Speculation: 10 Trade Suggestions from The Score

[Brobust]

Don't make stuff up. No sane Canucks fan as asked for Nylander or Marner in over a year and a half because we have taken into account Tanev's injury history and how much Nylander+Marner have improved. Liljegren+1st has been asked for though and is wishful thinking but I doubt Toronto even considers it.

I haven't clicked on a Tanev thread in a while. Why should I assume that you people suddenly got reasonable in your ask?

 

[Scintillating10]

Some interesting ideas here... Here's the 10 deals, but the actual post has the rationale listed for each deal as well.

Matchmaker: Projecting new homes for this summer's top 10 trade candidates

To Vegas - Erik Karlsson (extended), Bobby Ryan
To Ottawa - 2019 1st, Alex Tuch, Cody Glass, Nicolas Hague

To St. Louis - Ryan O'Reilly
To Buffalo - 2018 1st (Winnipeg's), Robert Thomas, Vince Dunn

To Minnesota - Phil Kessel
To Pittsburgh - Jason Zucker, Kirill Kaprizov

To Florida - Max Pacioretty (extended)
To Montreal - 2018 1st, Nick Bjugstad

To Los Angeles - Jeff Skinner (extended)
To Carolina - 2018 1st, Alex Iafallo

To Calgary - Mike Hoffman
To Ottawa - 2020 2nd, Sam Bennett, Rasmus Andersson

To Chicago - Justin Faulk, Scott Darling
To Carolina - 2018 1st (Nashville's), Marian Hossa, Chad Krys

To Toronto - Chris Tanev
To Vancouver - 2018 1st, Josh Leivo, Connor Carrick

To Arizona - Tyler Johnson
To Tampa Bay - 2019 2nd, Pierre-Olivier Joseph

To NY Islanders - Philipp Grubauer (RFA)
To Washington - 2018 1st (Calgary's)

That would suggest Ottawa is rebuilding without its top pick next year. Can't see it

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Agreed. Why would the Blues trade a prospect whose absolute ceiling is RoR for RoR

Zadorov>Thomas

RoR is a legit top 20 center. He's easily the best center in St.Louis if he was acquired. But that's ok, I remember how guys like Smaltz , Rattie, Jaskin Among others were other "untouchable" elite prospects.

If St.Louis was offered RoR, a legit top 20 center in the league. A real 1C with elite two way play signed for 5 more years who will put up 60-65 points year in and year out is easily worth 2 prospects and a 1st. Impending UFA RoR returned Zadorov, Compher, Grigorenko and #31 for RoR and McGinn.

An extended RoR is easily worth the Blues trade package. People think 27 year old franchise centers are easily acquired and/or grow on trees.

Ok troll, calm down. Ryan O'Reilly is worth a lot, but the Blues fans here are primarily arguing against trading a young, puck moving, top 4 defensemen coming off a great rookie year, a young, cost controlled center in an organization that severely lacks center depth, and a 1st for Ryan O'Reilly.

1. I never saw one Blues fan argue that Schmaltz, Rattie, or Jaskin were untouchable prospects. If they did, they were sniffing glue. Thomas was the OHL playoff MVP and most scouts around the league have him in the top 10 of prospects.

2. Dunn is a legit top 4 defesneman and if he continues how he played his rookie year, he'll be top pairing in a hurry. Kid has some size, but he's mainly got great hockey-sense and great puck moving ability. Maybe he compares to Zadorov, but him and the pick are the only two things close to comparable in that trade package.

3. Ryan O'Reilly put up good stats on a very bad team. Eichel is being sheltered from the harder assignments because of O'Reilly. Being put in the position doesn't force you into top player discussion. O'Reilly is very good and worth a great deal, but not the 7.5 million cap hit. Below is a quick comparison of O'Reilly and Schenn from last season, and please remember, Schenn is a hit of 2.875 million a year less.

Player Comparison Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

They look like basically the same player, outside +/-, which I would throw out because again, O'Reilly is on a bad team. O'Reilly is the better defensive center, but Schenn isn't that far behind. He is much better on face offs, so I'll give you that over Schenn, but again, it doesn't make him "easily" the best center on the Blues.

The trade package isn't one the Blues would give up. I guarantee Doug Armstrong wouldn't trade Thomas. Now, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, or a few lesser ones, he'd probably throw in there, but again, it's because Thomas is in a bigger position of need for the organization, not because O'Reilly isn't necessarily worth it.

I think people often forget to look at the needs of an organization, not just the NHL team. Does Ryan O'Reilly fill a hole for the Blues, yes, but the two players given up to get him caused two more holes. That's not good management.

