the NHL or anything. I am saying that selling a FA on St. Louis is more difficult than one would initially think.

Except my point was addressing Armstrong making a comment alluding to preconceptions about the city hampering bids on UFA's, which I still don't really believe. If you have a good offer from the Blues on the table then you pick up your phone and call someone that has played for the Blues. I know some find it difficult to believe, but as an organisation and place to live they are always viewed very favourably. I think it was Pierre McGuire who was going on about how much ex-players loved St. Louis during a broadcast earlier this season.

If you want to list reasons why a player might not find St. Louis as the best destination for him then great. They are all correct (except the young player one really, players are typically in their late 20's/early 30's and have families by the time they hit UFA). The problem with that is you can make that list with every team in the League. No team can appeal to every player, and it is probably rare that a team ticks every box on a players list... that doesn't mean that it is difficult to attract players.
 

OCTA8ON*

Guest
Spezza doesn't play good enough defense for 60, bad idea.

Okay, and if we don't get Statsny, then what do we do? Kesler apparently doesn't have St. Louis as one of his teams that he would consider going to. All I hear is people complaining about potential players that we could get including Spezza. Guess what? No player is perfect, and no team that has won the cup has had perfect stars either. Get over it. Spezza is offensively better than any Blues forwards for the past 8 years. Make a good trade and slot him in between Schwartz and Tarasenko. The Steen-Backes-Oshie line cannot and will not be capable of getting us to the cup.
 

OCTA8ON*

Guest
Hfboards Logic: Spezza isn't good enough defensively. Thus, whatever offensive capabilities he may have don't matter, even though our issue in the post season was offensive production and power play logistics.

Here are some highlights from this season









I can't believe people are even putting Roy and Spezza in the same sentence. Just wow...
 

Multimoodia

Sicker Than Usual
Nov 6, 2010
3,187
101
The Range
Except my point was addressing Armstrong making a comment alluding to preconceptions about the city hampering bids on UFA's, which I still don't really believe. If you have a good offer from the Blues on the table then you pick up your phone and call someone that has played for the Blues. I know some find it difficult to believe, but as an organisation and place to live they are always viewed very favourably. I think it was Pierre McGuire who was going on about how much ex-players loved St. Louis during a broadcast earlier this season.

Which is why it is easier to get some of the older players to come to St. Louis. They're hoping for one last run and they typically have a family where the St. Louis area will at least interest them.
Legions of former players talking about how great the St. Louis area/team is great and all, but that only really intrigues a player if they plan to stay with the Blues to the end of their contract.

If you want to list reasons why a player might not find St. Louis as the best destination for him then great. They are all correct (except the young player one really, players are typically in their late 20's/early 30's and have families by the time they hit UFA).

Some of them do, some of them do not. Many may be married but not yet blessed with children. For some it would not matter, they still appreciate the night life.
Or they look for a more cosmopolitan metro than St. Louis.
My point on this was St. Louis is pretty much the definition of a fly-over. As such a player has to be convinced by the strength of the offer and the team, the other inherent advantages do not show up until a player is later in his career.
Now to its credit, St. Louis also lacks some of the disadvantages some of the other cities have as well. Examples: Lack of focus and pressure seen in Canadian cities, The climate is not too warm or too cold, etc.

The problem with that is you can make that list with every team in the League. No team can appeal to every player,

Toronto does, just ask their fans.

and it is probably rare that a team ticks every box on a players list... that doesn't mean that it is difficult to attract players.

Look, in a previous lifetime I often had to get more premier talent to work in the St. Louis area. I noticed right away that the younger crowd (which becomes increasingly older each year, but not the point) was a much harder sell to come to St. Louis than other areas. Essentially I always had to out-bid, which fortunately the company understood. There were no discounts since there were no visible inherent advantages.
Now, once the prospective employee I needed for the department had children (in particular just before school-age) then it was an easier sell.

Point is St. Louis is not an easy sell, it is rather difficult in a variety of arenas and I would suspect there is very little change when it comes to the St. Louis Blues attempting to attain talented individuals. I would suspect the St. Louis Rams have a very similar issue.

I am not saying St. Louis is a hard sell, I am saying that St. Louis has no inherent advantages to supplement the contract price and/or current team.
 

