Injury Report: 16-17 "Robidas Island": All Inhabitants have left the Island

[Dwolf63]

Again - nothing to see here. You can be recovering from an injury and feel fine doing some things. You start a new drill or try a new drill and you re-tweak the problem. You go into denial hoping that it gets better. What? He's going to mope to Kadri? No it's all good because you keep hoping you'll feel better by September, and be ready to go.

Then September arrives and things still aren't 100%. Chances are if they've shut him down there's a genuine chance of making it worse by attending camp and getting into contact situations. So you could participate if you really want but with the risk that an errant hit might do real damage again, or a bad fall could tear something up.

You have a history of being brittle and not healing quickly. Are you going to risk it? Is the team going to risk it? Do they want you playing when you're already not 100% and are only likely to make it worse by rushing?

What's likely complicating things further is the likely belief that whatever is going on is something that may never heal right because of all the past complications Lupul has had.

So they've left the door open for him if things do get better. There's just likely too much risk that full practices or exhibition games are going to mess things up for him.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I prefer the open roster spot to Lupe's giving her another go.

Even when healthy he has been underwhelming at times. He will be fine he is wildly overpaid.

In fact I'm happy with how aggressive the Leafs are these days. They probably could have just let him play the season, like a Clarkson, but are trying to get better regardless of contracts

 

[Mess]

Looks like Lou Lam has found a CBA Lupulhole to exploit to continue the scorched earth plan of the past to remove Joffrey from the roster as Leafs continue to turn the page.

I don't think we will see Lupul in Blue and White again.

 

[Big Easy]

Robidas took a consulting role. Lupul should try broadcasting.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Again - nothing to see here. You can be recovering from an injury and feel fine doing some things. You start a new drill or try a new drill and you re-tweak the problem. You go into denial hoping that it gets better. What? He's going to mope to Kadri? No it's all good because you keep hoping you'll feel better by September, and be ready to go.

Then September arrives and things still aren't 100%. Chances are if they've shut him down there's a genuine chance of making it worse by attending camp and getting into contact situations. So you could participate if you really want but with the risk that an errant hit might do real damage again, or a bad fall could tear something up.

You have a history of being brittle and not healing quickly. Are you going to risk it? Is the team going to risk it? Do they want you playing when you're already not 100% and are only likely to make it worse by rushing?

What's likely complicating things further is the likely belief that whatever is going on is something that may never heal right because of all the past complications Lupul has had.

So they've left the door open for him if things do get better. There's just likely too much risk that full practices or exhibition games are going to mess things up for him.

I don't think they want him on the team. Period. They don't want him playing regardless. They are not leaving the door open for anything. He will not play for the Leafs again.

 

[FreeBird]

Kadri says Lupul is fine and ready to Go

According to Mirtle on the Globe and Mail, Kadri pretty much disputing what Lou said, says Lupul is in great shape and ready to go. Think Lou and Naz might have a conversation.

 

[Menzinger]

Lou always gets his man..... To agree that he can't play hockey anymore

 

[Big Easy]

According to Mirtle on the Globe and Mail, Kadri pretty much disputing what Lou said, says Lupul is in great shape and ready to go. Think Lou and Naz might have a conversation.

Dun Dun Duuuun. Naz should learn, don't ever cross Lou like that.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Dun Dun Duuuun. Naz should learn, don't ever cross Lou like that.

Don't think he crossed Lou. Think he was completely unaware, though.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Nazem, please sit down.........we need to talk

 

[Slot]

Nazem, please sit down.........we need to talk

Someone's going to get a Lou Rae Jepsen.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Nazem, please sit down.........we need to talk

I can't believe Naz's presser response doesn't have a thread of it's own. What a Mook Jabroni.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I don't know why people are making this so shady. I was listening to Friedman on Bluendel? someone and this guy is all like "is this legit? i mean if you put money on this etc etc. come on people can't really believe.."

like - i'm sorry. what's there to question - and before people keep saying but the usual time...

1: everyone is an individual. just because recovery time is X doesn't mean it's always going to be X.
2: Joffrey Lupul is a broken person. anyone with sense would know the more surgeries and injuries you have + your age means you don't heal that fast.
3: the Jared Cowen situation doesn't apply which brings me to this

Lou didn't do anything wrong WITH the Jared Cowen situation either. he was going to buy him out. he told Jared to go look for another contract. why people are trying to make this shady is beyond me.

 

[Gallagbi]

I don't know why people are making this so shady. I was listening to Friedman on Bluendel? someone and this guy is all like "is this legit? i mean if you put money on this etc etc. come on people can't really believe.."

like - i'm sorry. what's there to question - and before people keep saying but the usual time...

1: everyone is an individual. just because recovery time is X doesn't mean it's always going to be X.
2: Joffrey Lupul is a broken person. anyone with sense would know the more surgeries and injuries you have + your age means you don't heal that fast.
3: the Jared Cowen situation doesn't apply which brings me to this

Lou didn't do anything wrong WITH the Jared Cowen situation either. he was going to buy him out. he told Jared to go look for another contract. why people are trying to make this shady is beyond me.

Plenty of reasons to think this is shady. Lou has a questionable past with these type of things (Mogilny, Robidas both come to mind), there's the usual timelines to heal from this type of injury, lack of discussion regarding Lupul throughout the summer and no timeline for a return on this. You could also add the Kadri comments as well.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Plenty of reasons to think this is shady. Lou has a questionable past with these type of things (Mogilny, Robidas both come to mind), there's the usual timelines to heal from this type of injury, lack of discussion regarding Lupul throughout the summer and no timeline for a return on this. You could also add the Kadri comments as well.

again. what is questionable about it.
Mogliny had documented issues. as did Robidas. Like i pointed out just because there are the usual timelines for things doesn't mean everyone heals at that time. sometimes people heal faster. sometimes people heal slower.

Lamoriello said he and Lupul talked often and he was in Toronto getting treatment from the Leafs doctors. so just because everything isn't being filtered through the media, doesn't mean things are shady.

and if Lupul, truly had a leg to stand on - he could have gotten a second opinion (as his right) and he could be okay for camp. (which chances are he wouldn't make the team anyway) he's not on LTIR, he's on IR. so his money is on the cap regardless. so whatever "perk" people think this is there really isnt any (just like Robidas last year).

 

[Gallagbi]

again. what is questionable about it.
Mogliny had documented issues. as did Robidas. Like i pointed out just because there are the usual timelines for things doesn't mean everyone heals at that time. sometimes people heal faster. sometimes people heal slower.

Documented issues that usually don't take year(s) to recover from.

You've mentioned the varied healing times twice now, but what a coincidence Lou has had 3 of them and I can't seem to recall any other teams having this type of career ending setbacks from players expected to return. Guys who just seemed to vanish over the summer and showed up to camp unfit to play.

Lamoriello said he and Lupul talked often and he was in Toronto getting treatment from the Leafs doctors. so just because everything isn't being filtered through the media, doesn't mean things are shady.

That's nice they talked. Makes it shady no updates/timelines were discussed though since it was asked a number of times.

and if Lupul, truly had a leg to stand on - he could have gotten a second opinion (as his right) and he could be okay for camp. (which chances are he wouldn't make the team anyway) he's not on LTIR, he's on IR. so his money is on the cap regardless. so whatever "perk" people think this is there really isnt any (just like Robidas last year).

It's in Lupul's best interest to shut up and take the money.


If you want to ignore these thibgs that's fine, but these are unusual circumstances that have people questioning how valid the injury is.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Robidas was never LTIR'd, not sure what history that is.

"Hey Robidas, you suck, go home, you stay on our cap"

Such a horrible, loophole loving history that is.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Documented issues that usually don't take year(s) to recover from.

You've mentioned the varied healing times twice now, but what a coincidence Lou has had 3 of them and I can't seem to recall any other teams having this type of career ending setbacks from players expected to return. Guys who just seemed to vanish over the summer and showed up to camp unfit to play.


That's nice they talked. Makes it shady no updates/timelines were discussed though since it was asked a number of times.



It's in Lupul's best interest to shut up and take the money.


If you want to ignore these things that's fine, but these are unusual circumstances that have people questioning how valid the injury is.

Lupul is getting the money anyway.so. no. not really. If he truly felt he could play he would have sought out a second opinion. His option is "not playing and getting paid." and being on IR, or trying out and not playing and being a healthy (or unhealthy scratch). Where is the "best interest?" it's sort of that whole think like people honestly think Lou does these things, and the league doesn't look into it - or the NHLPA.

Oh no? Documented healing times are set in stone?
Kane breaks bone, is supposed to be out for a long period of time, comes back sooner than expected.

Carey Price has a knee injury that was only supposed to be two week recovery period and he missed the entire season.

Erik Karlsson partially severs Achilles heel and suffers from lingering pain for a year afterwards even though he came back roughly when he was supposed to. David Bolland suffers same injury but comes back relatively quickly, but still has same lingering issues. I'm sorry. "documented" or not - people heal at different times.

from what we know. Lupul had his hernia surgery rehabbed, went to train and still felt some pain. came to Toronto worked with Leafs staff and still isn't healing the way everyone likes it too, so he'll continue to do so. What time line do you need? the Carey Price version when it was always "oh in a couple of weeks, he's good to go, oops still can't go?"

It's not ignoring anything if there was something legitimately shady, then fine. but there is a whole lot of other facts people are ignoring, the big one that the league does check these things out.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I would totally be okay with the "injuries take time... different rehab times for different players..." approach but Lou said way, way back during the last season that he didn't think Lupul would be back from the injury.

Pre-surgery how would he have the slightest clue?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't care, happy Lupul isn't on the roster even though I like him as a player but the contract and pressure from the kids makes it necessary.

But if anyone wants to remain ignorant at this point the lengths to which Lamoriello can go to get the things he wants done, well, there's nothing else that can be done to bring the light of truth to your eyes.

 

[Canada4Gold]

What was the exact quote? Did he say "back from the injury" or "back on this team"? He could have just been planning on not having him back, whether by trade, buyout, or just plain sending him to the AHL forever, and this injury remaining means he can't do any of those things so IR it is.

I've said a few times already that I think we'd be better of with a healthy Lupul and sending him to the minors so I'm not sure if they're trying to loophole Lupul what the purpose is. We don't need the LTIR capspace, Horton or potential Robidas(which would be about as Valid as LTIR Lupul) would be first, and Lupul + the replacement's cap will potentially move ELC bonuses to next year when we're forced to LTIR Horton. It's not an advantage.

 

[sxvnert]

Whether Lupul is on LTIR or IR is irrelevant. The message being sent to all players is their contract status will not decide who makes the team and who doesn't. A far cry from any previous management group running the leafs.

 

[hotpaws]

If Lupul/Robidas were actually injured and unfit to play why wouldn't they put him them on ltir and get cap relief ?

 

[Canada4Gold]

If Lupul/Robidas were actually injured and unfit to play why wouldn't they put him them on ltir and get cap relief ?

For what purpose? To have 8 million in cap room they're not using? If they can put them on LTIR and need it they'll use it, but there's Horton first anyway, the odds of needing 13+ million in cap room is basically zero. You don't put them on LTIR until you need it, because when doing it you need to be as close to your cap as possible. If you put Lupul on LTIR when you have 3 million in cap room you don't get an extra 5.25 million, you only get 2.25 million, you get to use what you're at at that very moment + the cap of said player. Not the cap ceiling + the cap of that player.

So if we were at the 73 million cap and LTIR'd Horton we could go to 78.3, then if we immediately try to LTIR Lupul they say ok you're at 73 on your cap right now you can have an extra 5.25 on top of that so you can go to 78.25, but we can already go to 78.3 from Horton, you don't get any extra, same for Robidas. If you need to LTIR 1 you do, then use that space, if you get to the point you need more then LTIR another, and so on.

And if you can avoid using it you should. Especially when you're gonna have 4 rookies very likely to be hitting ELC bonuses, 1 upwards of 2.85 million. ELC bonuses are calculated into the cap at the end of the year, any space you have goes towards those bonuses, if you don't have enough room the rest gets move to next year(we have 512.5k from Rielly carrying over into this season from last). If you're over the cap using LTIR then there's no room(you don't get to use the extra LTIR room when dealing with bonuses) so all of it goes to next year

 

[Daisy Jane]

I would totally be okay with the "injuries take time... different rehab times for different players..." approach but Lou said way, way back during the last season that he didn't think Lupul would be back from the injury.

Pre-surgery how would he have the slightest clue?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't care, happy Lupul isn't on the roster even though I like him as a player but the contract and pressure from the kids makes it necessary.

But if anyone wants to remain ignorant at this point the lengths to which Lamoriello can go to get the things he wants done, well, there's nothing else that can be done to bring the light of truth to your eyes.

that quote was during Locker clean out which was - about 2-3 weeks after the he should have been back. so if you take that to what he said on Thursday - he rehabbed, skated and it didn't feel good...

hence, the quote. it wasn't pre-surgery. it was after. then they continued with rehab it wasn't feeling right and then he worked with the sports medicine team. as Canada4Gold keeps pointing out we're not benefitting from this.

like holy crap, it's not remaining ignorant. that's how it laid out.
February-March: Lupul has surgery + rehab,

April 10th: Lamoriello says the status of Robidas + Lupul are "unknown and they [Leafs] don't know if he [Lupul] will come back from surgery." I did a google. there's nothing Lamoriello said before Feb and April 10th saying anything regarding Lupul.

Sept. 22nd: Lamoriello says that after the surgery and rehab, Lupul said he was feeling issues with the same area. they remained in constant communication, Lupul came to Toronto to work with their doctors, and it wasn't clearing up. He then failed the medical because he wasn't ready to actually play. I don't know - maybe Lupul felt like he could fake it and skate through the issues - it wouldn't have been the first or third or seventh time he's done that as a Leaf - skate through his issues and hope they go away, and unlike the previous regime, this one is like screw that, you're injured.

David Clarkson failed a medical is anyone saying how chinzy and shady it is? no, and we know how crap his contract is. Why isn't anyone saying boo to a bird about that? ultimately, like i've pointed out - it is one thing if Lupul is going to be put on the LTIR - which he may not., No matter how you slice it - the Leafs are going to have to pay him. If there legitimately something NOT kosher, Lupul has his NHLPA rights. (and i'm pretty sure the PA would do something regardless of Lupul wanted him to do something if it was REALLY shady, as well as the League - something that I think people are ignoring to make this all "shady as heck" story stick.

 

[hotpaws]

For what purpose? To have 8 million in cap room they're not using? If they can put them on LTIR and need it they'll use it, but there's Horton first anyway, the odds of needing 13+ million in cap room is basically zero. You don't put them on LTIR until you need it, because when doing it you need to be as close to your cap as possible. If you put Lupul on LTIR when you have 3 million in cap room you don't get an extra 5.25 million, you only get 2.25 million, you get to use what you're at at that very moment + the cap of said player. Not the cap ceiling + the cap of that player.

So if we were at the 73 million cap and LTIR'd Horton we could go to 78.3, then if we immediately try to LTIR Lupul they say ok you're at 73 on your cap right now you can have an extra 5.25 on top of that so you can go to 78.25, but we can already go to 78.3 from Horton, you don't get any extra, same for Robidas. If you need to LTIR 1 you do, then use that space, if you get to the point you need more then LTIR another, and so on.

And if you can avoid using it you should. Especially when you're gonna have 4 rookies very likely to be hitting ELC bonuses, 1 upwards of 2.85 million. ELC bonuses are calculated into the cap at the end of the year, any space you have goes towards those bonuses, if you don't have enough room the rest gets move to next year(we have 512.5k from Rielly carrying over into this season from last). If you're over the cap using LTIR then there's no room(you don't get to use the extra LTIR room when dealing with bonuses) so all of it goes to next year

The only reason not to put them on LTIR is if they're not really injured which is probably the case with both them . There's no other reason not to put them there regardless of how you try to spin it .