 

[Dbrownss]

Agreed. Why would the Blues trade a prospect whose absolute ceiling is RoR for RoR

Zadorov>Thomas

RoR is a legit top 20 center. He's easily the best center in St.Louis if he was acquired. But that's ok, I remember how guys like Smaltz , Rattie, Jaskin Among others were other "untouchable" elite prospects.

If St.Louis was offered RoR, a legit top 20 center in the league. A real 1C with elite two way play signed for 5 more years who will put up 60-65 points year in and year out is easily worth 2 prospects and a 1st. Impending UFA RoR returned Zadorov, Compher, Grigorenko and #31 for RoR and McGinn.

An extended RoR is easily worth the Blues trade package. People think 27 year old franchise centers are easily acquired and/or grow on trees.

 

[TK 421]

Yeah having watched how Doug Armstrong operates for several years now there isn't a snow balls chance he would give up that kind of package for ROR.

The Blues are far better off waiting to see if JT hits UFA which they should have a pretty good indication of by the time the draft rolls around. The cost to acquire quality centers via trade is typically both expensive and hard to find in the 1st place. Armstrong will no doubt be in on any talks for centers but in my experience he tends to wait for a situation he can take advantage of and never gives in to another teams initial ask.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Habs are not adding our low 3rd round pick (66). That is a very fair deal for the Panthers. If you want a pre-negotiated hand shake contract extension, The Panthers are the ones adding a 3rd. It would be very similar to the Lucic return from the Bruins to Kings and Patch>Lucic.

Ok then a 4th

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ok then a 4th

We will see... Call it plan B from the Habs and depends on who is on the board with the 15th pick

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Agreed. Why would the Blues trade a prospect whose absolute ceiling is RoR for RoR

Zadorov>Thomas

RoR is a legit top 20 center. He's easily the best center in St.Louis if he was acquired. But that's ok, I remember how guys like Smaltz , Rattie, Jaskin Among others were other "untouchable" elite prospects.

If St.Louis was offered RoR, a legit top 20 center in the league. A real 1C with elite two way play signed for 5 more years who will put up 60-65 points year in and year out is easily worth 2 prospects and a 1st. Impending UFA RoR returned Zadorov, Compher, Grigorenko and #31 for RoR and McGinn.

An extended RoR is easily worth the Blues trade package. People think 27 year old franchise centers are easily acquired and/or grow on trees.

The deal was not for RoR for Thomas but ALSO a 2nd year #2 defenseman and a 1st AND I really like RoR he is a legit #1 center but he is nowhere close to a franchise center. Its kind of telling when EVERY blues fan hates the trade and EVERY Sabers fans wants to do it.....

P.S. Just so we are clear, this in no means takes anything away from RoR, hes really good

 

[tsujimoto74]

The deal was not for RoR for Thomas but ALSO a 2nd year #2 defenseman and a 1st AND I really like RoR he is a legit #1 center but he is nowhere close to a franchise center. Its kind of telling when EVERY blues fan hates the trade and EVERY Sabers fans wants to do it.....

P.S. Just so we are clear, this in no means takes anything away from RoR, hes really good

Yes, you pay Buffalo for the massive assumption of risk there. That is how futures for current players trades work. When Schenn was traded for Richards, many considered him the #1 prospect outside of the NHL...and just look at all the amazing ( ) things he did for Philly while Richards was off winning cups with LA.

 

[Beerz]

The deal was not for RoR for Thomas but ALSO a 2nd year #2 defenseman and a 1st AND I really like RoR he is a legit #1 center but he is nowhere close to a franchise center. Its kind of telling when EVERY blues fan hates the trade and EVERY Sabers fans wants to do it.....

P.S. Just so we are clear, this in no means takes anything away from RoR, hes really good

Really? You think Dunn is a top pairing Dman already?

I happen to think the deal is a little rich from Blues end and completely get why they wouldnt want to do it... however...we are talking about prospects when it comes to Thomas and the 1st .. but lets be real here.. ROR is a locked in top end player. Franchise center? Absolutely not but he is a legit top line center.

I am in the "do not trade ROR" group and this is the type of deal where I wouldn't throw my computer monitor into the wall if it went down yet I still would be hesitant because I'm not sure this makes us a better team... Buffalo would be taking the greater risk in this sort of trade.

 

[Maukkis]

OK... some decent trades, the idea seems to be there with all of them, the values might be off by a little... well, a bit more in some cases, but other than that, quite decent.