Multimoodia

Sicker Than Usual
Nov 6, 2010
3,187
101
The Range
Hfboards Logic: Spezza isn't good enough defensively. Thus, whatever offensive capabilities he may have don't matter, even though our issue in the post season was offensive production and power play logistics.

No, but we do recall what happened when other players have been brought in that did not mesh well with the current style the Blues employ. Traditionally it has not been, shall we say, an unqualified success.

I can't believe people are even putting Roy and Spezza in the same sentence. Just wow...

Yeah, that one is quite a bit over the top to me. Spezza is talented enough to excel in almost any system he plays in, it's just the degree by which he does that concerns me. Also concerning is whether or not Spezza's body is going to let his talent go through.



Also of concern is that Hitchcock is not getting any younger and I'd hate to see Spezza's play spike his blood pressure.
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
Hfboards Logic: Spezza isn't good enough defensively. Thus, whatever offensive capabilities he may have don't matter, even though our issue in the post season was offensive production and power play logistics.

Here are some highlights from this season









I can't believe people are even putting Roy and Spezza in the same sentence. Just wow...


At least if we get spezza...well save hitch from taking anti depression pills twice a year
 
Apr 30, 2012
21,065
5,479
St. Louis, MO
Spezza's injury history worries me more than his defensive play. It's time this team got more offensive anyway. We aren't going to win by just being a muck and grind team. Plus, Schwartz and Tarasenko are great possession players, so I think they'd be able to help mask some of Spezza's deficiencies.
 

Note Worthy

History Made
Oct 26, 2011
10,114
3,722
St. Louis, MO
Sens fan here, do you think a package involving Shattenkirk and Spezza would work?

If Spezza had some term then sure, I'd be pretty inclined to.

But he doesn't. He only has one year on his contract before he's an UFA so I wouldn't do Shatty for someone that might sign here after his contract is up. Spezza is a fantastic player that we could use and most of us here get that. It's not that we think he sucks. But his age and term really hinder his trade value right now.

Berglund + Rattie + pick is pretty decent for an aging player that is one year away from UFA.
 

OCTA8ON*

Guest
No, but we do recall what happened when other players have been brought in that did not mesh well with the current style the Blues employ. Traditionally it has not been, shall we say, an unqualified success.



Yeah, that one is quite a bit over the top to me. Spezza is talented enough to excel in almost any system he plays in, it's just the degree by which he does that concerns me. Also concerning is whether or not Spezza's body is going to let his talent go through.



Also of concern is that Hitchcock is not getting any younger and I'd hate to see Spezza's play spike his blood pressure.

And what about team canada's perfect execution of Hitch's defensive system? That team did not even mostly consist of 2 way grinders (aside from Bergeron). I'm not worried about defense. We have enough 2 way forwards. It's time to score goals and realize that the best defense is offense.
 

Multimoodia

Sicker Than Usual
Nov 6, 2010
3,187
101
The Range
And what about team canada's perfect execution of Hitch's defensive system? That team did not even mostly consist of 2 way grinders (aside from Bergeron). I'm not worried about defense. We have enough 2 way forwards. It's time to score goals and realize that the best defense is offense.

You misunderstand.
I am completely in favor of giving up a bit of defense for offense, however I have noticed that the Blues seem reluctant to do so in their style of play. Hitchcock bent a bit this year (thankfully) and the defense was allowed to a free-er hand to jump into the play when they saw an opportunity. By the end of the year this had been curtailed, whether that is result of injuries, result of the team just trying to make it to the playoffs, etc. I have no idea.

As such I have no issue, if the Blues doctors believe that Spezza can realistically play 70+ games/season (and additional games in the postseason) in the West, with trading for Spezza as long as Armstrong manages to not panic and thus give up far too much.
What concerns me is that Spezza has not had the best of health, that his game may not translate well with a Blues team which is primarily defensive focused, that Armstrong may end up panicking again and giving up far too much for a 30-year old player with an injury history whose deal expires in 2015 and may think he is worth updwards of 8 million/season.
Also, the trade has to not kill the balance/chemistry/etc. of the team.

I like the idea of Spezza, it's simply that I'm not sure how well the idea of Spezza is going to blend with the reality of Spezza.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad