Post-Game Talk: #18| FLYERS 0 at Wild 3 | Tue. Nov. 14, 8:00 pm ET

[deadhead]

A change is going to come.
Patrick will replace Lehtera when he returns.
Lindblom will replace Weise.
Martel/MV will replace Leier/Raffl (face it, Leier is a smurf who never hits anyone, so if you replace him with Martel, you have a more skilled, less defensively oriented smurf).
Morin/McDonald will replace Manning

When? When Hextall deems it time.

 

[hatcher]

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Weal-Filppula-Simmonds
Raffl-Patrick-Konecny
Leier-Laughton-Read

All garbage but the top players

 

[Striiker]

All garbage but the top players

Don't start this exaggeration junk again...

 

[bennysflyers16]

I wish this team would get their **** together and either be:
A. A playoff team
B. Last place team and we can cheer sarcastically for them

You have "B" currently

 

[hatcher]

Don't start this exaggeration junk again...

What do they do?

 

[BernieParent]

Okay, that's odd. My edit to my previous post isn't being incorporated. The rest of my thought is "... for the sake of killing the < 40 point epithet, I would switch Simmonds and Voracek, at least for a period."

 

[Hurricane28]

Again, this year was a transition year. The help is coming. We didn't expect Sanheim, Patrick, and Hagg to step in and make this team a contender right away. It's important to remember this after losses. Let's get Patrick back first, which hope provides some stability so Lehtera doesn't have to play in the middle six, and see where we are. It's not like we're buried in the standings. 2 points out of the Wild Card.

 

[deadhead]

If the Flyers got 2 goals and won 2-1, wonder if we'd hear all this angst.
We've run into a red hot goalie, who was hot before we hosted the Wild.
We outshot them 30-20 legitimately, we had plenty of good scoring chances.
And a lot of the Wild's chances came when the Flyers started gambling.

Elliott is looking pretty good, not elite, but certainly better than anything we had out there last year.
Get the defense settled in (Hagg and Sanheim both look much better than a couple weeks ago), and make some fixes to the lines, and this is a potential playoff team.

Part of the problem is underperformance, if Weal - Filppula - Simmonds played as well as the end of last year, Hextall would feel more comfortable with Lindblom - Patrick - Konency as his third line, but he doesn't want to make them the second line and demand that they help carry the team. Given them a year to get comfortable and ratchet up the expectations next year.

And the 4th line has to do something offensively, screw Corsi, 1 goal just doesn't cut it.
Which is why if Martel comes up, Leier goes down or to the bench.

 

[Striiker]

What do they do?

Are you asking what they do in general or what they're currently doing during this slump?

Okay, that's odd. My edit to my previous post isn't being incorporated. The rest of my thought is "... for the sake of killing the > 40 point epithet, I would switch Simmonds and Voracek, at least for a period."

For some reason that "less than" symbol causes everything after it to be deleted sometimes.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Since I missed all of it, what did Hexy and Hak say in their interviews after the game (if they had any)?

 

[Striiker]

If the Flyers got 2 goals and won 2-1, wonder if we'd hear all this angst.
We've run into a red hot goalie, who was hot before we hosted the Wild.
We outshot them 30-20 legitimately, we had plenty of good scoring chances.
And a lot of the Wild's chances came when the Flyers started gambling.

Elliott is looking pretty good, not elite, but certainly better than anything we had out there last year.
Get the defense settled in (Hagg and Sanheim both look much better than a couple weeks ago), and make some fixes to the lines, and this is a potential playoff team.

Part of the problem is underperformance, if Weal - Filppula - Simmonds played as well as the end of last year, Hextall would feel more comfortable with Lindblom - Patrick - Konency as his third line, but he doesn't want to make them the second line and demand that they help carry the team. Given them a year to get comfortable and ratchet up the expectations next year.

And the 4th line has to do something offensively, screw Corsi, 1 goal just doesn't cut it.
Which is why if Martel comes up, Leier goes down or to the bench.

Although I agree that the panic out of control, the problem isn't just last game or the last two games. It's the same issues we've seen all year, but when the top line hardcore carries the team the problems are pushed to the background for a moment. They're still there, but not the focus.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Since I missed all of it, what did Hexy and Hak say in their interviews after the game (if they had any)?

Time to put in the work.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Time to put in the work.

What f***ing work? Clearly what the coach is doing isn't working. His system didn't work. His flailing about changing the lines didn't work. To fix something that doesn't work is to replace it with something that does. But you know, that's just me.

 

[hatcher]

Flyers look the worst of any team. Yotes even play a better game but lose do to age.

 

[orangecrush8]

Again, this year was a transition year. The help is coming. We didn't expect Sanheim, Patrick, and Hagg to step in and make this team a contender right away. It's important to remember this after losses. Let's get Patrick back first, which hope provides some stability so Lehtera doesn't have to play in the middle six, and see where we are. It's not like we're buried in the standings. 2 points out of the Wild Card.

The question is why are we continuing to waste our best players while we are in transition years?

Pick one or the other. One foot in and one foot out the door results in consistent mediocrity.

 

[Rebels57]

Stop being dramatic.

"All the impact young players are here"? Even if we ignore that you're wrong there, you say that as if they're all in their prime right now. Patrick and Konecny are currently the best they'll ever be? How about Sanheim? Even Provorov and Ghost can't improve? You really believe this?

If you can't see how this team will be significantly better in a few years (unless there's some kind of unforeseen disaster, like serious career-ending injury) then you're being blinded by emotion and angst.

I think you're downplaying the damage that Hakstol can do to these prospects. That's all most of these guys are at this point until they are proven succesful NHLers, and the Flyers wouldn't be the first organization to ruin promising prospects through incredible ineptitude (see Oilers; Edmonton).

The way I see it, the Flyers will only be a better team 2 years from now if Hakstol (along with Lappy and Murphy) is fired, replaced with a competent coaching staff, and Hextall abandons his philosophy of being okay with playing trash veterans.

 

[deadhead]

Teams that ruin prospects do so by letting them maintain the bad habits they developed in juniors and never master the fundamentals of the NHL game (backchecking, etc.).
That's not a problem with Hakstol, and I don't see prospects backtracking.

The problem comes down to talent on the 2nd to 4th lines, and Hakstol recognizes it, just look at the ES minutes.
He can reduce the PT of Lehtera, Weise, Leier and Raffl, but he can't replace them.

Meanwhile the defense is playing better, Elliott is playing better, as soon as they fix the offensive woes they'll get hot.
But breaking up the first line won't really make a difference, who are you going to put with Giroux at center?
A big fall off for the first line is unlikely to be cured by Lehtera - Couts - Simmonds, or however you mix and match.

 

[Hurricane28]

The question is why are we continuing to waste our best players while we are in transition years?

Pick one or the other. One foot in and one foot out the door results in consistent mediocrity.

Well replacing Weise and Lehtera with young guys won't make them contenders either. For now we are stuck in mediocrity until we have depth which comes from within. The plan all along was to have the defense carry the team with Giroux and Voracek supplementing the forward core when they're older

 

[Striiker]

I think you're downplaying the damage that Hakstol can do to these prospects. That's all most of these guys are at this point until they are proven succesful NHLers, and the Flyers wouldn't be the first organization to ruin promising prospects through incredible ineptitude (see Oilers; Edmonton).

The way I see it, the Flyers will only be a better team 2 years from now if Hakstol (along with Lappy and Murphy) is fired, replaced with a competent coaching staff, and Hextall abandons his philosophy of being okay with playing trash veterans.

I doubt they can really ruin any of these prospects. What Edmonton did was rush them... the certainly isn't a problem here with anyone but Hagg.

All they're doing is suppressing their impact, not ruining them. I'm not worried about that at all.

 

[deadhead]

The real problem is we can all see the future, but have to live in the present.
Even if we bring up Lindblom, MV, Martel, NAK and Morin tomorrow, as flyersphan20 points out, that's unlikely to make us a playoff contender this year if players like Simmonds don't step up. They'll have their rookie growing pains.

Which is probably why Hextall is in no rush to promote them, if he thought they'd be a huge initial upgrade they'd already be here.
But if they're going to struggle, do you want to rush them and put all that pressure on them (Flyer fans are so patient and forgiving) or be patient and bring them up when you think they're comfortable enough to handle the pressure?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Even if we don't make the playoffs with the rookies, the experience that they gain from playing up with the club means so, so much to every single one of them.

 

[Jtown]

Teams that ruin prospects do so by letting them maintain the bad habits they developed in juniors and never master the fundamentals of the NHL game (backchecking, etc.).
That's not a problem with Hakstol, and I don't see prospects backtracking.

The problem comes down to talent on the 2nd to 4th lines, and Hakstol recognizes it, just look at the ES minutes.
He can reduce the PT of Lehtera, Weise, Leier and Raffl, but he can't replace them.

Meanwhile the defense is playing better, Elliott is playing better, as soon as they fix the offensive woes they'll get hot.
But breaking up the first line won't really make a difference, who are you going to put with Giroux at center?
A big fall off for the first line is unlikely to be cured by Lehtera - Couts - Simmonds, or however you mix and match.

I would like to see couts and g split up ,and you could do a few interesting things.

Simmer Couts Voracek
Giroux Laughton Konency

I think these would be intersting, especially that 2nd line. That 2nd line would be fast as hell, and laughton is as close to coots as any center we have, defensively responsible, good along the boards.

 

[Hurricane28]

Oh I agree that the young guys should be up to get experience, and the best way to get experience is to play in the NHL, but it likely won't change anything in the short term. They're going to be mediocre.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Oh I agree that the young guys should be up to get experience, and the best way to get experience is to play in the NHL, but it likely won't change anything in the short term. They're going to be mediocre.

Even if we're mediocre, it gives fans a reason to watch because of all the up and coming young players.

 

[orangecrush8]

Well replacing Weise and Lehtera with young guys won't make them contenders either. For now we are stuck in mediocrity until we have depth which comes from within. The plan all along was to have the defense carry the team with Giroux and Voracek supplementing the forward core when they're older

I agree replacing Weise and Lehtera with young guys with no experience won’t help enough. The fact that this team has only those options speaks to the incompetence of the upper management.

It’s why you don’t trade Schenn. It’s why you’re not afraid to use younger players before they are 4 and 5 years removed from their draft year. It’s why you use your abundance of d assets to help the forward group.

We’re past the point of no return.