Proposal: 1st-2nd line centre to St.louis

[Atlantics27]

I'm thinking shattenkirk + berglund for a centre that can produce, maybe stastny, what do you guys think?

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[ExJbeck]

well not for Stastny, he is ufa, maybe for that caliber of player though.

 

[BlueDream]

We are gonna talk about this for the next two months only for Stastny to sign here on July 1st and we give up no assets.

 

[Note Worthy]

We are gonna talk about this for the next two months only for Stastny to sign here on July 1st and we give up no assets.

I really hope so.

 

[David Dennison]

We are gonna talk about this for the next two months only for Stastny to sign here on July 1st and we give up no assets.

Yeah, trading Shattenkirk would really hurt our defense. Polak and Jackman are nice defensive defenseman, but neither is someone you want playing 21-22 minutes a night. Who is going to come close to Shattenkirk that we can get in free agency? Nobody.

 

[Colt 55]

I honestly think it will be Spezza who comes here

 

[BlueDream]

Yeah, trading Shattenkirk would really hurt our defense. Polak and Jackman are nice defensive defenseman, but neither is someone you want playing 21-22 minutes a night. Who is going to come close to Shattenkirk that we can get in free agency? Nobody.

I agree. And if you include Berglund in a deal with Shattenkirk, then we would really have absolutely nothing left to trade for a Shattenkirk replacement. That just wouldn't be smart.

Our powerplay would be even worse without Shattenkirk too. It'd go from Shattenkirk or Steen being the only ones that fire shots from the point, to everybody just passing the puck to Steen to shoot (and therefore it getting blocked since the other team would know exactly what's coming). He helps us out a lot. If we didn't have his puck-moving ability, I'm not sure my eyes could withstand watching Jackman and Polak attempt it.

 

[ExJbeck]

I honestly think it will be Spezza who comes here

If not Paulie, then I think so to. My belief is we were seriously considering the move at the deadline and the price was too high. I hope it doesn't get to that point.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

We shouldn't be making any trades until we know where we stand with Stastny.

 

[Majorityof1]

Stasny is ideal, obviously. He has reasons to come to the Lou. So hopefully, (fingers crossed, knock on wood, sacrifice a bucket of extra crispy chicken to the pagan gods) he signs with us and we don't have to trade anything to get that much needed center piece. Even if we don't get him, there are other guys available as UFAs. Grabovski, Legwand, Cammalleri, Olli Jokinen, Bolland, Saku Koivu (one year deal and try again next year), or Santorelli are all decent options to various degrees.

Let's look at them...

Grabovski
Pros: Very offensively creative. Eastern European and former KHL so he has stuff in common with Frank.
Cons: Not a fan of defensive systems. Rumored to be a package with a buddy of his.
Verdict: Not sure we can sign him, but great 2nd option to Stasny.

Legwand
Pros: Good two-way forward. Would fit very well in our system. Big body, could create traffic for the snipers.
Cons:Injury prone and inconsistent. He has never garnered 60 points.
Verdict: A lower tiered option. I wouldn't dance through the streets if we got him, but I wouldn't hate it like the Roy signing. Would want a competitive salary to provide room for another winger.

Cammallerri
Pros:Offensively talented. Did well mentoring younger players this year in Calgary. Good shooter. Former multiple 30 goal scorer. Can play any forward spot.
Cons: Not a natural center. Has struggled the past few seasons before this. Is more of a sniper where we want the kids to be the ones shooting.
Verdict: I'd like to sign him but would prefer he be a third line depth player who can slot up with injuries. Not an ideal fit for the 2nd line but if we get desperate, we could do a lot worse.

Jokinen
Pros: Big offensive center. Former 30 goal scorer.
Cons: Older than the rest at 35. He, like Cammalleri is more of a shooter. But he historically plays poorly with other shooters. Schwartz and he would fit, but not Tarasenko. On the obvious downside of his career. Inconsistent player.
Verdict: Low on my list. If we did get him, I'd reshuffle the lines and pair him with Osh and Schwartz to be playmakers and move Frank up with Steen and Backes.