Oh, and they're also suggesting a ROR trade.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Agreed. Why would the Blues trade a prospect whose absolute ceiling is RoR for RoR

Zadorov>Thomas

RoR is a legit top 20 center. He's easily the best center in St.Louis if he was acquired. But that's ok, I remember how guys like Smaltz , Rattie, Jaskin Among others were other "untouchable" elite prospects.

If St.Louis was offered RoR, a legit top 20 center in the league. A real 1C with elite two way play signed for 5 more years who will put up 60-65 points year in and year out is easily worth 2 prospects and a 1st. Impending UFA RoR returned Zadorov, Compher, Grigorenko and #31 for RoR and McGinn.

An extended RoR is easily worth the Blues trade package. People think 27 year old franchise centers are easily acquired and/or grow on trees.

Dunn isn't a prospect anymore. He's a proven NHL player who has already demonstrated his ability and upside in the league.

Thomas is miles ahead of the Rattie/Jaskin in terms of quality as a prospect. It's silly to equate them in any way. This isn't just the perspective of Blues fans. It's the perspective of pretty much everyone.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Buffalo to want a king's ransom for ROR, but I'd wager there isn't a team in the league that would give up the sort of package that was mentioned here.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

I haven't clicked on a Tanev thread in a while. Why should I assume that you people suddenly got reasonable in your ask?

Then don’t comment if you don’t know about the material you’re talking about?

 

[Flames67]

It's more than a slight overpayment. Would you give all that up for Jiri Hudler? Because that's what Hoffman is.

Tough to say. Even if it is overpayment, having a guy like Hudler back that can handle those first line responsibilities from now on is paramount. It's what there off season seems to be revolving around. CAL has brought in Frolik and Brouwer as potential fits for the 1st line RW, they didn't work. Ferland has kind of worked but couldn't keep it going for all 82 games. So do you keep looking for bargain players that might fit the bill, or pony up a bit more and actually get the guy for the job?

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Really? You think Dunn is a top pairing Dman already?

I happen to think the deal is a little rich from Blues end and completely get why they wouldnt want to do it... however...we are talking about prospects when it comes to Thomas and the 1st .. but lets be real here.. ROR is a locked in top end player. Franchise center? Absolutely not but he is a legit top line center.

I am in the "do not trade ROR" group and this is the type of deal where I wouldn't throw my computer monitor into the wall if it went down yet I still would be hesitant because I'm not sure this makes us a better team... Buffalo would be taking the greater risk in this sort of trade.

nowhere did I say Dunn was a top pairing guy, he played a lot on the 2nd unit as a rookie and played really well. He is already a second pairing guy with room to grow, any minutes he is not here that means more ice time for the rapidly declining Jaybo, we cannot afford that

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Yes, you pay Buffalo for the massive assumption of risk there. That is how futures for current players trades work. When Schenn was traded for Richards, many considered him the #1 prospect outside of the NHL...and just look at all the amazing ( ) things he did for Philly while Richards was off winning cups with LA.

That was a different situation with two teams with different needs.
1. O'Reilly doesn't need to be moved, however, if it's true he's unhappy, and other Front Offices know that, Buffalo won't get the return they want.

2. Schenn has proven to be a very good player. He upped his game last season with the Blues, transitioning to center and scoring 70 points. Just because Lombardi traded his best prospect for Richards doesn't mean Armstrong should. That trade was also several years ago. If you're going to go off precedent, find a more recent one.

3. Buffalo is building for the future with Eichel, Dahlin, Middlestadt, Ristolainen, etc. O'Reilly doesn't really fit that bill if he's going to be 28 and basically coming out of his prime when Buffalo is ready to compete. While this package certainly helps Buffalo get there quicker, the assumption of risk isn't that massive for them because they aren't ready to compete. If Buffalo was on the cusp of the playoffs or something of that nature, then yes, the assumption of risk would have to be met in the trade. But that point is still a few years down the road.

4. This isn't an indictment of O'Reilly either. O'Reilly is a stellar player, 1C on almost any team. However, he's not an elite #1 C and trading a top 4 D, a 1st, and a top C prospect for him is an over-payment by today's standards. As a Blues fan, I'd be find with trading Dunn and the first and a prospect a tier below Thomas for O'Reilly, but I wouldn't trade Thomas or Kyrou. A tier lower than Thomas prospect like Thompson or Kostin with another roster player that Buffalo could flip would be more in my wheel house.

Really? You think Dunn is a top pairing Dman already?

I happen to think the deal is a little rich from Blues end and completely get why they wouldnt want to do it... however...we are talking about prospects when it comes to Thomas and the 1st .. but lets be real here.. ROR is a locked in top end player. Franchise center? Absolutely not but he is a legit top line center.

I am in the "do not trade ROR" group and this is the type of deal where I wouldn't throw my computer monitor into the wall if it went down yet I still would be hesitant because I'm not sure this makes us a better team... Buffalo would be taking the greater risk in this sort of trade.

Dunn is a top 4 defenseman already. I'd be willing to bet by season's end this year, he could be on a lot of teams top pairing. The kid has awesome hockey sense. He thinks quickly and knows how to distribute the puck.

I see the greater risk argument but it's one Buffalo has to take at some point to get better, and to be frank, the greater risk should be on Buffalo's end because of the fact that they are rebuilding and the Blues are in compete now mode. The problem with this particular suggested trade is Thomas is a franchise type need for the Blues, who as an organization are short on centers. I think if the writer would have suggested another prospect, maybe a tier below Thomas, Blues fans would think it's more of fair value. Thompson, Kostin, Barbashev, and maybe a roster player for Buffalo to flip (Sobotka) could work better.

Much like how you would throw your monitor through a wall if Buffalo traded O'Reilly for a lesser package, I think Blues fans would throw theirs through if DA traded Thomas and Dunn in the same trade for 1 player, unless it's in the truly elite category of player, because it causes too many other holes to open up.

 

[Beerz]

nowhere did I say Dunn was a top pairing guy, he played a lot on the 2nd unit as a rookie and played really well. He is already a second pairing guy with room to grow, any minutes he is not here that means more ice time for the rapidly declining Jaybo, we cannot afford that

I took it from this... "but ALSO a 2nd year #2 defenseman " I take #2 D man as top pair...

Again I get why Blues wouldnt be for the deal... but If Im GM that is the upside Im looking for if i even consider the notion to deal ROR

 

[krt88nc]

I guarantee you that the Blues wouldn't deal Thomas straight up for O'Reilly, much less add a young top four defender they are high on, AND a first.

If the Blues deal for RoR, salary is going back. You're looking at one of Berglund or Sobotka; plus one of Walman, Kostin or ThomPson; and a first.

If that's not enough to seal the deal, so be it.

I love these kind of posts!

I guarantee ... exactly how? You are speculating in your opinion the Blues wouldn’t do this but unless you are secretly the GM of the Nlues you can’t guarantee anything.

Now I also don’t feel this move would be good for the Blues but I’ve seen some bad trades over the years. This seems highly unlikely and a complete over payment. But this entire page is pure speculation.

 

[tsujimoto74]

That was a different situation with two teams with different needs.
1. O'Reilly doesn't need to be moved, however, if it's true he's unhappy, and other Front Offices know that, Buffalo won't get the return they want.

2. Schenn has proven to be a very good player. He upped his game last season with the Blues, transitioning to center and scoring 70 points. Just because Lombardi traded his best prospect for Richards doesn't mean Armstrong should. That trade was also several years ago. If you're going to go off precedent, find a more recent one.

3. Buffalo is building for the future with Eichel, Dahlin, Middlestadt, Ristolainen, etc. O'Reilly doesn't really fit that bill if he's going to be 28 and basically coming out of his prime when Buffalo is ready to compete. While this package certainly helps Buffalo get there quicker, the assumption of risk isn't that massive for them because they aren't ready to compete. If Buffalo was on the cusp of the playoffs or something of that nature, then yes, the assumption of risk would have to be met in the trade. But that point is still a few years down the road.

4. This isn't an indictment of O'Reilly either. O'Reilly is a stellar player, 1C on almost any team. However, he's not an elite #1 C and trading a top 4 D, a 1st, and a top C prospect for him is an over-payment by today's standards. As a Blues fan, I'd be find with trading Dunn and the first and a prospect a tier below Thomas for O'Reilly, but I wouldn't trade Thomas or Kyrou. A tier lower than Thomas prospect like Thompson or Kostin with another roster player that Buffalo could flip would be more in my wheel house.



Dunn is a top 4 defenseman already. I'd be willing to bet by season's end this year, he could be on a lot of teams top pairing. The kid has awesome hockey sense. He thinks quickly and knows how to distribute the puck.

I see the greater risk argument but it's one Buffalo has to take at some point to get better, and to be frank, the greater risk should be on Buffalo's end because of the fact that they are rebuilding and the Blues are in compete now mode. The problem with this particular suggested trade is Thomas is a franchise type need for the Blues, who as an organization are short on centers. I think if the writer would have suggested another prospect, maybe a tier below Thomas, Blues fans would think it's more of fair value. Thompson, Kostin, Barbashev, and maybe a roster player for Buffalo to flip (Sobotka) could work better.

Much like how you would throw your monitor through a wall if Buffalo traded O'Reilly for a lesser package, I think Blues fans would throw theirs through if DA traded Thomas and Dunn in the same trade for 1 player, unless it's in the truly elite category of player, because it causes too many other holes to open up.

Is Bergeron an elite 1C? How about Toews? Because, IMHO, the biggest thing that separates O'Reilly from those guys is that he's been stuck on bad teams most of his career.

Buffalo has all the balls in its court with O'Reilly.
- There are a bunch of teams looking for centers.
- There are 2 good centers who might move this summer.
- As soon as Tavares signs somewhere, and especially if he re-signs in NYI, all of those teams looking for help down the middle are going to be competing against each other for O'Reilly.
- O'Reilly does not have any restrictive trade clauses in his contract.
- He's in his prime (27) and locked up for another 5 years. Moreover, as a guy who neither relies on footspeed nor physicality, his game should age well. There's no reason to believe him leaving his athletic prime in his 30s will hurt his effectiveness in any meaningful way. See, e.g., Pavelski.
- Buffalo has absolutely no pressing need, or even want, to move him. Since we won the lottery and no longer have to wonder where the hell we're getting a top tier young defenseman from, Buffalo's real concern is just finding quality support players to augment our core (Eichel, Dahlin, Risto, ROR, Mittelstadt, and Reinhart). There are at least to roads to accomplishing that: (1) not making any kind of big splash move at all, and instead looking to pry out some solid players from cap crunched teams (e.g., Winnipeg, Tampa) and add quality depth via FA; or (2) getting one of those teams desperate for a C to pay through the nose for ROR and replace our 1 great player with several good ones. If ROR is going, it has to be because the trade makes Buffalo a better team. The risk with prospects isn't just that they only make us better later --- and, make no mistake, the Sabres are absolutely trying to get better NOW --- it's that they may never make us better at all. Main pieces coming back would have to be young NHL players or A-level prospects who are pretty safe bets.

TL;DR: If I'm Botterill this summer, you either give me exactly what I want, or I keep my player. If no one wants to pay that price, fine. Like I said, I keep my player, and I'm happy with that.

 

[Lunatik]

Tough to say. Even if it is overpayment, having a guy like Hudler back that can handle those first line responsibilities from now on is paramount. It's what there off season seems to be revolving around. CAL has brought in Frolik and Brouwer as potential fits for the 1st line RW, they didn't work. Ferland has kind of worked but couldn't keep it going for all 82 games. So do you keep looking for bargain players that might fit the bill, or pony up a bit more and actually get the guy for the job?

Frolik was not brought in for the first line. And Hoffman is the absolute last guy that I pony up for

 

[Flames67]

Frolik was not brought in for the first line. And Hoffman is the absolute last guy that I pony up for

Who do you pony up for then? Mark Stone(?); and if so, are the same set of assets offered by CAL close enough?

More importantly, why not Hoffman?

 

[treple13]

Who do you pony up for then? Mark Stone(?); and if so, are the same set of assets offered by CAL close enough?

More importantly, why not Hoffman?

I feel like you're a bit out of the loop. The Flames aren't taking Hoffman for Troy Brouwer at this point (at least I wouldn't).

 

[AKL]

That was a different situation with two teams with different needs.
1. O'Reilly doesn't need to be moved, however, if it's true he's unhappy, and other Front Offices know that, Buffalo won't get the return they want.

Just to clarify, that’s not how that works. Teams are competing with each other, and that competition is what drives the price. Not the fact that he doesn’t want to play in Buffalo anymore.

If St. Louis is in a bidding war for O’Reilly with Carolina, neither team gives a single solitary f*** that he doesn’t want to be in Buffalo. All they care about is making an offer that’s better than the other guy that will ultimately improve their team.

 

[Lunatik]

Who do you pony up for then? Mark Stone(?); and if so, are the same set of assets offered by CAL close enough?

More importantly, why not Hoffman?

If I had to "pony up" I'd be going to UFA route. I would much rather pay an extra million or two on a UFA than give up good assets for a one dimensional winger. I didn't want Hoffman before the allegations regarding his fiance came out, but now that they have, I wouldn't trade him for Brouwer, even if Hoffman was 50% retained.

 

[Pia8988]

That Vegas deal is horrific. Pay through the nose and have to take the boat anchor Ryan.