Speculation: 10 Trade Suggestions from The Score

Scintillating10

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Jun 15, 2012
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Some interesting ideas here... Here's the 10 deals, but the actual post has the rationale listed for each deal as well.

Matchmaker: Projecting new homes for this summer's top 10 trade candidates

To Vegas - Erik Karlsson (extended), Bobby Ryan
To Ottawa - 2019 1st, Alex Tuch, Cody Glass, Nicolas Hague

To St. Louis - Ryan O'Reilly
To Buffalo - 2018 1st (Winnipeg's), Robert Thomas, Vince Dunn

To Minnesota - Phil Kessel
To Pittsburgh - Jason Zucker, Kirill Kaprizov

To Florida - Max Pacioretty (extended)
To Montreal - 2018 1st, Nick Bjugstad

To Los Angeles - Jeff Skinner (extended)
To Carolina - 2018 1st, Alex Iafallo

To Calgary - Mike Hoffman
To Ottawa - 2020 2nd, Sam Bennett, Rasmus Andersson

To Chicago - Justin Faulk, Scott Darling
To Carolina - 2018 1st (Nashville's), Marian Hossa, Chad Krys

To Toronto - Chris Tanev
To Vancouver - 2018 1st, Josh Leivo, Connor Carrick

To Arizona - Tyler Johnson
To Tampa Bay - 2019 2nd, Pierre-Olivier Joseph

To NY Islanders - Philipp Grubauer (RFA)
To Washington - 2018 1st (Calgary's)
Not overly familiar with Bjugstad but Montreal likely to take that trade
 

Ivan13

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nowhere did I say Dunn was a top pairing guy, he played a lot on the 2nd unit as a rookie and played really well. He is already a second pairing guy with room to grow, any minutes he is not here that means more ice time for the rapidly declining Jaybo, we cannot afford that

You didn't say he is a top pairing D? How about the bolded below?

The deal was not for RoR for Thomas but ALSO a 2nd year #2 defenseman and a 1st AND I really like RoR he is a legit #1 center but he is nowhere close to a franchise center. Its kind of telling when EVERY blues fan hates the trade and EVERY Sabers fans wants to do it.....

P.S. Just so we are clear, this in no means takes anything away from RoR, hes really good
 

sfvega

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Apr 20, 2015
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You didn't say he is a top pairing D? How about the bolded below?

I thought everyone took #2 as 2nd line. Usually when someone means top pairing defenseman, they would say top pairing defenseman, like you just did. For instance, when people talked down Parayko, they always called him a #2 defenseman, despite the fact that he never plays 1st line.
 

Ivan13

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I thought everyone took #2 as 2nd line. Usually when someone means top pairing defenseman, they would say top pairing defenseman, like you just did. For instance, when people talked down Parayko, they always called him a #2 defenseman, despite the fact that he never plays 1st line.
#2 means a number 2 D, as in not good enough to be a #1, but a top pairing D nonetheless.
 

Beezeral

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Mar 1, 2010
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Panthers pay a higher price for the 30 year old patches the the kings do for the 26 year old skinner? Wat?
 

HoweHullOrr

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Rants Mulliniks

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I like the Van/Tor trade, but Tor fans will not start talking about Tanevs injuries and that he isn't even worth a 2nd, etc.

I'm a Leaf fan and I'd be fine with that. Yes injuries are a concern but basically no roster players for a good d-man.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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Is Bergeron an elite 1C? How about Toews? Because, IMHO, the biggest thing that separates O'Reilly from those guys is that he's been stuck on bad teams most of his career.

Buffalo has all the balls in its court with O'Reilly.
- There are a bunch of teams looking for centers.
- There are 2 good centers who might move this summer.
- As soon as Tavares signs somewhere, and especially if he re-signs in NYI, all of those teams looking for help down the middle are going to be competing against each other for O'Reilly.
- O'Reilly does not have any restrictive trade clauses in his contract.
- He's in his prime (27) and locked up for another 5 years. Moreover, as a guy who neither relies on footspeed nor physicality, his game should age well. There's no reason to believe him leaving his athletic prime in his 30s will hurt his effectiveness in any meaningful way. See, e.g., Pavelski.
- Buffalo has absolutely no pressing need, or even want, to move him. Since we won the lottery and no longer have to wonder where the hell we're getting a top tier young defenseman from, Buffalo's real concern is just finding quality support players to augment our core (Eichel, Dahlin, Risto, ROR, Mittelstadt, and Reinhart). There are at least to roads to accomplishing that: (1) not making any kind of big splash move at all, and instead looking to pry out some solid players from cap crunched teams (e.g., Winnipeg, Tampa) and add quality depth via FA; or (2) getting one of those teams desperate for a C to pay through the nose for ROR and replace our 1 great player with several good ones. If ROR is going, it has to be because the trade makes Buffalo a better team. The risk with prospects isn't just that they only make us better later --- and, make no mistake, the Sabres are absolutely trying to get better NOW --- it's that they may never make us better at all. Main pieces coming back would have to be young NHL players or A-level prospects who are pretty safe bets.

TL;DR: If I'm Botterill this summer, you either give me exactly what I want, or I keep my player. If no one wants to pay that price, fine. Like I said, I keep my player, and I'm happy with that.

First Bold: You can't really compare Ryan O'Reilly to Toews or Bergeron. O'Reilly isn't in that category. Toews and Bergeron have both been consistently in the top 5 of Selke voting and All-Stars. Ryan O'Reilly has not, the highest he's finished was 6th in the Selke, but almost every other season, he's been 11 or below. He's not been a consistent All-Star, and he has no Cup ring. Toews is also a Conn Smythe winner. Again, I'm sorry, but you can't compare him to those players. At least, not yet.

Second Bold: Not every team will be competing for him. Those who miss out on Tavares will not all shift to O'Reilly. Some will look at Stastny or Bozak. Others will probably look at other teams with other needs that they match up with better.

Third Bold: As I've stated before in other posts, he may be locked up for 5 more years through his prime, but the cost of that is a little steep currently. This isn't a team signing a UFA contract where you typically have to overpay, he's overpaid already. If another team is willing to take on that contract while giving up a steep price, great, I hope they do. I argued that the Blues shouldn't.

Fourth Bold: The Blues could absolutely meet your need for a good supporting cast around them. Thomas and Dunn aren't supporting cast type players, they are good, core players. Supporting cast would be wingers and top 6 defensemen. You'd be expecting a quantity for quality type package. I mean, hell, the Blues could trade Buffalo 3 or 4 quality supporting cast players as you say and the pick if that's one of the things Buffalo would want out of an O'Reilly trade. I think the Blues would absolutely part with wingers like Kostin, Thompson, Blais, Schmaltz, Walman, etc.

I wouldn't necessarily rely on sniping other cap strapped teams though, especially with the cap going up. Buffalo's core shouldn't include O'Reilly, mainly because when the rest is pushing into their prime, O'Reilly will be leaving his. Everyone else you listed in the core is at least 4 years younger than O'Reilly. Teams like Buffalo with a young core like that get better by moving O'Reilly to bring in, as you said, other good SUPPORTING cast players, and sign or trade for good veterans to help the young guys.

Also, getting a team to pay through the nose for 1 player is how you start to lose trade partners. Fleecing happens because GMs make bad, irrational decisions, but most of the time, if a GM is constantly asking for the moon for players with little give or negotiation, he'll quickly find himself without trade partners when he needs it.

O'Reilly is an excellent player, but he's also the perfect piece for Buffalo to trade if they want to get better faster because he'd bring the highest return of your "supporting" cast of players. Blues fans just disagree on the steep price.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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Just to clarify, that’s not how that works. Teams are competing with each other, and that competition is what drives the price. Not the fact that he doesn’t want to play in Buffalo anymore.

If St. Louis is in a bidding war for O’Reilly with Carolina, neither team gives a single solitary **** that he doesn’t want to be in Buffalo. All they care about is making an offer that’s better than the other guy that will ultimately improve their team.

They do though. In an actual bidding war, yes, teams will try to up the ante but will the price still end up being the same? I don't think it will. Maybe it would drive the price into the range the team with the disgruntled player originally wanted, but I would doubt it. You see it quite often in sports when it comes out a player is unhappy or has requested a trade. Typically, the price is less than what everyone else thought. Example: Sergachev for Drouin. I bet the original asks and deals being discussed were a bit higher before the entire situation played out. Sergachev is still a good return, but again, I think the original returns were probably better.
 

AKL

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They do though. In an actual bidding war, yes, teams will try to up the ante but will the price still end up being the same? I don't think it will. Maybe it would drive the price into the range the team with the disgruntled player originally wanted, but I would doubt it. You see it quite often in sports when it comes out a player is unhappy or has requested a trade. Typically, the price is less than what everyone else thought. Example: Sergachev for Drouin. I bet the original asks and deals being discussed were a bit higher before the entire situation played out. Sergachev is still a good return, but again, I think the original returns were probably better.

Drouins issues were far beyond just not wanting to play there and Tampa was in a different situation than Buffalo. The fact that O’Reilly doesn’t want to be in Buffalo anymore will not hurt his value at all.
 

tsujimoto74

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May 28, 2012
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First Bold: You can't really compare Ryan O'Reilly to Toews or Bergeron. O'Reilly isn't in that category. Toews and Bergeron have both been consistently in the top 5 of Selke voting and All-Stars. Ryan O'Reilly has not, the highest he's finished was 6th in the Selke, but almost every other season, he's been 11 or below. He's not been a consistent All-Star, and he has no Cup ring. Toews is also a Conn Smythe winner. Again, I'm sorry, but you can't compare him to those players. At least, not yet.

Second Bold: Not every team will be competing for him. Those who miss out on Tavares will not all shift to O'Reilly. Some will look at Stastny or Bozak. Others will probably look at other teams with other needs that they match up with better.

Third Bold: As I've stated before in other posts, he may be locked up for 5 more years through his prime, but the cost of that is a little steep currently. This isn't a team signing a UFA contract where you typically have to overpay, he's overpaid already. If another team is willing to take on that contract while giving up a steep price, great, I hope they do. I argued that the Blues shouldn't.

Fourth Bold: The Blues could absolutely meet your need for a good supporting cast around them. Thomas and Dunn aren't supporting cast type players, they are good, core players. Supporting cast would be wingers and top 6 defensemen. You'd be expecting a quantity for quality type package. I mean, hell, the Blues could trade Buffalo 3 or 4 quality supporting cast players as you say and the pick if that's one of the things Buffalo would want out of an O'Reilly trade. I think the Blues would absolutely part with wingers like Kostin, Thompson, Blais, Schmaltz, Walman, etc.

I wouldn't necessarily rely on sniping other cap strapped teams though, especially with the cap going up. Buffalo's core shouldn't include O'Reilly, mainly because when the rest is pushing into their prime, O'Reilly will be leaving his. Everyone else you listed in the core is at least 4 years younger than O'Reilly. Teams like Buffalo with a young core like that get better by moving O'Reilly to bring in, as you said, other good SUPPORTING cast players, and sign or trade for good veterans to help the young guys.

Also, getting a team to pay through the nose for 1 player is how you start to lose trade partners. Fleecing happens because GMs make bad, irrational decisions, but most of the time, if a GM is constantly asking for the moon for players with little give or negotiation, he'll quickly find himself without trade partners when he needs it.

O'Reilly is an excellent player, but he's also the perfect piece for Buffalo to trade if they want to get better faster because he'd bring the highest return of your "supporting" cast of players. Blues fans just disagree on the steep price.

1) I can and did. If you bother to dig into the numbers, they bear that out. O'Reilly is one of the league's premier two-way centers. He's just a bit overlooked because he hasn't been on good teams.

2) All the teams who want a good center will be. Stastny and Bozak don't hold a candle to ROR.

3) O'Reilly at 7.5 is fair market value. We live in a world where Toews makes 10.5, Draisaitl makes 8.5 (on a mostly RFA-years contract), and Evander freaking Kane just got 7x7. And with the cap going up, that deal only looks better going forward.

4) You're missing my point completely. It's obviously far preferable to add non-core pieces without trading away highly valuable core pieces. If you want to pry ROR out of Buffalo, you need to give the Sabres a reason to think that's a better idea than our other available options. Your B prospects aren't accomplishing that. Hell, Buffalo has its own B prospects already, if we want to go the route of pretending all those guys pan out to their potential and will eventually solve the Sabres' woes. Why should the Sabres give you ROR for more of those guys when the kind of middling NHL players the Sabres need are moved every year for far inferior assets, and UFA is right around the corner?

5) Again, there's no reason to expect ROR's game to drop off with age, and every team has players who are more than 3 years apart from each other in age. I see what you're trying to do, but the things you think are problems for Buffalo aren't actually.

6) Cool. Don't care. Again, if I'm Botterill, you give me exactly what I want, or I'm more than happy to keep my player. If someone wants to be mad because we didn't discount a core player for them, so be it..I think, somehow, I'll find a way to still sleep at night.

Also, I'm not sure where you pulled the idea that ROR wants out from. The extent of his public comments are that he's wants to be a Sabre and wants to be part of the solution here in Buffalo.
 

bobg1

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I like the Van/Tor trade, but Tor fans will not start talking about Tanevs injuries and that he isn't even worth a 2nd, etc.
Well when make a trade involving a 1st round pick you need some confidence that player is going to play a lot
 

ole ole

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1 I think its too much from Vegas to give up for Karlsson if there taking on Ryan too. Id change Glass to someone further down their prospect depth and is probably a ok trade

2 Quantity for quality here doesnt add up. Either the Blues add more or add a much better piece then given

3 Meh

4 Montreal should only get a 2nd from Florida, and even that...

5 LA adds

6 Seems reasonable for both Flames and Sens

7 Cant see Carolinas motivation to move Faulk for a late 1st and a cap dump

8 Benning has made some bad trades but cant see the Canucks getting so little from the Leafs for a stud like Tanev. Theyd have to ask for at MINIMUM a top prospect which Toronto lacks or a 2nd as well

9 Tampa would be robbing Arizona. Joseph will be an absolute stud, and Im a fan of Johnson just think its not in Arizonas interest to do this

10 Big steal for the Caps if they can get a good 1st for a backup. Huge steal
:huh: Patches is easily > Tanev but you have Tanev pegged as some kind of superstar.:laugh:
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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1) I can and did. If you bother to dig into the numbers, they bear that out. O'Reilly is one of the league's premier two-way centers. He's just a bit overlooked because he hasn't been on good teams.

2) All the teams who want a good center will be. Stastny and Bozak don't hold a candle to ROR.

3) O'Reilly at 7.5 is fair market value. We live in a world where Toews makes 10.5, Draisaitl makes 8.5 (on a mostly RFA-years contract), and Evander freaking Kane just got 7x7. And with the cap going up, that deal only looks better going forward.

4) You're missing my point completely. It's obviously far preferable to add non-core pieces without trading away highly valuable core pieces. If you want to pry ROR out of Buffalo, you need to give the Sabres a reason to think that's a better idea than our other available options. Your B prospects aren't accomplishing that. Hell, Buffalo has its own B prospects already, if we want to go the route of pretending all those guys pan out to their potential and will eventually solve the Sabres' woes. Why should the Sabres give you ROR for more of those guys when the kind of middling NHL players the Sabres need are moved every year for far inferior assets, and UFA is right around the corner?

5) Again, there's no reason to expect ROR's game to drop off with age, and every team has players who are more than 3 years apart from each other in age. I see what you're trying to do, but the things you think are problems for Buffalo aren't actually.

6) Cool. Don't care. Again, if I'm Botterill, you give me exactly what I want, or I'm more than happy to keep my player. If someone wants to be mad because we didn't discount a core player for them, so be it..I think, somehow, I'll find a way to still sleep at night.

Also, I'm not sure where you pulled the idea that ROR wants out from. The extent of his public comments are that he's wants to be a Sabre and wants to be part of the solution here in Buffalo.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree because what numbers bear out that O'Reilly is on par or comparable to Bergeron and Toews? I gave you exact awards each has won or how close they've come and where O'Reilly stood in that voting, mainly the Selke based on how good a defensive forward you're proclaiming O'Reilly to be.

Stastny is an O'Reilly who's 4 months older than him. They are virtually the same player. O'Reilly's a little better at this point, but Stastny is also on the downside of his career. Who do you think helped develop O'Reilly in Colorado? Bozak may not be as good, but a team won't have to pay anything more than cash instead of a ridiculous asking price.

O'Reilly is not fair market value. His fair market value is actually about a million to two million less. Toews makes 10.5 because of 3 Cup rings, a Conn Smythe, and multiple Selke nominations. Toews is paid 10.5 because of being a winner. Draisaitl and Kane got ridiculous contracts basically because Chiarelli and Wilson are crazy. I won't disagree that in another year or two that his contract will look very friendly, but when it was signed and now, it's high.

I'm not missing your point at all. I understand wanting another team's top prospects, but I merely filled in two different position prospects for a center one. That doesn't make them B prospects. Blais, Foley, etc, those are B prospects. Thompson and Kostin are top level, but they are wingers.

You do understand how trades and deals work right? No GM gets exactly what they want. You start with a higher offer and meet somewhere in the middle. If Botterill approaches all negotiations with give me what I want or I walk, then like I said, he won't find many trade partners. Should he hold out for the best deal possible for his player, absolutely, but you also have to know what the best deal is, and that's hard. Yzerman may have had better offeres for Drouin, and he may not have. We'll never know. But he definitely held onto Drouin until he got something he liked. Botterill could ask for a 1st, a top C prospect and a potential top 4 D. If no team pays that, then you keep your player until you can get something close. However, you're now running the risk of him getting hurt or his game going down.

I will have to go back and look for where I saw the article talking about O'Reilly not being happy in Buffalo. Many hockey players say they want to stick it out with a team while quietly wanting to move on. I usually take their public comments with a grain of salt.
 

rabi

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Dominicr

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1) I can and did. If you bother to dig into the numbers, they bear that out. O'Reilly is one of the league's premier two-way centers. He's just a bit overlooked because he hasn't been on good teams.

2) All the teams who want a good center will be. Stastny and Bozak don't hold a candle to ROR.

3) O'Reilly at 7.5 is fair market value. We live in a world where Toews makes 10.5, Draisaitl makes 8.5 (on a mostly RFA-years contract), and Evander freaking Kane just got 7x7. And with the cap going up, that deal only looks better going forward.

4) You're missing my point completely. It's obviously far preferable to add non-core pieces without trading away highly valuable core pieces. If you want to pry ROR out of Buffalo, you need to give the Sabres a reason to think that's a better idea than our other available options. Your B prospects aren't accomplishing that. Hell, Buffalo has its own B prospects already, if we want to go the route of pretending all those guys pan out to their potential and will eventually solve the Sabres' woes. Why should the Sabres give you ROR for more of those guys when the kind of middling NHL players the Sabres need are moved every year for far inferior assets, and UFA is right around the corner?

5) Again, there's no reason to expect ROR's game to drop off with age, and every team has players who are more than 3 years apart from each other in age. I see what you're trying to do, but the things you think are problems for Buffalo aren't actually.

6) Cool. Don't care. Again, if I'm Botterill, you give me exactly what I want, or I'm more than happy to keep my player. If someone wants to be mad because we didn't discount a core player for them, so be it..I think, somehow, I'll find a way to still sleep at night.

Also, I'm not sure where you pulled the idea that ROR wants out from. The extent of his public comments are that he's wants to be a Sabre and wants to be part of the solution here in Buffalo.

Then you keep ROR and get another lottery pick and don’t make your team better while your young core gets a year older. No gm in their right mind would give up that kind of package for ROR when schenn just proved he can play 1c. The blues don’t need a 1c because of schenns recent play. They need an elite 1c making schenn an extremely high end 2c.
 

ChuckLefley

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Jan 5, 2016
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Wait, there is no reason to expect RORs game to drop off with age?!?! I didn’t realize he was Gordie Howe!

When it comes to what we are supposed to trade, the Blues aren’t trading our top D prospect (who is already a solid NHL player after his first season) and our best center prospect since Doug Gilmour. The only way anyone is getting that, plus a first, from the Blues is if it’s for McDavid or the best goalie in the league. Definitely not for a guy who has hit 60+ points in three of his nine seasons. (Despite the person claiming he is a regular 60-65 point guy)
 

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