Bolland
Pros: Very good defensively. Has the grit and in-your-face attitude people want around playoff time and may lose with veterans leaving. Yet has skill as well. Young for a UFA at 27.
Cons:Like Legwand, defensive responsibility has kept offensive totals lower. Was hurt for most of this year (sliced tendon-ouch!!).
Verdict: If he is well healed from injury, he wouldn't be a terrible pick-up as he would fit in well. He is a slightly better, bigger Sobotka. Would be interesting to see him given a little more offensive freedom with SOB taking the other teams top lines.

Koivu
Pros: How can you not like Koivu? He is a fireball and makes other players better, both through his play and inspiration. Great set-up guy. Great passion. Would be a tremendous locker room presence.
Cons: He's 39. And...well...he's been playing like a 39 year old.
Verdict: 5 years ago, I'd have loved it. Always loved this guy. Now, I wouldn't be happy with the move. He's be a third liner with Sobotka as our 2nd liner. Not a fix. Only a depth move.

Santorelli
Pros: Very creative. Good playmaking skills. Plays all 3 forward positions. Was on a pace last year for his best season yet. Dirt cheap contract last year.
Cons: Never really had success in NHL. Not that great defensively. Also lacks size. Coming off shoulder surgery.
Verdict: Probably not a good pick-up, but he only cost $500k last year. If we can get him that cheap and fail to score anyone else, I'd take a flyer for some depth. Try him with the kids and see what his creativity sparks with their skill. If it doesn't work, bring Sobotka up and work on a deadline deal.

So while the drop off is huge after Stasny, there are some guys who might work. If we trade a piece like Shattenkirk, there is really only one guy to replace him, Niskanen. I actually want Niskanen and Shatty both though. If we trade Shatty and lose out on Nikanen, all the defensive free agents are more stay at home types, in their late 30s or both.

 

[Dbrownss]

Stasny is ideal, obviously. He has reasons to come to the Lou. So hopefully, (fingers crossed, knock on wood, sacrifice a bucket of extra crispy chicken to the pagan gods) he signs with us and we don't have to trade anything to get that much needed center piece. Even if we don't get him, there are other guys available as UFAs. Grabovski, Legwand, Cammalleri, Olli Jokinen, Bolland, Saku Koivu (one year deal and try again next year), or Santorelli are all decent options to various degrees.

Let's look at them...

Grabovski
Pros: Very offensively creative. Eastern European and former KHL so he has stuff in common with Frank.
Cons: Not a fan of defensive systems. Rumored to be a package with a buddy of his.
Verdict: Not sure we can sign him, but great 2nd option to Stasny.

Legwand
Pros: Good two-way forward. Would fit very well in our system. Big body, could create traffic for the snipers.
Cons:Injury prone and inconsistent. He has never garnered 60 points.
Verdict: A lower tiered option. I wouldn't dance through the streets if we got him, but I wouldn't hate it like the Roy signing. Would want a competitive salary to provide room for another winger.

Cammallerri
Pros:Offensively talented. Did well mentoring younger players this year in Calgary. Good shooter. Former multiple 30 goal scorer. Can play any forward spot.
Cons: Not a natural center. Has struggled the past few seasons before this. Is more of a sniper where we want the kids to be the ones shooting.
Verdict: I'd like to sign him but would prefer he be a third line depth player who can slot up with injuries. Not an ideal fit for the 2nd line but if we get desperate, we could do a lot worse.

Jokinen
Pros: Big offensive center. Former 30 goal scorer.
Cons: Older than the rest at 35. He, like Cammallerri is more of a shooter. But he historically plays poorly with other shooters. Schwartz and he would fit, but not Tarasenko. On the obvious downside of his career. Inconsistent player.
Verdict: Low on my list. If we did get him, I'd reshuffle the lines and pair him with Osh and Schwartz to be playmakers and move Frank up with Steen and Backes.

Bolland
Pros: Very good defensively. Has the grit and in-your-face attitude people want around playoff time and may lose with veterans leaving. Yet has skill as well. Young for a UFA at 27.
Cons:Like Legwand, defensive responsibility has kept offensive totals lower. Was hurt for most of this year (sliced tendon-ouch!!).
Verdict: If he is well healed from injury, he wouldn't be a terrible pick-up as he would fit in well. He is a slightly better, bigger Sobotka. Would be interesting to see him given a little more offensive freedom with SOB taking the other teams top lines.

Koivu
Pros: How can you not like Koivu? He is a fireball and makes other players better, both through his play and inspiration. Great set-up guy. Great passion. Would be a tremendous locker room presence.
Cons: He's 39. And...well...he's been playing like a 39 year old.
Verdict: 5 years ago, I'd have loved it. Always loved this guy. Now, I wouldn't be happy with the move. He's be a third liner with Sobotka as our 2nd liner. Not a fix. Only a depth move.

Santorelli
Pros: Very creative. Good playmaking skills. Plays all 3 forward positions. Was on a pace last year for his best season yet. Dirt cheap contract last year.
Cons: Never really had success in NHL. Not that great defensively. Also lacks size. Coming off shoulder surgery.
Verdict: Probably not a good pick-up, but he only cost $500k last year. If we can get him that cheap and fail to score anyone else, I'd take a flyer for some depth. Try him with the kids and see what his creativity sparks with their skill. If it doesn't work, bring Sobotka up and work on a deadline deal.

So while the drop off is huge after Stasny, there are some guys who might work. If we trade a piece like Shattenkirk, there is really only one guy to replace him, Niskanen. I actually want Niskanen and Shatty both though. If we trade Shatty and lose out on Nikanen, all the defensive free agents are more stay at home types, in their late 30s or both.

Great breakdown. I'm going to stay annoyingly optimistic for statsney.... and we pick up grabo or Cammallerri too.

Niskanen is gonna get paid, doubt we could afford him too

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Nice write up Majority. I just have one teeny-tiny little nitpick. Legwand did actually hit 60 points once. If we can't sign Stastny, I wouldn't mind going after the Grabovski/Kulemin combo. Kulemin would be a nice fit on the third line with Sobotka. If we sign them as a pair I'd imagine we'd have something that looks like:
Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Grabovski-Tarasenko
Berglund(or trade him)/Jaskin-Sobotka-Kulemin
Porter/Ott(if signed for cheap)-Lapierre-Cracknell/Reaves

The more I think about it, the more I think we need to hold on to Shattenkirk, at least for now. If we're moving him, we need to make sure we can replace him, and I just don't see that on this year's free agent market.

 

[Majorityof1]

Nice write up Majority. I just have one teeny-tiny little nitpick. Legwand did actually hit 60 points once. If we can't sign Stastny, I wouldn't mind going after the Grabovski/Kulemin combo. Kulemin would be a nice fit on the third line with Sobotka. If we sign them as a pair I'd imagine we'd have something that looks like:
Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Grabovski-Tarasenko
Berglund(or trade him)/Jaskin-Sobotka-Kulemin
Porter/Ott(if signed for cheap)-Lapierre-Cracknell/Reaves

The more I think about it, the more I think we need to hold on to Shattenkirk, at least for now. If we're moving him, we need to make sure we can replace him, and I just don't see that on this year's free agent market.

Yeah, if we HAD to get Kulemin to grab Grabovski, I'd be down. I definitely think we need a 3rd line scoring wing. He wouldn't be my first choice, but the drop after Grabovski is pretty steep. We'd be better with Grabo and Kumelin then say Legwand and Cammalleri.

You are right, Legwand did hit 60 in 06-7. I missed it. Still, my point stands. 12 seasons with 60+ games and 1 60 point season is not a top offensive threat. He's only been over 50 3 times and it took him 83 games to do it this year

Oh and to pre-empt other nit-picks, I'll nitpick myself. Bolland is taller than Sobotka, but not heavier. So he is not a bigger better version of sobotka. Anyway, back to discussing options.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I'll be honest, the Grabo/Kulemin combo is my preference if we can't sign Stastny if we won't be getting into the trade market. Kulemin and Sobotka would make one hell of a nasty pair to play against on the third line. Plus, I think Kulemin could produce a bit more offensively if he were to come here. Toronto used him in a shutdown role. He's a good defender, but obviously the SOB line would be our shutdown line. I wouldn't mind him at all.

 

[dxgoalie]

I like the offence grabo brings but my concern with him is how well will he fit under hitch.

 

[LongLiveTheNote]

I like the offence grabo brings but my concern with him is how well will he fit under hitch.

I don't disagree, but at what point do we start to go after the best player available instead of best fit? Hitch has had his time, and it has had quite a bit of success. It just hasn't paid dividends in the playoffs. Hitch may need to start adjusting to what players he gets instead of vice-versa.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't disagree, but at what point do we start to go after the best player available instead of best fit? Hitch has had his time, and it has had quite a bit of success. It just hasn't paid dividends in the playoffs. Hitch may need to start adjusting to what players he gets instead of vice-versa.

I would agree. However, Hitch has not shown an ability to adapt at all. And Grabovski has publically lambasted a coach who used him defensively in the past as well. Its like the quite irritable forward meets the immovable coach (get it, irresistible force, immovable object...ah never mind). Anyway, I think before we sign him, Army needs to talk to Hitch, if Army is GM and Hitch is coach, and make sure Hitch will allow him more offensive freedom. Otherwise, just get Bolland or Legwand. That's why Stasny is so great a fit. No compromise. Offensive talent and defensive skill.

 

[LongLiveTheNote]

I would agree. However, Hitch has not shown an ability to adapt at all. And Grabovski has publically lambasted a coach who used him defensively in the past as well. Its like the quite irritable forward meets the immovable coach (get it, irresistible force, immovable object...ah never mind). Anyway, I think before we sign him, Army needs to talk to Hitch, if Army is GM and Hitch is coach, and make sure Hitch will allow him more offensive freedom. Otherwise, just get Bolland or Legwand. That's why Stasny is so great a fit. No compromise. Offensive talent and defensive skill.

Nah, I'm following you. It was evident especially with the PP as the season went along. I just don't understand. Half of coaching is making adjustments

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I wouldn't be too worried about Grabovski and Hitch. If I remember correctly, Carlye literally had him on the third line playing a shutdown role and basically told him to play defense only. We'd be asking him to play a two way game, but I don't think we'd be bringing him in for a purely defensive role. If we bring Grabo in, he'd probably be with Schwartz and Tarasenko, and I'm thinking I'm probably safe in saying they are an offensive line.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I've always like Grabovski, but I think some don't have a clear picture of him. He is solid offensively and defensively, but he isn't going to be a shutdown guy to force Backes to an offensive or wing role, and that would be stupid anyway. Grabo also isn't going to dramatically change the offense like a Spezza or Stastny would.

Grabovski will give us around 50 points if he fits in. Possibly more if he gels with Schwartz and Tarasenko, but he'd only get more because Schwartz and Tarasenko, not because of his actual play.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Yeah he's definitely my backup plan to Stastny. I just think he'd be a better fit than some would give him credit for. Ideally, I want Stastny so we can slide the whole SOB line back to second line and let them be the shutdown line. Let Scwhartz, Tarasenko, and Stastny take over the heavy lifting offensively. Either way, we need to upgrade the third line. We've got to get some secondary scoring out of it. If we can upgrade the third line and miss out on Stastny, I wouldn't mind Grabovski. We can afford to have the SOB line stay as the first line if we get some more scoring depth behind them. But, I have to admit, I don't really see this team winning without another high quality scoring center.

 

[Alklha]

The worry about Grabovski is the impact he would have in the locker room. I have got no idea what he is like, I've never seen any specific stories, but there was rumblings that he wasn't very liked in the Leafs locker room. I think Kulemin was the only teammate he invited to his wedding.

On the ice, I think he would actually be a very good fit.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

My impression was that the blues didn't really consider Grabovski last year. I'm not clear on the reasoning, and I know his wedding was probably a factor.....but I came away with the impression he isn't viewed as a good option.

 

[BlueDream]

Which might be scary considering they viewed Roy as a good option.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I don't think Grabovski was an option last year because he didn't want to be an option for anybody. Him getting married threw a huge wrench into free agency for him. He wasn't really talking to anybody. Roy seemed liked a plan B option for me.